Wanting to Start a Nano Reef Tank!

[comycus]

Yes some nano and pico owners actually run fans to cool their tanks instead of chiller due to cost constraints. Of course running chiller is better, but if you are running a pico tank, then my recommendation is to go with the iceprobe.

The skimmer is prob not gonna help too much in a pico tank. That's why I suggested doing away with it especially since you have no sump. Will have alot of clutter ard your tank with lights, skimmer, pumps, wavemaker, canister etc.

Besides regular water changes are already a must for small tanks, so the skimmer doesn't make much of a difference. WC will be a better form of nutrient export.

Corals typically don't increase your bioload, unless you keep non photosynthetic corals that require constant feeding. Nitrates will spike then because of the need to flood your tank regularly.

[comycus]

In your case, I would recommend you to go as big as your budget allows. This is because bigger = more water volume, and it really helps alot especially when you are new as there is more room for error.

I suggest you look at peacemaker's tank thread. It is an excellent build which I think might suit you.

[TayHongSiang]

Is it possible to run a nano tank without chiller? What are some of the possible consequences?

Would the survivability of the coloration of the corals be affected? Lighting for the tank would be crucial to coloration of the corals in the tank yes?

The Deltec MCE300 would mean that I could efficiently increase the bioload in my tank yes?

Do Corals produce nitrates as well?

Working on a budget really is not that easy. Hahah.

i used to have a 2ft nano and spent less than $400 in total.

No skimmer and just relying on a filter cannister.... and a fan...

but u may have to top up water everyday...due to evaporation...

For LPS n softies..so long your temp dun exceed 30 can already....

this is my 2ft nano last time....but u have to make up for it by doing regular water change...i change every 3 days...n i managed to sustain for almost 3 yrs b4 i upgrade...

u can start off with maxspect 60W LED with 2 tubes of T5 to complement.

And a hang-on back skimmer MCE300 and a simple 2ft tank...there's one tank maker beside Golden Octopus (beta spell out for u)..about 10metres away...u can enquire there...they can help u make a IOS behind the tank or beside...to place your skimmer....

[jackywongto]

my other option is to do a 1.8/2x1.5x1.5feet tank. Any suggestions for where I could get the Crystal Glass tank made?

@comycus: The lights you suggested is just a bulb ya? How can I mount it to my tank? A flexible arm to suspend it from the side walls of my tank?

that is a much better size than your 1.5 x 1 x 1

tank maker - any of those we have mentioned so far.

[jackywongto]

Is it possible to run a nano tank without chiller? What are some of the possible consequences?

Would the survivability of the coloration of the corals be affected? Lighting for the tank would be crucial to coloration of the corals in the tank yes?

The Deltec MCE300 would mean that I could efficiently increase the bioload in my tank yes?

Do Corals produce nitrates as well?

Working on a budget really is not that easy. Hahah.

yes it is possible not not to use a chiller for nano.

Just use a fan to blow which a lot of bros have mentioned.

water evaporation will be higher.

temperature can be maintained at around 29 deg cel.

certain corals need good lighting. certain are less demanding.

there are some that does not need light.

T5s will do fine for your tank too... not necessary to plunge into LEDs.

using mce300, yes you can support higher bioload but that does not necessary translate into more fishes hor.

Fishes need their own territory and space.

Corals do produce some waste but not something that you need to be bothered about.

[AloysiusMun]

AH yes yes I forgot that fish are territorial. So kinda pointless in increasing my bioload capacity with the addition of a skimmer now.

Very good point Bro!

How to naturally remove Nitrates and Phosphate without a Skimmer? Suggestions anyone?

Both Nitrates and Phosphate are harmful to the Corals, that I know.

Can you chisel live rock to shape it? Will it affect anything?

Thanks for everyone's patience!

[jackywongto]

AH yes yes I forgot that fish are territorial. So kinda pointless in increasing my bioload capacity with the addition of a skimmer now.

Very good point Bro!

How to naturally remove Nitrates and Phosphate without a Skimmer? Suggestions anyone?

Both Nitrates and Phosphate are harmful to the Corals, that I know.

Can you chisel live rock to shape it? Will it affect anything?

Thanks for everyone's patience!

How to naturally remove Nitrates and Phosphate without a Skimmer?

frequent & regular WC. Best 2 x a week. else once a week.

a lot depends on your stocking level and feeding/ dosing habits.

sometimes the question is how high is high nitrate?

some people keep reefs with 30 - 40 ppm and their corals are still fine.

I think depends on what you are keeping.

Most people would try to lower to about 10 - 20ppm.

unless if you are keeping SPS, it needs to be close to 0ppm.

phosphate just encourages algae bloom.

chisel rock....hmmm nvr come across it lol....

probably the rock will break into several pieces before you get to the shape you wanted.

I have drilled them and secured them with cable before though.

[AloysiusMun]

I found my solution! Chaeto and Caulerpap. Will keep them in a mesh bag in my tank where there is lots of light. Hopefully they are efficient enough since mine is a small tank!

Wah so high huh? I thought of keeping mine below 5ppm as I read that nitrates can cause corals and fish alike to de-color.

Seems like I found a way to save cost on my skimmer. I agree with you guys that for such a small tank, I think a skimmer is pretty redundant.

My moola will be mainly spend on the following stuff then:

Crystal Glass Tank

Eheim hang on filter 2041

Live Rock and Sand

PAR38 LED 20k. I want my Corals to be Brightly colored!

Cooling fan hopefully to be upgraded to a Chiller ASAP

Live Stock to be gradually included:

Turbo Snails

Pair of True Perc RED clowns

Shrimp

Corals:

LONG LONG LIST. Still researching.

Xenia, probably the fiji kind and many more.

Blue Sponge.

Zoas.

Mushies

Bubble Coral

I'm looking at getting small frags and growing them. I think it be way more fun and satisfying.

then when I get my Chiller

Birdnest

Sun Coral

SPSes

What do you guys think? =)

[comycus]

I like your plan bro. V. good to see your research paying off

Just some 2 cents worth. Plans are normally made to be be changed, so stay flexible. But most imptly is don't do impulse purchases. Sometimes a trip to the LFS might result in buying something u never thought of keeping, coz the temptation will definitely be there. As long as you have done your hw, you will know whether your tank can support, whether adding this particular fish will wreak havoc in your tank etc.

Happy reefing bro! Can start calling the tank makers for quotations.

[raydiative]

sorry but i am lost within all the good advises that the guys are giving here.. but what is the tank size you are looking at??

[AloysiusMun]

I mailed Vincent already, awaiting quotation. Hopefully not too pricey. =)

Fixed my mind on 1.5x1x1feet, too much volume not nice. Will be careful with stocking since there is no room for error in such a small tank.

It be a challenge but a good one.

Which part of Singapore do you live in Comycus? I live in the East, Siglap area. =)

[comycus]

Eh? I thought you were going ahead with the 1.8x1.5x1.5!

Well since it's a 11 gallon pico, your choice of fishes are extremely limited. Can look at liveaquaria for a guide. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15+2124

I don't think you can keep clowns in the small tank bro.

I live in the West, Upper Bukit Timah area.

[albinosage]

Hi Aloysius, glad to see such great thoughts put into the planning of your tank.

Would like to point out though, that the PAR 38 LED lights would not be enough for your tank if you are planning to keep corals that demand a lot of light. I believe the PAR 38 spotlight has only 5 x 3W LEDs, might be enough for a 1ft cube, but definitely not enough for a longish tank, especially with the spotlight effect. You should look into getting two of them or reconsider your lighting, a good example of this set up is FuEl's 5G pico tank.

As for the idea of exporting nutrients with macroalgae like chaeto, make sure you hang them in a high flow area with light... but that would be a prime location for your corals also and would disturb your view of the tank as well (assuming you are putting it in the display area since your tank is sumpless)

[qwertman321]

yes it is possible not to use a chiller for nano.

i did not use a chiller for my current 4 feet tank ( not even a fan)

i just soak ice change every 2 hrs , sleeping on air con HEHE !

oh... and reguarding the earlier post, why did u say not to have direct sunlight?

Anyway , i think having a sump tank would be very good and useful... last time my 2 feet tank no sump very jialat...

very hard to find space... get skimmer still must put inside display tank .... not a nice sight

want to run carbon , phosphate media also very hard... need either canister filter or FR but both also cannot fit in tank....

So now a sump for me is a must!

[raydiative]

why not get dr evil's tankset??

[AloysiusMun]

@radiative: Don't really like cubes you see. Just doesn't look right to me.

@binosage: yes, yes lighting is still a very big issue now. Managed to fix up my mind on more or less everything EXCEPT for the lighting.

@comycus: according to the site i think you can! hahaa. Will just be a pair, it should be fine.

I can't afford to add more heat to the tank. Why is LED lighting so EXPENSIVE?#$%^&*

[comycus]

Think it says min recommended for clowns are 20g?

Dun think they will have space to swim once u add in rocks. I've seen them in the jbj 28g n i think tts about the smallest tank for putting clowns.

[AloysiusMun]

Oops. Now I gotta rethink again...

[AloysiusMun]

How do you guys even keep up with the weekly change of water? A 11G tank will need 4.1L of Seawater, 20G will need 7.5L, 24G will need 9.1L. That amount of DI water is just insanely expensive isn't it?

The dimensions of a 20G tank would be 2x1x1.5feet. Need to do a lot more thinking. How to run the whole thing over since Clowns require at least 20G.

[AloysiusMun]

Currently replanning my tank to fit.

Decided to include quite a sizable Refugium with the tank. will show you guys the plan soon!

What are your views on the Oceanus led lights?

[AloysiusMun]

Finally finished designing my new tank! Was really busy these few days. DO tell me your views guys!

It will be a 22G overflow tank. With everthing else its about 33G (all the data is in the attachment)

The overflow pump would be Aquabee UP2000. Refugium houses mainly Chaeto sp. for nitrate and phosphate export. Decided to go the natural way, skipping the skimmer. Main tank lights would be Oceanus LED 24"x2 100+ watts.

The Bioreaction Chamber would contain Eheim Substrate Pro and a mixture of the Ceramic Bio-Rings. For Activated Carbon I would be using the ROWA activated carbon. Cotton Sponge for Mechanical filtration.

Corals I plan to keep are the simple ones

Zoas

Rics

Blue Florescent Mushroom

Heteroxenia

Glove Polyp

LS

Pair of True Percs

Turbo Snails

Neon Goby

Mandarin

Cycling would take about 6wks.

Wk1-3: Prawn with introduction of starter bacter culture and only substrate media in the IOS

Wk3-4: Addition of Activated Carbon and Chaeto sp. in Refugium

Wk6 : Tank should have stabilised by then

Is it possible to use tapwater for weekly change? I plan to stand the Tapwater sea salt mix with Chaeto in a transparent pail under sunlight for a day to remove the nitrates. Are there any other harmful substances in Tapwater that I should take not of?

Livestock would be introduced gradually. Do the corals have to be introduced gradually too?

Many Thanks Bros! =)

[comycus]

Can see lots of thought process into this project. Good work bro!

My 2 cents worth.

1. How are you going to cool your tank? If using a chiller, will prob need a stronger pump. Aquabee 2000/i would be better.

2. 12" width is definitely too narrow for any scape. You should really consider a wider tank.

3. How's the water flow like behind your tank? From your drawing, main tank >> filter >> underflow into refugium >> pump >> tank.

4. I would go with Biohome rather than eheim substrate pro or bio rings. Much better bio filter.

5. Your pump compartment of 5"x5" is too small to even fit the pump in! Problem would be solved if you had a wider tank. Your return compartment needs to be alot bigger as it will prob be the first compartment to run dry in any murphy.

6. I'm rather skeptical of using just cheato as the main source of nutrient export. I still recommend hanging a hob skimmer in your refugium compartment and having cheato to complement the skimmer. Otherwise the other school of thought if you don't want to use a skimmer is to install an algae scrubber in this compartment. Can research more about this, there are pros and cons, and many differing views on whether a algae scrubber only tank works.

7. I don't think sticking oyama or any other form of background to the back of your tank is feasible. After all, sticky material and water don't mix v. well. You will probably have it peeling in no time. Might want to consider painting the back of the glass with some reef safe, waterproof paint.

8. IMO, skip running the carbon until your tank is fully cycled. Run the cheato right from the beginning.

9. Tapwater is technically fine. RO/DI water is the best of course, but the reason we leave tapwater to stand at least 24-48hrs is to get rid of the chlorine. Best is to add a water conditioner like Seachem's Prime to treat tapwater. There is still the possibility of adding silicates into your tank, and promoting algae growth. That's the reason why some of us don't use tapwater at all. No point leaving cheato in it.

10. Yes stock up slowly on corals. More for your learning curve as you are starting out on the hobby than anything else.

[AloysiusMun]

1) I would try without running a chiller first. As I believe that the temperature here should be suitable for Coral growth and sufficient sunlight is essential for coral coloration. If need be, I would be running a Chiller later on with another feed pump. I do not plan to keep SPS at this point in time.

2)I am quite confident of my scape-ing and I want a narrow tank as I have to fit it in my room. Any wider I would feel as though I have a very small room! Space constraint la!

Would be using a Chisel and Hammer to scape the live rocks. Of course I have to find rocks that are already approximately in the shape I want.

3)Yes the water flow you quoted is correct.

4) I have been hearing alot about this Biohome filtration media, alright will use that instead of the Eheim. Would probably mix in other filtration media too. Any suggestions?

5) I factored in the dimensions of the Pump and gave allowance, it should be able to fit in as the Aquabee UP 2000 is less that 4" length, breath or height. I could consider widening the pump compartment and narrowing the filter compartment slightly.

6)Hmm Algae Scrubbers, that is something new. Jialat la, now new design again?! Lol. Algae scrubbing sounds like a good idea. I want to run all natural.

Perhaps I will discuss with the tank maker and see what can be done.

Headache la this Project. HAHAHH.

[comycus]

1. Won't have space for an additional pump in your tank if you ever want to upgrade. You won't be able to maintain a low enough stable temperature for your corals to survive in the long run. If chiller is not in the works, you will need to run a fan to cool your tank. Evaporation will be a headache, and you will find that your return compartment might run dry, especially on humid days.

The key in tank setup is to plan buffers so that you don't suffer any major damage/losses when murphy strikes, and trust me, murphy confirm will strike one day in this hobby. So take that into consideration when you are planning your return section.

2. If you are confident of the 12", then ok, it's up to u You wanna chisel your live rocks into shape!!?? wow okie, tt's a first I'm hearing actually. Be careful, coz some of these rocks are almost unbreakable, and others are extremely brittle. So yeah, keep us updated on your scaping in future!

4. Just need to run activated carbon, phos remove and bihome. More than sufficient. KISS theory.

So whois your tankmaker?

[AloysiusMun]

I will be running the return pump externally for the chiller if I feel there is a need. Two small PVC pipes will be running from the back for the tank, one on right and one on left.

Will run the fan if i monitor that my water temp runs about 28degrees. Need to save to buy 2nd hand chiller la. Hahaha.

I've been reading up on the Algae scrubbing. Seems like something I would be doing. Am pretty sure these Unicellular organisms would be more efficient than Chaeto. Thanks for the suggestion!

Back to the drawing board! Main Topic: HOW TO INCLUDE SCRUBBING UNIT IN COMPARTMENT 6"x12"x18".

p.s. No tank maker yet. So far emailed Vincent from AA and WeeYang from N30. Had replies but still yet to finalize my tank.