My Tank Keeps CRASHING!

[danial123]

i've been keeping fish for about a year, well, on and off anyway, and for some reason whenever i set up a tank, it always crashes within a few months or even weeks. i'm going to share with you guys as much as i can, and i hope someone can at least let me know where i went wrong.

it all began with freshwater fish at first. i set up a 5 gal cherry shrimp tank with a HOB filter, and all was good in the first few months i did my water changes every week and such and all of a sudden my tank crashed, the water smelt like chlorine/bleach (or ammonia? i've never smelt ammonia before but i heard that it smells like bleach?) not a single shrimp was left alive and the water was extremely cloudy and there was foam at the top of my tank.

the week before my freshwater tank crashed, i had started doing a bit more frequent water changes with tap water so i concluded that i had simply added too much untreated tap water thus the chlorine smell in my water.

a few weeks after that failure i decided to change it into a saltwater tank, i did my research and started putting coral chips about 2 to 3 inch thick substrate and live rock to start the tank cycling. the equipment i had at that time was the HOB filter from my freshwater tank and airstone skimmer as well as wave maker. after about a month i decided to put in live stock which were some mushroom and zoas since they were the easiest to keep, later on i started adding a few damsels and a clownfish, i had about 4 small sized fish at that point of time (which now i know is over stocking). my room is rather cool so i didn't have to install a chiller, my temperature was constantly below 28 degrees.

all was fine and good, until i think i overfed my fish and the next day the water turned cloudy, (but no chlorine or bleach smell, it just had this really really fishy smell, so i changed the water and did some more research on improving water quality in nano tanks. i read this article about the benefits of doing small frequent water changes and doing daily freshwater top offs, so this time, instead of using untreated tap water, i used the diamond water system which i guess is similar to RO units that i had in my house PLUS tap water dechlorinator instead and did water changes every week. and a few weeks later, my water smelt like bleach/chlorine/ammonia? EXACTLY the same smell as what my freshwater tank smelt like! and my airstone skimmer's collection cup was overflowing. and the entire population was WIPED OUT! it was devastating cause even the bristle worms that i never saw before all started crawling out of the grounds and writhing in death.

this time i came to a few conclusions, maybe my old equipment (the HOB filter) was contaminated or i had changed the water chemistry too much with my frequent water top ups and changes. and maybe i had overstocked.

after much grieving and much much more research i decided to throw away ALL my previous equipment (even the cup that i used to do water changes with) and i bought a new pail, a powerhead filter with sponge and activated carbon, and a new airstone skimmer. as well as a this time 15 gallon tank.

this time i put in 3 to 4 inch thick substrate of coral chips and a few kg of live rock and i let it cycled for 2 months. after which i once again added softies like zoas and mushrooms, this time for the fish, ever few weeks i would add only one fish. so in total i had 3, 2 clownfish, a yellow coral goby. so the bio load was manageable, this time out of a fear of past mistakes (whenever i started doing frequent water changes or top ups my fish would get that stupid chlorine/bleach/ammonia smell) i stopped doing water changes at all, relying more on the skimmer and live rock filtration, and doing water top ups only when necessry like once a week.

but after a few months, still the same chlorine/bleach/ammonia smell came back and wiped out all my fish!!!!!! this time though instead of throwing everything out, cause i tried to save my corals i did a massive water change almost 100 percent and in a weeks time my corals were all looking as good as when i bought them and i was really relieved and happy.

from this incident i concluded that perhaps i shoulda done water changes and maybe the build up of ammonia or nitrate or whatever it was caused the crash (cause i didn't change the water for 3 to 4 months) and a heavy bioload too (2 clownfish one yellow coral goby in a 15 g tank?) so this time, i decided to not have any fish at all.

ok, so now we're getting closer to the present. this time, i did 10 to 20 percent water changes with a pail of salt water that had been sitting around for at least 24 hours (cause i heard this gets rid of chlorine too and lets the water settle) about once or twice a week. all was fine and good........... until i went out for about an hour to buy some food back home, before i left the water was crystal clear and totally odorless. when i got back disaster struck! the same chlorine/bleach/ammonia smell again! i swear i'll never forget that smell for the rest of my life. all my corals who were in the process of healing shrunk again and looked like they were on the verge of death.

this time i did a 100 percent water change once again and further more i removed almost ALL the coral chips cause maybe they were trapping toxic or something and here i am now typing this to you all.

is there someone out there who can tell me what went wrong?

SUSPICIONS SO FAR

1 too many water changes, (but i used diamond RO water and let my water sit for 24 hours before using it)

2 too many water top ups (same as above)

3 too heavy bioload (but my latest attempt i didn't have fish at all!)

4 ineffecient filter system (but i didn't even have fish...)

THINGS NOTED

1 water has a heavy chlorine/bleach smell

2 protein skimmer goes CRAzzzzzy over flowing with foam.

3 usually before it happens i do a fresh water top up (but i have to do it sometime right?)

thank you very much for reading this.

[FuEl]

Some brands of anti-chlorine are hopelessly diluted. You need to get the right brands. Water now contains chloramine. Chloramines cannot be removed by letting water sit nor by bubbling it, you need to have anti-chlorine to remove it. Residual ammonia is released when chloramine is broken down. Only very good brands of anti-chlorine will neutralize this residual ammonia.

5 gallons is a very small volume. Get some carboys of distilled water for making your seawater as well as for top up. It's more affordable if you do not want to spend on a good reliable RO/DI unit. I seriously doubt diamond RO water.

[danial123]

Some brands of anti-chlorine are hopelessly diluted. You need to get the right brands. Water now contains chloramine. Chloramines cannot be removed by letting water sit nor by bubbling it, you need to have anti-chlorine to remove it. Residual ammonia is released when chloramine is broken down. Only very good brands of anti-chlorine will neutralize this residual ammonia.

5 gallons is a very small volume. Get some carboys of distilled water for making your seawater as well as for top up. It's more affordable if you do not want to spend on a good reliable RO/DI unit. I seriously doubt diamond RO water.

what brands of anti chlorine wud you recommend? and what RO/DI unit would you recommend?

[limsc]

Hi bro, sad to see that..

.....................

is there someone out there who can tell me what went wrong?

SUSPICIONS SO FAR

1 too many water changes, (but i used diamond RO water and let my water sit for 24 hours before using it)

Aging water only remove chlorine but does not remove chloramine. You would need some form of water primer to bind them to

make them more harmless.

2 too many water top ups (same as above)

Same as above, chloramine is not removed.

3 too heavy bioload (but my latest attempt i didn't have fish at all!)

Although heavy load but your fishes are those more hardy type, frequent water changes should help to maintain them.

4 ineffecient filter system (but i didn't even have fish...)

You need an efficient skimmer, as for airstone skimmer, its difficult to control the water level and that is very

important in the effectiveness of the skimmer.

THINGS NOTED

1 water has a heavy chlorine/bleach smell

I suspect more of ammonia than chlorine. In case you are confused, chlorine smell is those at the swimming pool.

Ammonia stinks!! Like rotting eggs.

2 protein skimmer goes CRAzzzzzy over flowing with foam.

Did you overfeed too much?? The overflowing could be from your overfeed or the organisms already starting dying that

cause the skimmer to react.

3 usually before it happens i do a fresh water top up (but i have to do it sometime right?)

As mentioned, your area of Tap water could have too much chloramine (and you need not treat it).

thank you very much for reading this.

[skinbone]

Has a roomate or has anyone at home complained about the time and money you have invested in the reef tank? Have you ever rejected a request to go out with your live in GF/Spouse because you need to change water?

You know where i am driving at?

[danial123]

Has a roomate or has anyone at home complained about the time and money you have invested in the reef tank? Have you ever rejected a request to go out with your live in GF/Spouse because you need to change water?

You know where i am driving at?

LOL, i doubt that's the case but thanks for the laugh.

[FuEl]

Good brands include Seachem and Amquel. If you prefer the original powder (Chloram-x) that most good liquid anti-chlorine brands use, I can get 5lb tub. I am using this and it is the best IMO. A 5lb tub will set you back around $110 through me but it can treat 18,800 gallons of water.

[Ketchup]

I think the freshwater incident is probably due to untreated chlorinated water.

For the saltwater tank problems... have you actually tested the parameters at all?

[AloysiusMun]

Do u measure salinity and how do u measure it?

[iskay]

Your tank is rather small. Have you considered using NSW for your water changes? It's also rather small to have enough material for an efficient biological filter. You might want to consider using chemical filtration to augment the mechanical and biological filtration.

[danial123]

thanks for all the replies, well, i've only done testing on nitrates and its about 10 ppm which i think shud be pretty ok, i just used up my ammonia test kit so i'm not sure about that one.

i do measure my salinity with a hydrometer.

the tank i have now is 15 gallon and i'm using activated carbon catridges, and i don't think i plan to have anymore fish after all these incidents, at least for a very very long time. just be sticking to softies i guess.

i too think that perhaps is the untreated tap water, more specifically the chloramines, i'll get my hands on some seachem prime or safe and see how it goes.

[Digiman]

Below are my opinions:

1. Your tank is very small, there's no need for skimmer! Jux do water change one pail a week. My tank is 25gal and i go skimmerless with one to two pails water change once a week and the tank is gg strong.

2. Water change is important. Use good salt mix like Tropic Marin and other brands. Salinity i recommend lower as u not using a chiller and since u are only keeping softies, at 1.020~1.021 should suffice, no need to high.

3. If u are using tap water, pls dechlorinate the water. Use good anti-chlorine tat removes chloramine as well. I recommend Seachem Prime. Add salt mix and aerate for at least two days for complete dissolve of the salt.

4. Dun use coral chips. Try to get live sand for your sandbed and keep iit shallow about 2inches for easy maintenance. Try to get some liverocks for your tank too.

5. 15 gal with two clownfishes and your few other fishes is not overstocked! The fishes die becos there's some problem with your tank. Add live sand and live rocks to your tank and let the tank cycle for two weeks, if u are more patient, cycle for a month. After cycling, add fishes and corals slowly, one to two livestocks a week.

6. Running extra chemical filtration (like good activated carbon) is optional if u do weekly water change.

All in all nano tank should be simple and fun.

Hope u solve your problem soon.

[vidextreme]

Question...

Did you change ALL your equipment, even your tank? I just have this wild idea on what could be the problem. Could it be one or some of your equipment maybe leaking toxic chemicals to your tank?

I don't know if this is a good example... I previously bought a water bottle in one of those night markets, I notice a distinct smell very similar to what you described. So anyway, I thought with constant washing and useage it will go away. But it didn't. Each time I store water there, after a few hours the water/bottle smelled like chemicals. I researched about this, and realized that some plastic materials, even food grade, can leak chemicals to the water. The same goes with aquarium equipment. Even the silicon sealant the aquarium maker use, they should use pure silicon, which is less reactive than other rubber and it should be aquarium graded.

I agree with Digiman, well maintain activated carbon ensures in some of these chemicals are remove from your tank.

Oh, another question...

Are you using copper tubing in your house water supply?

[LaW]

ditch the diamond water. they are not RO, but just basic filtration.

[TayHongSiang]

for nano reefers....check out this site www.nano-reef.com, it's a good site for u...

for nano tanks, the system is the opp of big tanks...for nano tanks, keep your system as simple as possible...a protein skimmer and a cannister hook up will do...when i was keeping my 2ft nano...i dun even use a protein skimmer..just a cannister with biohomme and filter wool inside...

for maintenance wise, use NSW or distilled water from ntuc...do small water change...not more than 10% each time or less than one inch of your water level.

allow your tank to cycle for one month...if u can't wait, dose bacteria and let it settle for one week...

and lastly, do not introduce too much fishes / corals at one time...have to do it slowly week by week...

if u do it well, u can make your tank look like this...

[danial123]

wow, thanks for all the replies, i think its most likely the tap water, cause i realise the pattern is when i start doing water top offs or changes more frequently, with diamond water (which i tot was safe but i now know it isn't) or water that's been sitting around for a few days (cause it doesn't remove chloramine) that it starts happening.

i never knew chloramines could do so much damage, i'm going to get a big bottle of seachem prime and hope for the best.

[danial123]

i have just gotten my brand new bottle of seachem prime today, and i can already feel that my problem is solved. thank you guys for all the help and advice, i will definitely update you guys on any further changes.

[marshalllee]

bro, actually you can try using distilled water for top up? like from shop n save? thats what i did and is doing well... since your tank is small it shouldnt be that bad... one 1.5l bottle is 65cents

[stevenkoh08]

bro a good thing u should do is remove all ur coral chip for good and put in sand bed

coral chip will trap a lot of toxic as u said like detrites and trap in the coral chip, when it break down it will release toxic back to ur tank whenever u disturb the bottom area.

[inwear]

what brands of anti chlorine wud you recommend? and what RO/DI unit would you recommend?

I used Prime. Its a great product. rem to age your water for a day before WC

[inwear]

bro a good thing u should do is remove all ur coral chip for good and put in sand bed

coral chip will trap a lot of toxic as u said like detrites and trap in the coral chip, when it break down it will release toxic back to ur tank whenever u disturb the bottom area.

Agree !

[danial123]

yeah i have siphoned off almost all of the coral chips its only a thin layer now, so i doubt it'll trap anything, will siphon it all off next water change.

by the way, what brand of distilled water do you guys use for water top ups?

[MarcoVan]

yeah i have siphoned off almost all of the coral chips its only a thin layer now, so i doubt it'll trap anything, will siphon it all off next water change.

by the way, what brand of distilled water do you guys use for water top ups?

anything that's cheap! So long as it says distilled and it's the cheapest on the shelf, BUY!

[limsc]

anything that's cheap! So long as it says distilled and it's the cheapest on the shelf, BUY!

Yeah.. Normally those house brands are the cheapest. eg. NTUC, Giant.

Take note is distilled water or Pure drinking water NOT mineral water that you buy.

[xersion]

need to test for ANN while in cycling stage also.. this is one of the most important things to check for before adding LS into ur tank