Centropyge colini log.

[yikai]

Just did a search on colini angels on SRC and like most other interesting fish, is terribly lacking in data in this forum. So, shall inject some colini material into the archives starting today. My colini angel log.

This thread will serve as a log to track my progress with these angels from hell.

Some quick info. on this fish for those who don't know

Centropyge colini Smith-Vainz & Randall, 1974

Common Name: Colini's Angelfish, Blue-back Angelfish

Maximum Length: 9cm (3.5in)

Distribution: Cocos-Keeling Island, Papua New Guinea, Belau, Guam and Fiji

Bio: Relatively deepwater, reclusive, and shy, found in deep drop offs or reef slops, and typically found in caves where they swim upside down. Typically found in groups of 3-5, or pairs, they inhabit large caves or overhangs of orange tubastrea. sp and share this habitat with the multibar angelfish and regal angelfish. They occur at depths of 17-75m. In Cocos-Keeling, at 51-73m, Guam, at 36-48m.

This fish occasionally makes it's way to the aquarium trade but is shy and very delicate. It has to be treated with the utmost care if it is to survive. It's best chance is to be housed in dimly lit tanks, with peaceful tank mates and plenty of liverocks or hiding places. Feeding is a problem, but most individuals will accept live offerings provided they are captured and handled properly.

[yikai]

Colini Pair 1

So begins the log. about 1 week ago i aquired 2 healthy colini angels. Both were packed individually and brought home separately. Conditions of the fishes were

- Healthy

- full bodied

- alert

- feeding

- however, had ich.

Decided to quarantine them. Most centropyge do not take quarantine well, especially the golden angel and colini angel. Like i've said, anything but complete luxury will spell death. Therefore, decide to skip copper and do hyposalinity. Hyposalinity calms the fish down and the fish does not have to exert so much energy to maintain it's blood-water osmoregulation due to the hypo-saline salt water it lives in.

Water changes daily or every 2 days

Day 1 in hypo

- Both fish exhibit interest in each other. Slight chasing, biting, but settled down after 15 mins. 1 was slightly larger while the other smaller

- No circling, which is good. They paired up soon after.

Day 2

- Both were feeding very well on live brine and frozen mysis.

However, subsequent days, their appetite decreased up till about day 5, where they just stopped feeding completely.

My initial mistake was not to provide enough hiding places like PVC pipes.

Day 6

- Introduced a liverock and both of them pecked on it ferociously, stripping everything off.

Day 7

- Smeared some henry's food on the liverock and they fed on it a little.

However i removed the liverock fearing it could contaminate my QT.

Day 8

- Refuse to feed, not as alert as before

Larger male died from gill infection. Swollen gills, reddening. Cause of this is still unknown.

Female still alive, skinnier, lethargic. Still not feeding.

This led me to conclude that their overall decline of health despite feeding must have been collection problem, poor decompression or cyanide. In the QT were two carribean sailfin blennies that are extremely well and feeding very well. It's not water quality as water changes are done very very often.

[yikai]

This were the initial first few days of the attempt.

[yikai]

Day 9

- Decided to increase the size of QT. went to fill the larger toyogo box with fresh saltwater. Transferred the last remaining colini in it. Water quality is definitely not an issue here and it has to do with the fish's initial health for their demise.

new QT was approximately 1.5x larger. Two carribean sailfin blennies settled in nicely, began feeding soon after.

Female colini did fine too, but remained lethargic and still not feeding.

Picked up another 2 colini angels on that same day (Day 9)

Matched the pH and introduced the 2 new colinis. Total colini count now is 3. (2 new, 1 old female)

The new colinis, to my suprised, paired up! Very lucky. Both were slightly different in sizes. The original female was left alone and it would be accurate to say that i have successfully created a trio of colinis. 1 male and 2 females!

However, this happiness was short lived. The original colini did not make it through the night and was dead soon after.

Total colini count now, 2. (the new pair)

Some stats on the new pair

- Both are very healthy (like the original pair)

- Alert (like old pair)

- full bodied, no signs of disease. This time, added in some hiding places and will cut short QT to 1 week if no signs of disease emerge.

- Tried feeding. Male colini ate 2 pellets of new life spectrum. No response from female yet.

i'm unsure if this 2 are from the original colini shipment about 2 weeks ago, or if they are new ones. If they are the old ones, it's good that they're alive up till now. meaning they are quite stable.

If they are new, then at least i got them fresh from shipment without stressing them at the LFS.

*Female Colini autopsy

I did an autopsy on my dead female colini from pair 1. Stomach contents show nothing, intestines were completely empty. No faeces, no food matter, nothing (Expected, since it was not feeding). Liver was swollen and very red. Swim bladder was fine and appropriately shaped.

Led me to conclude that, there were no swim bladder infections and no decompression problem.

Liver was swollen and very red (organ failure?)

intestines were flat and empty with not even a trace of intestinal fluid, faecal matter etc.

possible C.O.D was cyanide. All symptoms were pointing towards it. Cyanide kills a fish within weeks or days and not immediately. Cyanide caught fishes may exhibit multiple organ failure, and intestines will show no intestinal flora.

I study biology in humans. Not fish. this was the best i could do without proper instruments. If i had a microscope, it would be better to look at the tissue of the liver or intestines. Alas, i don't. i can only conclude that demise of the fish was not due to my negligence, but it's original health was compromised before reaching the LFS.

[yikai]

Original log for colini pair 1 officially ends at day 9. Both were dead by then, cause of death still unknown but highly suspected it's from shipping stress and collection problems. My other 2 blennies did not exhibit any problems in the QT.

that makes the grand total number of days since arrival till death,

7 (1 week in LFS) + 9 days (with me) = 16 days. Miserable and utter failure.

First pair of colinis failed, and i'm now left with my second pair. hopefully they hold better things installed

[yikai]

Colini pair 2.

Day 1

- both are fine, visually and physically

- Internally, no idea.

- Male had 2 bites of NLS pellets.

- Have not tried other food yet, so feeding or not is uncertain. (NLS is not counted as source of food for me, at this point, because new colinis will never recognize pellets as food on day 1. the male probably was nipping around and happen to eat 2)

Here is the new pair in a much much larger QT system. Put in a tunze 6025 for circulation.

[Terryz_]

Colini pair 2.

Day 1

- both are fine, visually and physically

- Internally, no idea.

- Male had 2 bites of NLS pellets.

- Have not tried other food yet, so feeding or not is uncertain. (NLS is not counted as source of food for me, at this point, because new colinis will never recognize pellets as food on day 1. the male probably was nipping around and happen to eat 2)

Here is the new pair in a much much larger QT system. Put in a tunze 6025 for circulation.

Try some vege food like nori and kelp and tie to a small liferock... They will go nip at the nori or kelp... Mean time can train them to mysis...

Told you it is not a easy fish... Mine also lasted me a week or two..

[Terryz_]

From the photo, These two looks more healthy..

[yikai]

Try some vege food like nori and kelp and tie to a small liferock... They will go nip at the nori or kelp... Mean time can train them to mysis...

Told you it is not a easy fish... Mine also lasted me a week or two..

yeah. this is those kinda fish were healthy and feeding is just NOT enough a guarantee for success

From the photo, These two looks more healthy..

yes. they are more alert and observant. one is healthier than the other. but overall, both also healthy.

[CFOh]

Just did a search on colini angels on SRC and like most other interesting fish, is terribly lacking in data in this forum. So, shall inject some colini material into the archives starting today. My colini angel log.

This thread will serve as a log to track my progress with these angels from hell.

Some quick info. on this fish for those who don't know

Centropyge colini Smith-Vainz & Randall, 1974

Common Name: Colini's Angelfish, Blue-back Angelfish

Maximum Length: 9cm (3.5in)

Distribution: Cocos-Keeling Island, Papua New Guinea, Belau, Guam and Fiji

Bio: Relatively deepwater, reclusive, and shy, found in deep drop offs or reef slops, and typically found in caves where they swim upside down. Typically found in groups of 3-5, or pairs, they inhabit large caves or overhangs of orange tubastrea. sp and share this habitat with the multibar angelfish and regal angelfish. They occur at depths of 17-75m. In Cocos-Keeling, at 51-73m, Guam, at 36-48m.

This fish occasionally makes it's way to the aquarium trade but is shy and very delicate. It has to be treated with the utmost care if it is to survive. It's best chance is to be housed in dimly lit tanks, with peaceful tank mates and plenty of liverocks or hiding places. Feeding is a problem, but most individuals will accept live offerings provided they are captured and handled properly.

Fyi, Lemon2,

Pls find below some info on Colini, Books "Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott W. Michael pg 232"

Cheers and Happy Reefing...

[yikai]

Fyi, Lemon2,

Pls find below some info on Colini, Books "Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott W. Michael pg 232"

Cheers and Happy Reefing...

i have this book

[CFOh]

i have this book

Nevermind, can benefit/share with other bros too... So, we can recommend more good books and magazines about marine....

Another info from book "Reef Fish identification, Tropical pacific Pg 32 by Gerald Allen, Roger Steene, Paul Humann, Ned Deloach"

Cheers and Happy Reefing...

[yikai]

Nevermind, can benefit/share with other bros too... So, we can recommend more good books and magazines about marine....

Another info from book "Reef Fish identification, Tropical pacific Pg 32 by Gerald Allen, Roger Steene, Paul Humann, Ned Deloach"

Cheers and Happy Reefing...

seems you have many nice books. time for me to get more too.

[CFOh]

seems you have many nice books. time for me to get more too.

Only books we can admire fishes & corals long lasting.... also as ppl said "秀才不出门,能知天下事"...

Another info from good book "Dr. Burgess's Atlas of Marine Aquarium Fishes by Dr.Warren E. Burgess, Dr.Herbert R. Axelrod, Raymond E. Hunziker III"

Very interesting book using symbol to characterize fishes habitat and requirement...

Cheers and Happy Reefing

[yikai]

video of my 2 colinis. i love the jerky methodical swimming style very reminiscent of paracentropyge sp.

[dnsfpl]

nice detailed write up of your journal

any tips in keeping golden angel?

both of them seems to have similar behavior

thanks

[Terryz_]

nice detailed write up of your journal

any tips in keeping golden angel?

both of them seems to have similar behavior

thanks

Basically, for golden angel, it is feeding problem and stress related... They are so timid that any fast moving fishes will scare the wits out of it..

[yikai]

nice detailed write up of your journal

any tips in keeping golden angel?

both of them seems to have similar behavior

thanks

true for what terryz said.

golden angel is a very problematic fish.

they are

- very very timid (which means no large fishes or sudden movements. will scare the hell out of them)

- very difficult to feed (you NEED live rock. if you are quarantining it, do it fast or don't do it at all, and provide lots of hiding places)

- They are very easily stressed. (These fishes are very very timid)

- Decompression problems. (Golden angel lives in relatively deep water and suffer decompression problems. don't buy those with funny swimming habits)

- Majority of golden angels are caught with cyanide. These fish are very very difficult to hand catch because they are so cryptic. Cyanide is often employed

When looking for golden angels, get small sized 1-2 inches. Smaller ones adapt better. Next, make sure it is swimming properly and alert, curious. Don't get those that look dazed. Not feeding? Nevermind. A golden that is feeding in LFS is from heaven.

Once you buy, bring home, acclimate and dim your lights. they are deepwater so adjust your lighting for the first few days. Make sure no aggression and plenty of liverocks. VERY IMPORTANT.

Next, begin your training to feed them immediately. Try using live brine shrimp to initiate a feeding response together with macroalgae and liverocks to tide over the initial starvation.

If all goes well, it will begin feeding and you can wean it onto frozen.

Good luck. it is one of the hardest dwarf angels.

[dnsfpl]

thanks for the tips

hope you can succeed with this 2nd pair

cheers

[yikai]

thanks for the tips

hope you can succeed with this 2nd pair

cheers

thanks

[yikai]

Some updates on the colini pair.

One of them has abit of tail that's been broken off at the side. looks very very mild but i'm suspecting very mild fin rot or ammonia burns. did a huge water change today. Anyone know how long till the symptoms go away? will do more water changes tomorrow.

Both of them are still very alert and healthy. No signs of disease and i want to take them out of QT now and into normal sg water with liverocks. But due to my exam week, will do it at the end of the week.

I PRAY they can tahan until the end of this week. Very very busy this week so did not do water change for 2 days, and cannot get them into another set up. Did it today, a large portion, and will do again tomorrow.

Will do water change everyday until friday and slowly increase the sg back to 1.025. This friday they will be liberated into sea water with liverocks.

Still no feeding response from both of them. but pecking on my sponge filter, floor and air tubes. dunno what they are pecking at... both of them seem a little fierce towards each other but not aggressive. temporarily separated them for the time being.

I hope they can pull through till friday when i can give them more TLC. it's hard to juggle studies and reefing.

sigh.

[Terryz_]

Wun be ammonia burn... Most likely Fin rot.. If it is den i guess i would require medication... Hypo wun help...

No respond even from Live Brine?

[FuEl]

Fin rot always follows ammonia burn.

[yikai]

Wun be ammonia burn... Most likely Fin rot.. If it is den i guess i would require medication... Hypo wun help...

No respond even from Live Brine?

hmm.. dam sian if it's fin rot. i don't have medication. furan will work for this.

anyway just did another 1 pail of water change.

live brine? they curious and look at it. but no eating.

like i said before. these angels don't do well in QT. Need alot of liverock and they are not adapting well. that's why i want to get them out of QT ASAP. since they dont have ich anymore.

[Terryz_]

Fin rot always follows ammonia burn.

But if Ammonia burn, it should be quite obvious when he bought it unless i misunderstood how ammonia burn occur...