No sand bed and water changes ?

[trevy]

I was surprised when I went to my friend house and saw his tank without sand bed. This goes for the sump tank too. Just coral chips in the sump tank. He told me that was from a lfs advice and the guy also told him need not change water. Is that possible for the livestocks to stay long ?

[andysho]

i never believe in no need to change water kekeke

just like as good as dun no need to bath

just imagine putting one person in a tank with dirty water

i doubt can survive long

unless we have a tank like the sea whereby everything is natural then we dun need to change tank water

[alanseah]

I was surprised when I went to my friend house and saw his tank without sand bed. This goes for the sump tank too. Just coral chips in the sump tank. He told me that was from a lfs advice and the guy also told him need not change water. Is that possible for the livestocks to stay long ?

then ask your fren to keep it this way for a few months to half a yr..

and guess what u see... dead fish... whole tank become ghost tank..

lolz...

anyway yup i did read be4 about changing your tank water once a yr... but that mean u have to add alot of chemical into your tank.. and provide your tank is big.. and i really mean big...

lastly without sand.. your cycle wont work.. and u can see green very soon...

[andysho]

yep there is no short cut to reefkeeping~~

instead it will become short cut to corals graveyard

so best ask your friends to add in sandbed and change 10 to 20 percent of water every week

some LFS shops always give short cut advise so that the more livestock die ..the more will buy from him and then can earn more $$$ esp those luo han turn marine shops...

kkekee

[alanseah]

plus one word in advise.. dont believe too much in what shop ppls say..

some r except and gd.. but some just dont know anyrthing about reef.. all they know is earn money..

noone open a shop just for hobby seek.. end of the day money is the key for their shop to continue..

[arcanehacker]

....

lastly without sand.. your cycle wont work.. and u can see green very soon...

can I ask why is it that without sand, the water will turn green?

[alanseah]

can I ask why is it that without sand, the water will turn green?

cause the gas exchange wont work...

and this is what alot of ppls call cycle...

and thus alge will grow..and water become toxic..

well LR do help.. u forgot about those warm in the sand that help to break down waste and convert all those harmful gas to harmless gas..

go read more on the book... this is the basic u need to know about reefing be4 u start reef...

[andysho]

i hate green algae esp hair algae kekekeke

there is where the time where lawn blenny come in ugly yet

effective kekekekek

reefkeeping need time and money and knowledge in order to keep~~~

if try to skip this and that in the end, only end up wasting money or like this

[trevy]

Called my friend and asked him how is his tank. So far so good without any dead livestocks. Oh yes, he told me that there are many tiny bubbles forming on the bottom of the tank. Is that nitrogen gas bubbles ? Is it is, meaning the cycle is working and nitrate is being converted to nitrogen.

[andysho]

so far so good..hope so for later part...if can just dun put this and that for reef tank...then i think we all guys in src no need to spent so much $$$ on equipment liao

so better advise your friend to put in whatever are needed ,dun wait until one morning wake up and see all his corals melting..then it will be too late, even God cant help

[weisoon]

Trevy,

Your friend's tank is running on Berlin system.

[Golden Tooth]

The Berlin method takes advantage of LRs and PS. Lots of LRs n good PS to be successful. Abt the no water change

[AlfaRomeo]

A lot of reefers in the US is also going for bare-bottom tanks after DSB crashes.. talk about 1 extreme to another..

[arcanehacker]

IMO, doing without sandbed can be done. IT IS NOT a necessity.. If it is, people would have included it in their reviews, suggestions, manuals, etc. The problem now is that I do not see sandbed included in during or after the cycle.

I'm sure there are many who tried without sandbed and succeed.

Maybe as alanseah has mentioned about gas exchange and such, I believe it would be only minimal compared to the live rocks and those marcaroni stuff you put in your filters. If SB is really advantages, why do the always mention LR instead? and rare mentions about SB?

Of course, I can't imagine how someone can have a reef aquarium (corals, anemone and stuff) without SB. How to place all those stuff?

[alanseah]

well i do encounter one without SB or hardly half an inch thick SB...

it work and running.. cause it got alot of LR in it...

but the problem he encounter.. alot of alge... so he can oly feed his fish once a week if more.. alge will grow and out of control...

just my point of view.. as I have read quite a num of reef book from uk and all mention the use of SB and how gas exchange work in it..

[andysho]

i still think putting sandbed in a tank is better. yes some do really succeed by not using sandbed...

by putting sandbed into your tank will make your fishes feel more at home..dun big sea or coral reef have sand too.of course we cant duplicate nature 100 percent

my point is that if we keep those livestock we should make them feel more close to nature..i dun think any living thing on this planet earth will not want to live as close to as its natural world

I strongy believe when fishes stay in a tank which is more closer to its natural home..it will be more healthy

[alanseah]

whichever ppls prefer...

but just my 2 cent view.. how expensive can a SB cost u.. lolz... it's not as if u r saving from buying a chiller.. which of coz cost u alot.. then u dont want to buy i can understand..

SB.. haiz.. how much can u save from not using it...

anyway it make your tank more nature and look nice too..

dont forget about those animal that need SB.. animal like star fish

[arcanehacker]

well i do encounter one without SB or hardly half an inch thick SB...

it work and running.. cause it got alot of LR in it...

but the problem he encounter.. alot of alge... so he can oly feed his fish once a week if more.. alge will grow and out of control...

just my point of view.. as I have read quite a num of reef book from uk and all mention the use of SB and how gas exchange work in it..

I can't really relate the algae problem with SBs? I've seen so many tanks with SB and really serious algae problems. What's worst is that algae against the glass in the SB is a real problem, esp if its a DBS. How to clear?

SB or without SB, algae will still exist. Its just how we handle or prevent the algaes..

[Achilles Tang]

A berlin system has a few limitations: lesser livestocking & control of overfeeding, more frequent water changes to maintain water quality.

What that LFS taught your friend is probably wrong (not surprisingly).

Those bubbles from the glass bottom is oxygen bubbles from the photosynthesizing microalgae on the glass bottom... NOT nitrogen bubbles... there is no substrate where denitrification takes place in a Berlin system.

For a Berlin system to succeed, you need a very good skimmer as a mechanical filter and LOTS of good quality LR to wortk as the primary biological filtration... and regular vacuuming of the glass bottom to prevent detritus from rotting.

Tanks with a sandbed usually have creatures to process detritus eg. pods and worms. You can add brittlestars and sea cukes to help too.

[andysho]

i was wondering if one day reefkeeping become so advance that it totally control by equip...

by then maybe some dun even think of putting live rocks inside the tank, then what is the point of having a reef tank at home ..where the first reason is to own a bit of coral reef in the home out of this huge reef in the world.without all those natural things..a tank just look no different from a 3D reef screensaver on the monitor

[alanseah]

I can't really relate the algae problem with SBs? I've seen so many tanks with SB and really serious algae problems. What's worst is that algae against the glass in the SB is a real problem, esp if its a DBS. How to clear?

SB or without SB, algae will still exist. Its just how we handle or prevent the algaes..

hmm r u sure those green alge u refering too r those harmful one..

and not the coraline alge...

i think also of ppls.. always think green alge r those harmful one..

[alanseah]

i was wondering if one day reefkeeping become so advance that it totally control by equip...

by then maybe some dun even think of putting live rocks inside the tank, then what is the point of having a reef tank at home ..where the first reason is to own a bit of coral reef in the home out of this huge reef in the world.without all those natural things..a tank just look no different from a 3D reef screensaver on the monitor

hmm..

me not looking at that.. but hoping.. maybe some day where scienist able to grow coral and mass produce then...

then like that we can help prevent the dieing/exist of coral...

help the world.. it's getting too polluted and warmer..

the north pole is melting.. soon we will become water world...

anyway off topic... let's stick back to the same topic and respect the topic owner...

[arcanehacker]

hmm r u sure those green alge u refering too r those harmful one..

and not the coraline alge...

i think also of ppls.. always think green alge r those harmful one..

harmful or not I'm not sure.. All I know is that most are an eye sore.. the less algae the better.

[alanseah]

no u r wrong..

if a tank is totally without alge then it's something wrong...

gd alge r welcome but harmful one.. must be taken care of and noted...

coraline alge r very gd alge.. and it make your tank nice..

and lastly clearing the glass is one of the needed and must job for reefing.. no choice u have to live with it..

i have been cleaning my glass for yrs.. even thought i dont have or hardly any harmful alge in my tank...

but i have alot of coraline alge...

[Golden Tooth]

whichever ppls prefer...

but just my 2 cent view.. how expensive can a SB cost u.. lolz... it's not as if u r saving from buying a chiller.. which of coz cost u alot.. then u dont want to buy i can understand..

SB.. haiz.. how much can u save from not using it...

anyway it make your tank more nature and look nice too..

dont forget about those animal that need SB.. animal like star fish

Like u've said it's own preference.