Weekly Update - 28th Feb to 06th March 2011

[Harlequinmania]

Multicolor angel, flame wrasse, AT , earspot angel, Emperor spotted in CF.. LCK still have one adult Blue angel, queen angel and some juv blue angel .

Saw this fish in CF, anyone can ID this ?

[Ketchup]

I think what lemon says is true... but to a certain extent, i think the divers just whack and get any fishes they can get... only those very rare deep sea species they will probably go hunt for it.

[mopiko]

Well written bro but it's almost impossible to learn and know All the species available. Like I'm more familiar with Tangs than butterflies fish. However, what more disturbing to me is even some experienced Lfs is giving advices saying they are veryeasy to keep. Still remember I was told ornate butterflies eat pellets easily!

I've a suggestion, if there are fellow reefers who willing to list and indicate all the common fishes local lfs bring in, categorize them. Eg easy or difficult , refrain from buying. I can volunteer to lay them out into a small booklet in PDF formats. By doing so, all reefers be able to bring the PDF along and not having to rely on the so call "experts lfs owner" perhaps a token donation to MASS be nice. Let me discuss with goudian as I think it's in line with Mass mission of responsible reefing

Cheerz

relax bro.

you will never be able to prevent the collection. but you can certainly reduce the importing of them to as low as we possibly can.

this is how it works. the collectors will catch all the different fish species (including obligate coralivores) and list them out in a stocklist. this stocklist will be sent to the LFS as an invoice.

The lfs will order the fishes they want from that said invoice, and wether or not they order the obligate coralivores, it does not matter. here's a couple of scenariors.

1) the LFS did not order them, and so they will not come. this is good. but this still does not stop the capture of the fish.

2) the LFS did not order them, but they still come anyway. the supplier just put them in the fish shipment.

i've placed many orders for different LFS before and i understand how the importation work. and the above 2 scenarios i've seen many times.

we can only play our part by not buying them and hope that over the years, the collection will stop.

but to be honest, it all boils down to ignorance. ignorant divers who don't know that these fishes are impossible to keep, and ignorant reefers who don't know that these fishes are impossible to keep. it's up to us ultimately, as the consumer, who have proper education and comprehension to learn and read up on not to buy this fish. it is not the philippine and indonesian collectors fault because most of them are uneducated and cant comprehand english. so expecting them to learn this on the internet or books is not going to work. instead, they will stop catching from experience if the fishes cannot sell. this is where the hobbyist come in.

butterflies are always the unpopular bunch.and if ever they are going to be bought, sadly, i've seen hundreds of reefers jump at the opportunity to buy an ornate butterflyfish when it is deemed impossible. yet, the longnose butterflyfish which is so so easy to keep and reef safe, are always left to die because ppl they are not reef safe and difficult to keep.

the internet is full of resources but the truth is, many people simply too lazy to research before they buy. then they bring the fish home, and then all the complaints start streaming out.

and also global warming will probably kill these fishes faster. at the rate at which our acropora corals are dying, these obligate coralivores will die along with the acropora.

and FYI to any hobbyist reading this. i'm sure some of you may say "oh, so and so manage to get his feeding on pellets and survive 2 months"

well just a reminder. for every one obligate coralivore that survive, hundreds more die. you think it's easy and it's luck but it's not. when you go down into the behaviour and the overall physical adaptation of these species then you will understand that it's impossible.

anyway if it's any consolation, these obligate coral eating butterflies are generally unpopular in the states and japan where people do research before buying. it's only in asian countries that people don't do research and generally buy for fun. perhaps because it's so cheap here that people take forgranted. and these butterflies are very abundant and common in the wild.

ok sorry for the off topic. cheers and if i offended anyone in my speech, well don't be. i'm not targeting any reefers and if anyone here is guilty of buying them before, well, they died right? so learn from there and don't buy them anymore

[yikai]

i agree it's not easy to learn ALL the fishes.

but must learn the impossible to keep one.

[dnsfpl]

lots of fish classified under "impossible" years ago have become possible for experience hobbyist

some species are really "impossible" due to extreme factor, eg diet

im not encouraging pple to buy those "impossible" fish and try their luck thou

cheers

[mopiko]

i've this idea. have 3 icons, green for easy, possible amber for moderate and red for expertise and difficult to keep.

For all the talk, now i'm willing to walk the talk. Lemon, you want help me compile the list? I design a nice little booklet for reefers esp. newbies.

i agree it's not easy to learn ALL the fishes.

but must learn the impossible to keep one.

[yikai]

lots of fish classified under "impossible" years ago have become possible for experience hobbyist

some species are really "impossible" due to extreme factor, eg diet

im not encouraging pple to buy those "impossible" fish and try their luck thou

cheers

Some things were deemed impossible years ago like SPS. But that's because parameters could not be met then. But now they can due to equipment. Same for moorish idol, regal angels and bicolor angel. These fishes years ago were almost impossible to keep, but now are moderately difficult due to new kinds of food offered and new collection techniques.

But what about obligate coral feeding butterflies? There's no fancy equipment to make them survive. There's no food that can sustain them of yet. And they are difficult to feed in the first place. These fishes will forever be impossible no matter how many years we advance in this hobby. Unless someone formulate a new food or manage to trace their metabolism and find what's the vital component missing in their diet that we can articfially supplement. Until then its impossible with only sporadic success known as luck. But even then causlty rate still high.

So know how to differentiate the impossible possible, and the impossible impossible.

Anyway to stay on track, Iwarna Africa shipment tomorrow morning

[yikai]

i've this idea. have 3 icons, green for easy, possible amber for moderate and red for expertise and difficult to keep.

For all the talk, now i'm willing to walk the talk. Lemon, you want help me compile the list? I design a nice little booklet for reefers esp. newbies.

Busy in the afternoon. Give me 1 hr. I'll complete the list at night and send u a pm

[yikai]

Iwarna Africa stocklist to be confirmed later

[mopiko]

Hey lemon

great. No hurry. Lets just have the common fish available in LFS, common name and scientific name. a short description why it's easy, moderate and difficult. Hopefully, with this little "bible", reefers can print it out or download into mobile and bring to LFS.

I've told goudian and need to discuss how we can channel this efforts to support sgreef and MASS.

Busy in the afternoon. Give me 1 hr. I'll complete the list at night and send u a pm

[puppet]

Hey lemon

great. No hurry. Lets just have the common fish available in LFS, common name and scientific name. a short description why it's easy, moderate and difficult. Hopefully, with this little "bible", reefers can print it out or download into mobile and bring to LFS.

I've told goudian and need to discuss how we can channel this efforts to support sgreef and MASS.

iphone version would be really a good one to look into,

i carry my iphone and log onto various website when i go LFSing, just so that i won't buy due to pretty colors and realise i cant keep them for long. But the problem is sometimes, the loading speed is not ideal, or some of these websites only have scientific names at thats all

Back on track,

What's new at ah beng?

[digibee]

iphone version would be really a good one to look into,

i carry my iphone and log onto various website when i go LFSing, just so that i won't buy due to pretty colors and realise i cant keep them for long. But the problem is sometimes, the loading speed is not ideal, or some of these websites only have scientific names at thats all

Back on track,

What's new at ah beng?

I have this on my iPhone -> http://coralidea.com/download3.html

[Gouldian]

Well written bro but it's almost impossible to learn and know All the species available. Like I'm more familiar with Tangs than butterflies fish. However, what more disturbing to me is even some experienced Lfs is giving advices saying they are veryeasy to keep. Still remember I was told ornate butterflies eat pellets easily!

I've a suggestion, if there are fellow reefers who willing to list and indicate all the common fishes local lfs bring in, categorize them. Eg easy or difficult , refrain from buying. I can volunteer to lay them out into a small booklet in PDF formats. By doing so, all reefers be able to bring the PDF along and not having to rely on the so call "experts lfs owner" perhaps a token donation to MASS be nice. Let me discuss with goudian as I think it's in line with Mass mission of responsible reefing

Cheerz

Joe, I am all for it, lets discuss this in details.

[Ketchup]

mopiko.. like what digibee mentioned, u should check out coralidea and fishidea.

[kuay5]

are there still any large mystery wrasses left in CF?

[CFOh]

are there still any large mystery wrasses left in CF?

Should have... Saw on Monday... Hawaiian mystery wrasses. Better call to confirm...

[puppet]

mopiko.. like what digibee mentioned, u should check out coralidea and fishidea.

cant seem to download the file from safari, iphone

[peacemaker]

Plenty of small cleaner shrimps at Ah Beng's. Some rusty angels and coral beauty.

[Ketchup]

cant seem to download the file from safari, iphone

hmm, u can download, extract then upload to iphone thru itunes i think.

[digibee]

hmm, u can download, extract then upload to iphone thru itunes i think.

Those are all photos files.

You have to download it to your computer and sync to iTunes thru the photos.

[Terryz_]

Looking for this two oddity fish..

[cool guy]

Terry, best luck will be at ah beng... Will keep a look out for u...

Btw wat time is e africa shipment at irwana tomolo?

[Terryz_]

Terry, best luck will be at ah beng... Will keep a look out for u...

Btw wat time is e africa shipment at irwana tomolo?

Yup, I only saw them there but recently didnt see any though...

[thomas_lim]

guys, it will good if we keep this thread to LFS update.

Other topics, please discuss in a new thread.

Pardon me if anyone is offended. Thanks

[kenny1111]

Yup, I only saw them there but recently didnt see any though...

saw 2 2day at ah beng, can try it out.