What difference btw coral chip and coral sand?

[marcvelous]

Hi All,

Have a tank for slightly more than two weeks already. Still left it in the cycling stage even though NH4 is zero and NO2 is 0.3mg/l.

Went to a LFS with a friend last week and managed to talk to the guy about my high nitrate problem.

The guy at the shop recommended that I use some coral sand. Novice and gu-gu me bought two bags and put in my sump. Actually they look like coral chips to me but since I don't know anything so just bought.

My questions:

1. is it true that coral sand help GET RID of nitrate problem while coral chip ADD to it?

2. LFS also recommended that I buy a bottle of AZ-NO3. Anyone heard of this product? Is it any good?

3. What is the difference between coral chip and coral sand?

4. I have 4 rocks of macro-algae in my sump/refrigium. What other ways to get rid of nitrate naturally?

5. How will I know when is it absolutely safe to put in fishes and corals?

[Cedric]

Maybe I can try to help.

1. is it true that coral sand help GET RID of nitrate problem while coral chip ADD to it?

No it is not true. Unless you are trying to create a dsb (deep sand bed) which the few bags you bought will not be enough.

2. LFS also recommended that I buy a bottle of AZ-NO3. Anyone heard of this product? Is it any good?

Yes, the good news is AZ-NO3 works. The flip side is that you must have a good skimmer to go with it as AZ-NO3 extracts the nitrate out of water and requires a skimmer to export it out.

3. What is the difference between coral chip and coral sand?

Can I say that coral sand is crushed coral chips? Any gurus can correct me.

4. I have 4 rocks of macro-algae in my sump/refrigium. What other ways to get rid of nitrate naturally?

Naturally? I can think of a few, algae scruber, dsb, refugium and lastly but not naturally is to use a denitrator. Oh yeah, water change? But I dun quite believe water change is good enough to remove NO3.

5. How will I know when is it absolutely safe to put in fishes and corals?

After you have completed cycling your water. This takes about 3 weeks or more. You can confirm it by testing your water for NH3/NH4, NO2 which should all read zero. NO3 are better tolerated by fishes than corals.

[SpiderOne]

coral sand = smashed up coral chips

[Achilles Tang]

My questions:

1. is it true that coral sand help GET RID of nitrate problem while coral chip ADD to it?

Sand or coral chips do not by themselves remove or add nitrates to water. Its how you use it. A DSB of coral chips will trap detritus, and when it rots... it adds to the nitrate levels. A thin layer of sand will not enable enough anaerobic bacteria to grow in it to process NO3.

2. LFS also recommended that I buy a bottle of AZ-NO3. Anyone heard of this product? Is it any good?

Good. You should use the search function in SRC more often. The answers are all there.

3. What is the difference between coral chip and coral sand?

Coral chips are small fragments of coral branches/skeletons. Coral sand is more finely eroded fragments of coral branches/skeleton. They have become that small due to natural erosion or having been crunched down into smaller particles due to the action of coral-eating fish like bumphead parrotfish etc. These fish are sand-makers.....

4. I have 4 rocks of macro-algae in my sump/refrigium. What other ways to get rid of nitrate naturally?

DSB & usage of large quantities of quality LR.

5. How will I know when is it absolutely safe to put in fishes and corals?

Realistically: You will get the answer when you read up & understand how the nitrogen cycle works, what goes into saltwater composition, what's the difference between the many ways of setting up a marine tank, understanding the pros and cons of each and then applying the knowledge. Do read up the newbie links in the New to the Hobby forum.

Simply: test your water.

[marcvelous]

Hi Cedric and All,

I currently have a 5" DSB of grade 0 sand and 45 kg of live rocks in my main tank.

In my refrigium, I have a 6" DSB with the 4 rocks of marco-algae that I mentioned. The coral sand/chips that I bought is placed in the first section of my sump where the overflow first contacts. In fact, with the two bags of the sand/chips that I bought, I am able to get a 5" thick bed of sand/chips.

(Can anyone tell by the picture if I have coral sand or chips? )

Are all these sufficient to help my nitrate problem?

Sorry for my last question... shot it off without much thinking. I have been told that I can put fishes in already coz my NH4 = 0 and NO2 is 0.3.

Just wanted assurance so that my pets-to-be don't suffer.

No offense meant but I think I am quite right to say that with sufficient time, all questions pertaining to this hobby will have been covered by the members here. If asking questions that have already been answered is frowned upon , what is the purposes of setting up a forum? Might as well start a knowledge base a.k.a. Microsoft with all the answers!

Will we end up with a forum that no ones asks and none answers coz of this "use-the-search-engine" policy or will this site evolve into a knowledge base with people only talking about ######, politics and objectionable subjects in the Kopi-Tiam? Was that why the setting up of an Adults-Only section is needed? Or wanted?

I don't know that 's why I ask. Anyone who answers my questions are already superior to me (in knowledge). No flames and no need to put me down.

I kow-tow to all of you first

[weileong]

If NO2 is not 0 means cycling not over and not recommended to add in LS at this moment. I did not add in LS in my tank even when the NO2 drop to 0.01, I waited one more week after it dropped to zero then I started slowly to add LS.

[marcvelous]

most people only talk about NH4 and NO2 being zero as the point where the cycling stage is over.

If NO3 is such a big problem and difficult to remove, why isn't it considered part of the cycling stage?

[Achilles Tang]

Marc,

NO2 must be undetectable... as even minute amounts are toxic to sensitive organisms.

Interesting question abt the NO3. A complete nitrogen cycle will include the NO3 being processed into harmless nitrogen gas.

In practice, NO3 signals the end of the 'dangerous' stages of the cycling period... as a byproduct of the nitrification part. In terms of priority... nitrates is less toxic than ammonia & NO2. But once it builds up... it becomes a pain in the reefer's side as it is more difficult to deal with as opposed to ammonia & NO2 being dealt with once the cycling stage is over.

BTW, to answer you about your view:

No offense meant but I think I am quite right to say that with sufficient time, all questions pertaining to this hobby will have been covered by the members here. If asking questions that have already been answered is frowned upon  , what is the purposes of setting up a forum? Might as well start a knowledge base a.k.a. Microsoft with all the answers!

Sorry if my answer seemed to imply that your question about 'when it is safe to put fish & corals in'... could not have been necessary to ask if you had studied about the nitrogen cycle in a marine tank and understood logically the process... and answered your own question.

It's like asking 'when is it safe to cross the road'. Although a simple answer may be given like 'when there is no traffic'... it does reflect that you have little knowledge about road conditions, basic safety rules, common road hazards etc.

To do you service, for someone else to explain what the markings on the roads are, what the green, amber & red lights mean, how cars move & are controlled by street rules, what happens when a car hits human flesh, what injuries can happen, how to avoid being caught in that situation... pls note that it does take a lot of time and effort.

Put it in this hobby scenario...multiply that by 1000 times, the same basic questions being asked over and over again... when all a newbie needs to do is to pick up a good book and study or even to surf back a few pages and do a search/use the search function to zoom into threads where these questions have been asked over and over again...or read the PINNED UP links for newbies to read the FAQs.... I am sure you must be wondering why all the experienced reefers here are not bothering to answer these sort of questions... and I bother to...

However, if your question was 'if I was driving and turning right at a junction, does the oncoming car that is turning left, wait for me or he has the right of way'... it would indicate that you are aware of basic traffic rules and only wish to clarify something that is more intermediate rather than simple basics... you can be sure that the more experienced ones will take the trouble to explain.

Hope you know what I am driving at... this is not just meant for you... but for the increasing number of newbies into this hobby that seemed to be rushing in, setting up their tanks, and THEN asking questions later. By which time, it may be too late to undo mistakes.

Was it wrong for me to imply that a little research is necessary in this hobby... or should I entertain Basic Theory 101 questions on a regular basis?

It can be rather tiring. But I set up this website to teach & share... to inspire learning rather than encourage spoonfeeding... to comprehend rather than route-learn.... to understand, rather than to blindly follow.... get my drift?

Don't take it personally... you are not the first reefer to sometimes get an impatient jab from me.... usually when I see a rise in basic questions have asked and I have to answer them all over again.

Will we end up with a forum that no ones asks and none answers coz of this "use-the-search-engine" policy or will this site evolve into a knowledge base with people only talking about ######, politics and objectionable subjects in the Kopi-Tiam? Was that why the setting up of an Adults-Only section is needed? Or wanted?

God forbid... but I am seriously thinking of seperating all the 'SAME' questions asked repeatedly into respective categories so its MUCH EASIER for newbies to 'search'. In essence, a knowledge base.

If you look at the overseas websites like RC.. you seldom find newbie questions like those asked here in SRC... maybe you can call the westerners more 'learning-inclined' and our local culture... more 'spoon-feed me!'... that disappoints me. Greatly. It turns off serious hobbyists.

You know... this has gotten me thinking.... maybe I should bring it up as a serious issue for debate.

The kopi-tiam section is for shooting off anything... its an offshoot/R&R/relax one corner/talk ###### sing song area. Most websites have such a section for members. Something to talk about besides reefing. Is there an issue?

Whatever it is, pls don't be offended. It's my view.

[marcvelous]

I don't mean to offend and, of course, will take none.

SRC has been of great help and service to me and my new tank and for that, I cannot thank you enough.

Let's just say that using the search engine would have been the more proper and less bothersome to the serious hobbyist.

Then again, we have to consider the different circumstances that we have come into ownership of a tank/system.

I bought my tank 2nd hand setup on the encouragement of my mate.

Unfortunately, during transportation, the main tank cracked and had to be replaced.

Instead of giving up, I bought a brand new tank. Plumbing, washing sand, scouring the LFS for live rocks...

In goes sand, water, live rocks and shrimps for cycling. Tests kits started appearing...

Then, I was advised that the T5s I had were not enough for my 3x1.5x2ft tank. Reached for my wallet again for a 3ft MH light (2x150 + 2 x PL Blue). What?! No place to hang the MH?! $$$ again for a custom made hood ...

Now realised that my new 2-week-old Eheim 1250 (1200l/h) return pump is not powerful enough coz my overflow is "underflowing"... New pump calling out to me

All that and not to mention the "wrong" construction of of my sump tank which warrants that I draw out the water and have it remedied as best as possible (knew this after visiting and talking to many people as well as reading up on tank/sump designs)...

The list goes on and on and on...

All this could have been avoided had I been prudent enough to read up properly BEFORE I even considered the 2nd hand tank. I did NOT and it's my fault.

All I am trying to do is to get quick answers, albeit the lazy way so that I can finally set up my tank the proper and correct way and most importantly, QUICKLY so that I have something to show for it.

If you had remembered my previous posts, my tank is placed in my office. Can you imagine a problematic tank with nothing in it except sand, rocks (even if the scaping is good), water and algae (and until recently, snails).

Flak from my financee about the money (literally wasted getting wrong products) is one thing. Fire from my colleagues about an ugly white elephant is another.

I could have given up on impulse and sold off everything.

I am still holding on... holding onto the belief that help is available and the goal is within sight.

So, to all the serious hobbyists who are annoyed with newbie posts, not everyone likes to asks novice questions and not get any answers or impatiemnt jabs. We have our difficulties

And one thing to bear in mind... newbies may not be any less serious hobbyists. We are simply less informed

for putting up with this long post

[Achilles Tang]

hmmm... well.. that does put certain things into perspective now! At least, I now understand where you're coming from.

You definitely don't fall into that category of newbies then! Should have read your signature more closely too! Heheh.

Maybe it was kinda late when I made that post... I was up till like 4.30 in the morning looking thru the forum.

Since you were 'rushed' into a tank setup.... well... it may be too late to undo things... now that you are under pressure from the people around you to do things fast and right... don't be a hurry to stock up.... as the cycling stage itself will take a month. Rush through it and you will spend more $$ and time rectifying problems. Trust me.... only bad things happen fast in this hobby!

[marcvelous]

I have learnt my lesson dude

Call it baptism by fire or anything similar but it sure ain't easy... All in all, I am glad I have not given up

My NH4 is zero and am now monitoring my NO2 which currently reads 0.3

Am using AZ-NO3 as mentioned to try and quicken things a bit.

Hopefully, when the NO2 is zero, I would be able to put one or two hardy fish to help with the algae and seaweed. I now know to take things slowly and livestock is definitely top of the list!

Can anyone suggest some reef/coral friendly fish that is not territorial or agressive so that I would not have problems introducing other fishes in the future? Am thing of yellow and blue tang to start with, and eventually hope to have some clowns (yes, I really like Finding Nemo).

Thanks

[Achilles Tang]

Hardier tangs like the Yellow Tang & Purple Tang are nice! Avoid the Powder Surgeonfish family. Of course an AT is out of the Question.

Clownfishes - avoid the maroon clowns. They will lose their bright colour & become extremely fierce. The perculas are classic clownfishes with their dancing fins and are docile.

[marcvelous]

Hardier tangs like the Yellow Tang & Purple Tang are nice! Avoid the Powder Surgeonfish family. Of course an AT is out of the Question

Hahahah... I think you are too big to fit in my tank

Clownfishes - avoid the maroon clowns. They will lose their bright colour & become extremely fierce. The perculas are classic clownfishes with their dancing fins and are docile.

Okay!!! At the rate my water parameters are going, NO2 should be zero by end of this week. One yellow and purple/blue (got difference?) tang to go in next week. Observe observe then maybe put an anemone and some (maybe 2 or 3) percula clowns.

My dream is to one day have a mandarin blenny when all of my water parameters are stable and good!

Thanks for the advice!

Peace Be With All