Sump flow modification

[toughdog]

Hi all,

I just purchased a 4 feet tank and I am not happy with default piping.. This is the picture of what it comes from the shop:

The overflow box is on left back side of the tank and has two wholes drilled. One (I think 2 inch) drain and one (I think 1 inch) return. The water from the drain goes one by one from first to last room in the sump where the return pump sits.

Now I would like to change this and have the last sump room (since is the biggest room) transformed into a refugium. For this I am planning to transform the two drilled holes in the overflow both to be drains. The big drain will go in first sump compartment for normal mechanical and chemical filtering, while the second drain (which by default is the return) to be sending water in last sump room to feed the refugium with DSB and Cheato algae.

both first and last room then will overflow in the 3rd sump compartment where the return pump will send the water back to tank to a piping I am planning to plumb outside, at the back of the tank. Here the picture of new water flow:

However, I am not sure if the sump walls are correct configure to allow the water the way I want. I am not too good with fluides physics, and would appreciate any input from reefers who understand this better..

thanks lots

[Solo77]

Hope I got the concept right, if yes, U may face the problem of flooding if there is a power trip and yr return pipe and pump must be big and strong to support yr 2 returns to sump.

[tunicate]

It's a good plan.

Some minor considerations:

(1) Flood Prevention

Sump should have extra capacity to cater for water displacement from main tank during power failure(even if you're planning for 1-way valve.)

During normal operation, water will fill up both left compartments up to the height of the baffle left of your new return pump location. Water will also fill up refugium up to the height of its left baffle. Water level in return pump compartment will fluctuate due to evaporation & water top up. Top up should max out at height of refugium left baffle.

Below blue boxes is your safety capacity which you need to measure & figure out its volume. Let's call this volume A.

The volume of water entering your sump during power outage would be the layer of water from your overflow to the base of your return pipe nozzle. Similarly, you need to measure & figure out its volume. Let's call this volume B. To prevent flood, A needs to be greater than B.

(2) Pre-filter

You generally have 2 choices: filter sock, or filter wool.

For filter wool, you need to position it very high, otherwise it'll be immersed in water, loosing its effectiveness. I'm also not sure if the 1st baffle has sufficient room for overflow over the top when the filter wool gets clogged up.

Filter sock with bracket looks like a safer implementation in this case.

(3) Protein Skimmer

The 2nd compartment is suitable for skimmer deployment & other equipment, but you'll need to see if they will fit in there.

(4) Refugium

You need to install a filter comb on the top of your refugium baffle to keep the chaeto in.

[toughdog]

Excellent tips, I will sure make use of it. Thanks a lot. I will update later, after I do the mods.

tunicate, can I find the comb in LFS shops or I should look at DIY some more?

Solo77, I will use just as much water in the summp to accept entire volume of the overflow in case the pump is out. You are right on the return pipe. Since I have two drains (2 inch and one inch) I think I will install 2 return pumps and 2 return pipes 1 inch each to two corners of the tank

[tunicate]

With regards to filter comb, below are some suggestions from fellow reefers for those who like to DIY.

Otherwise, you can also engage a tank maker to come do one for you.

BTW, remember to leave enough room in the last compartment for a chiller coil, or chiller pump.

[Jameshong]

You can get the over flow comb from Madpetz @ SGD18.00 only.

Here is the link - Over Flow Comb.

[toughdog]

Thanks. I will put a net to cover the two bafles at righ side..

I will put the chiller pump inside third compartment together with return pump, becase I dont want to disturb the 4th compartment (refugium).

As for return pump, uh, uh, uh.

I have just done this test, with the sump plumbed as is. (meaning 2 inch drain, one inch return pipe). I have filled both tank and sump to the max with the pump off. Then I started the return pump. It supposed to pump as much water up that would fill the overflow box at least half (the higher the better to create lower noise by the falling water in the overflow, right?) until finds a balance. That should be my max level in the sump. Well, the two inch drain is sooooooo big that sucks down all the water in overflow instantly, creating a vertigo, such that the sump level doesn't even drop one mm.

the OEM pump is a crap (SOBO?) rated 4000 litters per hour. Since I will have the second drain, will be even more water coming down. So I will replace this SOBO pump with two Eheims, each one on a one inch return pipe. Hope that will push up enough water to have a lower level in the sump and a bit higher level in the overflow.

Also I am looking to put inside the overflow, two durso style stand pipes (1 inch and 2 inch) to cut on the glorious noise that I am hearing right now.. That will also raise the water in overflow since the pipes in there will be higher..

[toughdog]

Thanks James, I will visit MadPetz asap

Seems to be a good shop!

[tunicate]

Installing ball valves on both big & small drain pipe will help fine tune your return flow. They will also help you shut off the water in case of emergency happening to your sump.

4x2x2.5 gives you about 149gal volume. Marine tank typically requires 10 to 20x circulation per hour. Hence, we're looking at 1490gal/hr to 2980gal/hr. This can be the combination of return flow + wavemaker.

[xaine]

In personal preference, I would rather swap the sump around. Having the pump have a straight route up rather than the 2 90deg joints. Having the 2 joints adds loss quite a little. As the overflow pipe is much larger, you can afford to have the 2 90deg joints for the downflow instead. Just a thought.

[tunicate]

Installing ball valves on both big & small drain pipe will help fine tune your return flow....

Sorry about the confusion. Should have been:

"...will help fine tune your return drain flow...."

[toughdog]

Thanks guys,

I will keep the sump in position. I will have the two drains as planned one in first (filter room) and one in last (refugium) room. I measured the drains and they are 2 inch and 3/4inch. I will have ball valve on them eventually. Before that, I will be having standing durso pipes for each, in the overflow. Just got the materials for that. That will increase the watervolume in the overflow to the hight of the dursos and water fallin in overflow box will only fall few inch for less noise and bubbles.

For the return, I will have 2 pumps Eheim 1262, with a total 1800GPH, that's more than 10X the volume. I can transfer my powerheads from my old tank if not enough.

Lastly, the two one inch returns will raise above the tank and form a closed loop with T in each corner for distributed/messed water circulation.. can't wait for the weekend to start on it

Tunicate, if you reed, I need your approval

[toughdog]

I can't find a decent PVC pipes shop. Homely doesnt keep PVC pipes. Found a small uncle shop with pipes full of oil and rust in Ubi.. But would be great to find alternative shops with more choices in connectors, reductores, Ts, corners, valves, etc..

Any recommendation?

[tunicate]

Ooi, don't say "approval" lah. Make me paiseh only.

Every setup is unique. I also learn new stuff as I read your posting. We learn together.

[tunicate]

SUN HEE HARDWARE

Blk 354 Clementi Avenue 2 #01-239 S'pore 120354

Tel: 67771788

http://www.streetdirectory.com/asia_travel/travel/travel_id_3448/travel_site_7758/

I got all my pipe fittings there.

[xaine]

If you are in Ubi area, then Hai Cheong Plastics @ Paya Ubi Ind Park. That's where I go to get all I need to make my overflow pipe.