Recreating a 'miracle'

[vidextreme]

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum. I just want to share my experience (in some way weird) with saltwater tanks and maybe get some feed back from you guys regarding my plan to recreate this.

A few years ago back in the Philippines I started my very first saltwater tank. I was still in school so I had limited access to funds so almost everything I used were improvised, even the tank. Instead of a glass aquarium I used an old Coleman cooler (about 0.75m x 0.5m x 0.5m). For the protein skimmer I fashioned from a mineral bottle. Of course, I bought an hydrometer, airstone, hose and an air pump. The saltwater, live rocks and sand I got them from the beach. I bought some green algae from a near by wet market in my area. My tank occupants (which I personally caught) were some crabs, a half a meter, cream colored with big black spots, eel(which I chopstick-fed btw), some small fishes and some snails. Also clams which I got also from the wet market. The light source was direct sun light.

As to little knowledge I have back then, I don't check for pH, phosphates, ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, I added no supplements, no buffers, no water conditioners, etc. No refugiums and no sump tank. Whats interesting is this tank survived for 2+ years without any of these plus NOT A SINGLE WATER CHANGE. All I check is the salinity and just replenish the tank with distilled water. Until that fateful morning when I accidentally poured a fruit-punch from a previous night house party instead of distilled water. Very sad indeed... The lesson there is never touch your tank when you're half asleep.

Even now I often scratch my head(aside from the head flakes) how did my tank survive that long now knowing that it broke so many marine-aquatic rules. Though it wasn't a reef tank, but still, imagine no other filtration other than a homemade protein-skimmer and clams. Oh I did include a banded shrimp when the movie Nemo came out. It unfortunately became food for my muscled-crab after a few months.

Now that I'm working here in Singapore, I'm planning to recreate this feat(beginner's luck). Maybe in a nano/pico tank. I want to know what was the winning formula, if there's one. I don't know if I'll be successful especially I'll be throwing corals into the equation.

Any thoughts about this, guys/gals?

Thanks!

[BFG]

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum. I just want to share my experience (in some way weird) with saltwater tanks and maybe get some feed back from you guys regarding my plan to recreate this.

A few years ago back in the Philippines I started my very first saltwater tank. I was still in school so I had limited access to funds so almost everything I used were improvised, even the tank. Instead of a glass aquarium I used an old Coleman cooler (about 0.75m x 0.5m x 0.5m). For the protein skimmer I fashioned from a mineral bottle. Of course, I bought an hydrometer, airstone, hose and an air pump. The saltwater, live rocks and sand I got them from the beach. I bought some green algae from a near by wet market in my area. My tank occupants (which I personally caught) were some crabs, a half a meter, cream colored with big black spots, eel(which I chopstick-fed btw), some small fishes and some snails. Also clams which I got also from the wet market. The light source was direct sun light.

As to little knowledge I have back then, I don't check for pH, phosphates, ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, I added no supplements, no buffers, no water conditioners, etc. No refugiums and no sump tank. Whats interesting is this tank survived for 2+ years without any of these plus NOT A SINGLE WATER CHANGE. All I check is the salinity and just replenish the tank with distilled water. Until that fateful morning when I accidentally poured a fruit-punch from a previous night house party instead of distilled water. Very sad indeed... The lesson there is never touch your tank when you're half asleep.

Even now I often scratch my head(aside from the head flakes) how did my tank survive that long now knowing that it broke so many marine-aquatic rules. Though it wasn't a reef tank, but still, imagine no other filtration other than a homemade protein-skimmer and clams. Oh I did include a banded shrimp when the movie Nemo came out. It unfortunately became food for my muscled-crab after a few months.

Now that I'm working here in Singapore, I'm planning to recreate this feat(beginner's luck). Maybe in a nano/pico tank. I want to know what was the winning formula, if there's one. I don't know if I'll be successful especially I'll be throwing corals into the equation.

Any thoughts about this, guys/gals?

Thanks!

Fish will acclimatised to lower salinity level given time, in your case. That is a known fact. Try placing corals such as pratas, cyarina, zoos, euphyllia species of corals and others and report back to us. You might be lucky and they survive or your tank will be stocked by coral skeleton.

[AravinthanRaja]

Well bro! I was in your state once! i knew nuts about the marine world and just thought that it was just like freshwater where you just dump everything in!! Well its good to know that you're here in Singapore and wanna start up a tank! A reef tank i suppose! The downside about having a reef tank in singapore is that you gotta have a chiller! you can afford all the corals in the world but u must must have a god dam chiller! cause our weather is just a killer! And never use a fan and direct it towards the water cause it'll just dry the water up and leave lumps of salt everywhere which is a bad idea! I'm selling my chiller which i once used for a tank which you're getting! it turns on like 4 times a day! and is ultra silent! it is still very new and is in great condition! if you're planing on a sump, you can hook up a powerhead from your sump to the chiller or you cause use an external canister which is very efficient too! i'm selling my chiller at $180 and its a great price for a good chiller which i got for $450 bucks! pls contact me @ 91006792! cheers!

[reefer guy]

Fish will acclimatised to lower salinity level given time, in your case. That is a known fact. Try placing corals such as pratas, cyarina, zoos, euphyllia species of corals and others and report back to us. You might be lucky and they survive or your tank will be stocked by coral skeleton.

not really all true.....

my tank in 2008 WITHOUT water change for a year..... only reason I shut this down is I lost hope after Cedric showed me his gems

in 2007, this is my setup again WITHOUT water change for about 8 months -- dismantled it as I shifted....

....just started my new tank a month ago... perhaps come back and check on this thread a year later?

kabayan, welcome to reefing

[vidextreme]

Well bro! I was in your state once! i knew nuts about the marine world and just thought that it was just like freshwater where you just dump everything in!! Well its good to know that you're here in Singapore and wanna start up a tank! A reef tank i suppose! The downside about having a reef tank in singapore is that you gotta have a chiller! you can afford all the corals in the world but u must must have a god dam chiller! cause our weather is just a killer! And never use a fan and direct it towards the water cause it'll just dry the water up and leave lumps of salt everywhere which is a bad idea! I'm selling my chiller which i once used for a tank which you're getting! it turns on like 4 times a day! and is ultra silent! it is still very new and is in great condition! if you're planing on a sump, you can hook up a powerhead from your sump to the chiller or you cause use an external canister which is very efficient too! i'm selling my chiller at $180 and its a great price for a good chiller which i got for $450 bucks! pls contact me @ 91006792! cheers!

Hi djvin,

In my first experiment, I'll probably won't be using a sump or a chiller (teeth grinding). Thanks for that good offer btw. Well the weather here ain't so bad I guess. In fact, I think its just the humidity. but the temperature is cooler than one of my favorite snorkling sites in Calatagan, Batangas(Philippines). Of course, Calatagan is no longer as good as other sites in the Philippines but I have a lots of fond memories in that place. Back in the days, I was like in the beach every weekend.

As I recall, waters on Calatagan can be so warm in some part of the coral reefs there. In fact, when its low tide the waters can be so warm as a shower on medium setting heater. And yet the corals there survive. My theory its because of these corals have adopted on that environment. I think(for all my newb-nesses) the key thing is to choose the right species of corals. I'll probably buy corals based from which species I can recall to be in that reef.

not really all true.....

my tank in 2008 WITHOUT water change for a year..... only reason I shut this down is I lost hope after Cedric showed me his gems

in 2007, this is my setup again WITHOUT water change for about 8 months -- dismantled it as I shifted....

....just started my new tank a month ago... perhaps come back and check on this thread a year later?

kabayan, welcome to reefing

I'm surprised that your corals survive without any water change. This means there is hope in upcoming experiment. Thanks for giving some.

I'm doing some research on Ocean Accidification which is majorly caused by too much CO2 absorbed by the surface of the ocean. Acidification is important for CaCO3 which is key for calcium supply for reefs and some other invertebraes. Here's an interesting link. Back in old tank, I know is some way the calcium acidification was balance, because my crabs did not complain when they molted(this is a sign that the pH is well enough for them to shed their exoskeleton). Also my clams and oysters shows growth on the their shell, which means they're happy with the calcium supply. It's surprising, considering how shallow my tank were (deep is important). Of course, being a reef-newb, I could be wrong.

[vidextreme]

Btw, Ocean Acidification is a bad thing but the ocean still need proper acidity level in order for dissolved calcium supply.

(How come I can't edit my own post? )

[DUCADOS]

Power!!!

2years without water change... No joke!

Maybe those creature u caught r those potential survive?

Anyway it's unbelieveable...

Welcome back to reefing again!

[vidextreme]

Power!!!

2years without water change... No joke!

Maybe those creature u caught r those potential survive?

Anyway it's unbelieveable...

Welcome back to reefing again!

Hi ducados,

I'm not sure if they're just good in adaptability. After some googling, I found the scientific name of my pet eel... 'Myrichthys tigrinus'

One thing is certain though, I caught it from the exact beach where I got my saltwater and sand from. Also the crabs and fishes.

I remember catching it I thought it was a sea-snake! I fed it with guppy on a chopsticks (semi-KO). Sometimes when the guppy is still alive, the eel rotates while most of its body is still buried in sand! It was awesome to see! ( I miss my pet eel...)

My pet grouper was also awesome. I barely see it out from the rocks. When I drop a guppy, the grouper is so fast and precise snatching it and goind back to the rocks that I only see the sand-dust moving. Unfortunately, this grouper only lasted a few months. My mum told me she saw our pet cat gnawing on something juicy earlier that day. At least, it happened during its prime, ha! I caught this from a different beach in Subic (somewhere north from Manila) which I would say has the a very similar water temperature if I remember it correctly.

You could be right that they had more potential to survive. But I think the trickier part there is the ammonia-nitrite-nitrate levels. Any of these going out of control its gonna be fatal to any creatures even to the most adaptive ones.

It's no joke my friend! I just wish I had taken some pictures back then.

[DUCADOS]

Wow... Really unbelieveable...

Anyway if u were thinking of recreating a miracle again,

my advise is not to.

Coz your tots of recreating miracle is actually putting those LS life at risk.

Saving Gaia!

[braincoral]

miracle only happen once

a while....

[DUCADOS]

Agreed! So don't risk!

Just like 4D. In order to win a fortune,we have already lost a fortune.

Only those minority striked with just a few bet.

[vidextreme]

No pain, no gain!

Even the minority of 4D winners wouldn't have won if they don't bet, right? hahahah

Of course, this time around it won't be as random or unmonitored as before. I believe that in order for us to understand a complex system is to start with the simpliest indivisible complexity. I plan to start to with nothing but live sand first. Probably placing a very small live rock just to introduce the happy-good microbes. I would rely heavily on natural means of balancing pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates etc. I'm a firm believer that the best way to simulate nature is by natural means (kinda redundant, aye?). The only un-natural component I'll be including are protein skimmer+aeration and light source. The rest of the filtration will be handled by clams, oysters and seaweeds, similar to my old tank. I won't be using any mechanical filters. except for emergency purpose only. Eventually, I'll put bigger live rocks, then corals and then fishes or other crustaceans.

I hope I'll be consistent on monitoring the variables in the tank.

Right now, I'm still researching on how I'm going to do this. If you guys have any inputs, ideas, concerns and/or suggestions you could give, I would gladly appreciate them.

[DUCADOS]

No pain, no gain!

who pain? But who gain?

They pain by losing their life but we gain experience from their lost life. With today's technology we can easily learn w/o having them losing their life!

4D striker r just an example.

[vidextreme]

who pain? But who gain?

They pain by losing their life but we gain experience from their lost life. With today's technology we can easily learn w/o having them losing their life!

4D striker r just an example.

Yup. That's why I don't bet 4D.

[braincoral]

No pain, no gain!

Even the minority of 4D winners wouldn't have won if they don't bet, right? hahahah

Of course, this time around it won't be as random or unmonitored as before. I believe that in order for us to understand a complex system is to start with the simpliest indivisible complexity. I plan to start to with nothing but live sand first. Probably placing a very small live rock just to introduce the happy-good microbes. I would rely heavily on natural means of balancing pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates etc. I'm a firm believer that the best way to simulate nature is by natural means (kinda redundant, aye?). The only un-natural component I'll be including are protein skimmer+aeration and light source. The rest of the filtration will be handled by clams, oysters and seaweeds, similar to my old tank. I won't be using any mechanical filters. except for emergency purpose only. Eventually, I'll put bigger live rocks, then corals and then fishes or other crustaceans.

I hope I'll be consistent on monitoring the variables in the tank.

Right now, I'm still researching on how I'm going to do this. If you guys have any inputs, ideas, concerns and/or suggestions you could give, I would gladly appreciate them.

Yes..

You might be able to run ur tank

without skimmer, exp and complex system

with endless water changes and Good knowledge

and lots of self discipline...

Thats what I am doing now

For me, I more into Low cost setup but with lots

of reading and stuff.

This makes reefing more interesting

[DUCADOS]

Yes..

You might be able to run ur tank

without skimmer, exp and complex system

with endless water changes and Good knowledge

and lots of self discipline...

Thats what I am doing now

For me, I more into Low cost setup but with lots

of reading and stuff.

This makes reefing more interesting

ups for u...

A responsible reefer!

[Ingwe]

hey bro,

Glad to see you've posted on the forum.

If I may sum up, the other guys hope that in your quest for the repeated miracle you'd take into consideration the welfare of your lifestock too.

A small volume might lead to swings in temperature if you're relying on natural sunlight, minimal waterchanges the accumulation of waste and depletion of essential minerals and so on. This will stress the fishes and inverts that are kept in the tank.

Having met you I'm confident you'll do sufficient research before proceeding.

Have fun with your project and its been nice meeting you!

[DUCADOS]

hey bro,

Glad to see you've posted on the forum.

If I may sum up, the other guys hope that in your quest for the repeated miracle you'd take into consideration the welfare of your lifestock too.

A small volume might lead to swings in temperature if you're relying on natural sunlight, minimal waterchanges the accumulation of waste and depletion of essential minerals and so on. This will stress the fishes and inverts that are kept in the tank.

Having met you I'm confident you'll do sufficient research before proceeding.

Have fun with your project and its been nice meeting you!

bro,who r u refering to? 

[Ingwe]

vidextreme

[DUCADOS]

vidextreme

Ic... Lol.

Cheers!

[cjh]

I've not changed my tank water for 3yrs... No skimmer... Only nutrient export is the regular harvesting of algae from main tank...

[DUCADOS]

I've not changed my tank water for 3yrs... No skimmer... Only nutrient export is the regular harvesting of algae from main tank...

Wow... Yours lagi power.

Care to share?

Size of tank?

How many LS in it?

Equipment?

[braincoral]

I've not changed my tank water for 3yrs... No skimmer... Only nutrient export is the regular harvesting of algae from main tank...

tats gd...

My main way of nutrient export is

to change water twice a week..

Only 2 fishes living in my tank

Not a reefer who chiong for every

New Shipment..hee

More Fishes = More nutrients

I also no Skimmer and my filter

only hang on..ten bucks..

[vidextreme]

hey bro,

Glad to see you've posted on the forum.

If I may sum up, the other guys hope that in your quest for the repeated miracle you'd take into consideration the welfare of your lifestock too.

A small volume might lead to swings in temperature if you're relying on natural sunlight, minimal waterchanges the accumulation of waste and depletion of essential minerals and so on. This will stress the fishes and inverts that are kept in the tank.

Having met you I'm confident you'll do sufficient research before proceeding.

Have fun with your project and its been nice meeting you!

Hey dude,

Thanks for the encouragement bro. Yes there's so much factor I have to consider.

The welfare of lifestocks are duely noted. That's why I hope to start small, so that way, less heart aches. Of course, I won't be doing this if I don't believe it will work. I've seen this happening(not yet for reefs), some of the reefers here had similar stories. I know it won't be an exact science due to the fact that I don't have the best-est of equipment and sophisticated probes to measure every minute variables. But this time, it won't be as random as before. The idea of a fully-balanced closed-system (semi in this case) and understanding how it (if would it ever)works would be my own great personal achievement.

Btw, I'll probably head to Pasir Ris Farmway-goodies this sunday.

Cheers!

[vidextreme]

I've not changed my tank water for 3yrs... No skimmer... Only nutrient export is the regular harvesting of algae from main tank...

Wow! Maybe you got some pointers or even some hunch how did it work for you?

Awesome!