Wanting to Start a Nano Reef Tank!

[AloysiusMun]

Hey there! I chanced upon this hobby a few days back and decided to read more into it.

I realized its a very tough and costly hobby but I am not deterred! Been reading straight for the pass 3 days about water parameters, reviews and all online.

I'm looking at getting a very simple nano-tank, rectangular about 2.5x1.25x1.25 preferably glass as I am afraid Acrylic would scratch. Tank would be slump-less. Any suggestions where I could buy the tank and for how much?

How much LR and LS should I be looking at?

So far I only decided on one piece of equipment I would get which is the Tunze 9002 Reefpack200 HOB.

Need a suggestion for Lights; LED for less heat transfer as well as savings on Electricity bills!

A low cost but efficient Wavemaker.

Would probably allow the tank to cycle for 3weeks or so with a Raw prawn and only Wavemaker ON.

When tank is STABLE I intend to house:

Simple colorful Zoas

XENIA FOR SURE

Birdnest

Sun Coral

and MAYBE Bubble Coral

Few more weeks into Stability:

The inhabitants introduced gradually would be:

2x True Perc RED clownfish

1x cleaner shrimp

snails to clean the sand

1x yellow wrasse to get rid of nudibranches

and MAYBE a Mandarin.

Food- I am looking at Henry's Reef Gourmet.

Chemicals and Dosing-

Oceanic Sea Salt Mix (saw a wonderful 5g nano on 'nano-reef.com' run on this salt without even a Protein Skimmer!)

Coral FX (for cleaning of Corals before introduction to tank)

Test Kits

PO4 remover from MarineLife to be added into Tunze Skimmer

If all goes well then Grotech from Aquamarine for Corals.

Should Ca/Mg be dosed to help with the Corals?

Water change will be 10% weekly may increase to 20% dependent on water parameters.

Please do Comment your advise would be greatly appreciated!

I really can't wait to jump into this hobby! At least at home I can stare at the tank when I can't go Diving due to me being in NS. 3 more months to ORD!

Thanks a Bunch! =)

[yikai]

Hey there! I chanced upon this hobby a few days back and decided to read more into it.

I realized its a very tough and costly hobby but I am not deterred! Been reading straight for the pass 3 days about water parameters, reviews and all online.

I'm looking at getting a very simple nano-tank, rectangular about 2.5x1.25x1.25 preferably glass as I am afraid Acrylic would scratch. Tank would be slump-less. Any suggestions where I could buy the tank and for how much?

if you can, get a slightly bigger tank of 3ft. 3x2x2 is good. the size is not much of a difference from your choice and the larger water volume is better for starter aquarist. the bigger the water volume = the more stable your water parameters. get a sump tank if possible. it is a very useful and versatile thing to have. sump = extra water volume, space for more equipment amongst other things. i rather you get your tank custom made by either vincent from aquarium artist, or some other tank maker if you know any. enquire cost for a standard tank set up, basic one.

How much LR and LS should I be looking at?

How much liverock you want is up to you. The more the merrier but there's a fine line between just the right amount, and way too much. so up to your intuition.

So far I only decided on one piece of equipment I would get which is the Tunze 9002 Reefpack200 HOB.

Need a suggestion for Lights; LED for less heat transfer as well as savings on Electricity bills!

A low cost but efficient Wavemaker.

Would probably allow the tank to cycle for 3weeks or so with a Raw prawn and only Wavemaker ON.

When tank is STABLE I intend to house:

Simple colorful Zoas

XENIA FOR SURE (do note that most online xenias you see online are the beautiful white giant pumping ones, which are xenia umbellata. This species of xenia is not available to us but other species are. so read more and increase your knowledge regarding this genus).

Birdnest (Seriatopora hystrix, birdnest coral. This is a small polyped stony (SPS) coral. add this in when your tank is very stable, have stable calcium, magnesium, Kh and pH levels.)

Sun Coral (requires feeding as they are non-photosynthetic)

and MAYBE Bubble Coral

Few more weeks into Stability:

The inhabitants introduced gradually would be:

2x True Perc RED clownfish

1x cleaner shrimp

snails to clean the sand

1x yellow wrasse to get rid of nudibranches

and MAYBE a Mandarin. (good to acquire a feeding one, if not, will require stable tank with a large population of copepods to feast on)

Food- I am looking at Henry's Reef Gourmet.

Chemicals and Dosing-

Oceanic Sea Salt Mix (saw a wonderful 5g nano on 'nano-reef.com' run on this salt without even a Protein Skimmer!)

Coral FX (for cleaning of Corals before introduction to tank)

Test Kits

PO4 remover from MarineLife to be added into Tunze Skimmer

If all goes well then Grotech from Aquamarine for Corals.

Should Ca/Mg be dosed to help with the Corals?

Water change will be 10% weekly may increase to 20% dependent on water parameters.

Please do Comment your advise would be greatly appreciated!

I really can't wait to jump into this hobby (patience my friend! this is the most important thing in marine)! At least at home I can stare at the tank when I can't go Diving due to me being in NS. 3 more months to ORD!

Thanks a Bunch! =)

feel free to approach me regarding any of the advise i gave you if you don't understand or need more clarification, or just post here for others to help!

[AloysiusMun]

feel free to approach me regarding any of the advise i gave you if you don't understand or need more clarification, or just post here for others to help!

Well... 3ft would be too huge for my room! Hahah. I need something compact that sits nice and clean (in terms of clutter) beside my study desk in my room. One more thing, I am not a Fan of Cubes.

I understand that water parameters would be easier to control with more critical volume however I guess its just something I will have to make do with and overcome.

This project is my pet project, my mom is looking into getting a bigger tank once she sees results in mine. So this is like a seeder project. My parents used to keep a Marine Tank when I was like 4years old. I'm 22 now. Hahah.

I am not keen towards custom as I think they would cost quite a fair bit please do correct me if I am wrong.

I think what I am looking at is the Fiji Xenia but I think they would be very hard to keep! Are most Zoas photosynthetic?

Feeding the Sun corals with Henry's Reef Gourmet with a dropper should be fine ya!

[yikai]

Well... 3ft would be too huge for my room! Hahah. I need something compact that sits nice and clean (in terms of clutter) beside my study desk in my room. One more thing, I am not a Fan of Cubes.

3ft don't necessary have to be cube. Since you have space constraints, then ditch this idea. but i would highly recommend on a sump tank. It's the heart of the system and without one, you will really be missing out.

I understand that water parameters would be easier to control with more critical volume however I guess its just something I will have to make do with and overcome.

Not only stable parameters. More water volume = dilution of coral allelopathy (chemical warfare). improves circulation, higher dissolved O2 content, etc etc.

This project is my pet project, my mom is looking into getting a bigger tank once she sees results in mine. So this is like a seeder project. My parents used to keep a Marine Tank when I was like 4years old. I'm 22 now. Hahah.

I am not keen towards custom as I think they would cost quite a fair bit please do correct me if I am wrong.

you are not entirely correct but not wrong as well. although most standard set up costs cheaper, you are missing out on alot. A custom made tank will cost abit more but you will gain MUCH more out of it. in terms of workman ship, quality, space and alot more. basic set ups come with poor equipment too. i will let more bros elaborate on this. A tank your size will cost <2k. maybe slightly more.

I think what I am looking at is the Fiji Xenia but I think they would be very hard to keep! Xenias are a hit and miss coral. by nature it is an extremely easy coral that proliferates like weeds, but some reefers are not able to keep it. fiji xenias are very nice and is your best choice if you go for looks. the nicest looking xenia is Xenia umbellata from the red sea, which is unavailable to us. Huge white polyps that pulses like mad. the 2nd best compared to this will be the fiji xenia. Which looks almost identical. I have a colony of this which is growing very well and it's beautiful. Are most Zoas photosynthetic? All zoanthids are photosynthetic.

Feeding the Sun corals with Henry's Reef Gourmet with a dropper should be fine ya! henry's food is good but it raises your nitrates very quickly due to it's richness in blended seafood. In a small tank like yours, don't feed too much or too often. you can use frozen mysis too. it serves the same purpose. Watch your ntriate and phosphate levels if you intend to keep that birdnest coral

[jackywongto]

Hey hi Aloysius

Yeah I have been seeing you online for quite a few days on the various threads.

Kudos for taking time to research and ask!

Your post is so long that I do not know where to begin.... lol... I will skip all those that Lemon has covered and the same discussion that we have been posting on kksg2000 thread. Will pen some points for you to ponder.

Tank build:

Good decision on skipping the acrylic... definitely will be scratched.

For your tank size, you might want to consider building something like Tench1's.

http://www.sgreefclu...showtopic=85597

IOS .. but remember to get the tank maker to make an overflow instead of an underflow.

One point to note is that it is very difficult to scape with 1.25ft width. Would suggest you go for 1.5 feet width if possible. 2.5 inch might not sound a lot but in terms of scaping a nano, it really is quite substantial.

Sump:

Personally I dislike sump but would still advises beginners to get a tank with sump. But I think you must have your reasons for going sumpless.

How much LR & LS:

My tank uses about 7 kg of LR. I reckon yours will be around 7 - 10kg depending what scape and how much corals you wanna house. You will need to make more effort to search for narrow rocks as your tank has only 1.25ft width. The problem with scaping this sort of narrow tank is that usually they end up looking like book shelves if you do not get the right rocks.

As to how much LS, really cannot answer you cause it depends what is the eqpt, media that you will be using, what fishes you intend to get, how your rockwork scaped.

Tunze Reefpack 200:

I have used this for about 3 months for my nano tank which has a smaller water volume than yours. Sad to say, this is not a worthwhile investment. REason:

1) The mechanical module is extremely sensitive to water level. Once if the water level drops by 1 cm, the surface skimming will not work. If you top up with too much water, the water does not trickle down the medias in this module and the surface skimming does not work too.

2) The mechanical module does not have a drainer plate in the module. That means water from the surface will flow into the module and gets in very minimum contact with the media below. Even if you place a good amount of cotton inside the module, only a small part of the cotton is doing the dirt trapping work. Likewise there is very little contact with any carbon that is placed inside.

3) The skimmer is not effective. you need to strip it and clean in quite often especially if you feed some oyster food/ reef booster or uses epoxy in your tank. I know there are raving reviews of this skimmer on the internet (I read all of them too more than once before buying ), but pls don't take their word for it.

Qiang, Raydiative, Poomoon - they have all used / are using this skimmer. You can do a check with them on the performance.

4) Microbubbles issue - I encountered quite bad micro bubbles issue. Some of them are using the skimmer in IOS so they might not see it as obvious.

I would put my 2 hands up and admit I really make a mistake in purchasing this RP200. Would strongly consider you to get a IOS tank which can take care of your filtration and perhaps invest on a better skimmer like deltec MCE 300 or MCE 600.

LED lights

MaxSpect - cheap and good. most of the other LED lightsets cost about 2 times more. You will need the 110W version. Can look out for 2nd hand too.

Wavemaker

Tunze is very very reliable. Else can go for Koralia. actually so many brand to choose from.

Just avoid high wattage ones as they introduce more heat to the water.

Corals & Fishes

Lemon covered liao

Henry's Gourmet

I love it. But do note that feeding with frozen also causes your water to deteriorate more and your nitrate to shoot up more. you need a good skimmer and very frequent WC.

Coral RX... not Coral FX ... lol

a must for every reefer!

PO4 Remover

Think its a liquid that you pour them into the tank. not into your skimmer

Check with Henry before you use it.

Grotech

You are referring to Grotech ABC? Those are for SPS. You do not need them for the corals you stated above. There are other coral food suitable. Phytoplankton, zooplankton, oysterfeast, rotifiers, 5-in-1 coral food, reef booster.. then there are also other additives available... amino acid, vitamin C, garlic drop, strontium, iodine, trace elements..

Ca/ Mg

you will need to maintain KH, Ca and Mg levels.

OK bro... you owe me a cup of coffee if we ever get a chance to meet up... spent more than 30 mins drafting this.... lol.....

BTW. we are organizing a workshop for beginners. Pls feel free to join us if you are keen.

http://www.sgreefclu...=0&#entry915170

rgds

Jacky

[jackywongto]

oops forgot...

Welcome to SRC bro!

[AloysiusMun]

Is it idea to leave a tank next to a window which allows in morning Sunlight?

I just left a note wanting to buy the 3x1x1.2 Feet tank "Selling 3 FT (L) X 1 FT (D) X 1.2 FT (H) (6mm) Tank Excellent Condition, Recently Decommissioned by cullypokman" hopefully all goes well. Looks like a good package with almost everything in for me.

I can probably slot the 3x1x1.2 between my wall and my Queensize Bed. It will be where my legs are.

Will probably get the Deltec MCE300 instead of the Tunze Nano ReefPack.

Will probably scape the whole tank like a Underwater Cliff wall.

MOOLA MOOLA =(

[AloysiusMun]

O ya, regarding the course. I would only know closer to the date. Army commitments are very unpredictable. Will get back to you! =)

[DUCADOS]

The people here will be more then willing to asist u with all the info they can provide.

[jackywongto]

Is it idea to leave a tank next to a window which allows in morning Sunlight?

I just left a note wanting to buy the 3x1x1.2 Feet tank "Selling 3 FT (L) X 1 FT (D) X 1.2 FT (H) (6mm) Tank Excellent Condition, Recently Decommissioned by cullypokman" hopefully all goes well. Looks like a good package with almost everything in for me.

I can probably slot the 3x1x1.2 between my wall and my Queensize Bed. It will be where my legs are.

Will probably get the Deltec MCE300 instead of the Tunze Nano ReefPack.

Will probably scape the whole tank like a Underwater Cliff wall.

MOOLA MOOLA =(

Indirect sunlight is ok. not direct pls.

It is also good to place the tank where there is good air ventilation.

If you are going to put your tank next to your bed, some setup might have water gushing sound from overflow, pump vibration sound or skimmer bubbling sound .. these sound might not be audible in the day with ambience noise but in the dead of the night, they can be real irritating especially if you are a light sleeper.

Do note that tankset selling in pasar malam has a total length of 3.8FT (43")(L) X 1FT (11")(D) X 1.2FT (14")(H)

so it is not just a 3 ft length.

It would also be good to invest in a chiller. If you are not, then at least you will need a fan to blow across the length of the tank at the water surface to maintain temp at about 29 deg cel.

[albinosage]

All sound advice above, only 2 points to add:

Maxspect 110W will be too much for a 1ft to 1.2ft height tank. On the other hand, the 60W model is squarish and will not provide sufficient light coverage in a rectangular tank. You can go for the AquaRay, the number of LEDs in the 2 strip combo will be just nice for that tank size IMO.

Regarding the budget of $600 for the whole tank, it would be a bit hard to keep to it if you are going for LED, the 110W Maxspect and the AquaRay both cost around $500 if I'm not wrong.

Jacky, Grotech part A, B and C are not coral food, they are trace elements, not necessarily just for SPS.

[jackywongto]

Jacky, Grotech part A, B and C are not coral food, they are trace elements, not necessarily just for SPS.

Thanks Bino. I stand corrected. Recall this Grotech thread from AM and it is very much targeted at SPS. Hence my misconception : http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71287

[AloysiusMun]

Hmm good point about the noise from the overflow system.

Is the Deltec MCE300 a noisy protein skimmer?

I think I will stick to my initial plan as i think the deal for the 3+feet tank will not succeed as the seller is doing a first buy first serve basis and I am only available to pick up on weekends.

I am still thinking hard about going sump-less. The internal overflow system volume will not contribute much to the critical volume.

I may just stick to getting a glass tank with the largest volume I can accomodate which is at max a 3x2x2 feet empty tank without sump and running on a Deltec MCE 300 with a Wavemaker for a start.

Would you guys rather a smaller sump-less tank or a larger sump-less tank, both running on the Deltec MCE 300?

Seems like a very raw and basis set-up for now but i think it would work! I am still amazed by the 5G nano on nano-reef.com.

Just take a look at it! http://www.nano-reef.com/featured/?tank=35

[AloysiusMun]

Latest Consideration

Totally Nano:

1.5x1x1 crystal glass

Deltec MCE300

Chiller

Custom Lights

Sump-less! Neat and Clean outlook =)

[comycus]

bro you mentioned that your army commitment is pretty random... Will you have enough time to commit to regular water changes and monitoring of your tank parameters?

I only ask coz smaller water volumes will require more tank husbandry. Otherwise I strongly recommend you to get a tank + sump that gives you a gallonage of >50G. 75G better!

[DUCADOS]

Anyway $600 is really really tight interm of budget even thou it's a nano...

[AloysiusMun]

I can increase it to about 1k at most. My mind is quite fixed on the small tank 1.5x1x1 feet. I have already visualized and sort of plan the scape-ing and the livestock. Now its only for the equipment to put in.

As this is the last batch of recruits I am taking, I am pretty certain by the time I get all my equipment together they would have POP-ed (Passing out parade on the 2nd of July). By the time the tank has cycled, I would have already ORD-ed or VERY close to my ORD.

I think a small tank on my budget is better as its a lot easier to make a small tank look impressive as compared to making a big tank look impressive. The bigger tank would cost a lot more to make it look impressive. (Factoring in the running cost and the equipment cost).

I am still reading up on everything I need to know. The different nutrients and how the waste would hider the grow of corals and all. I learnt that corals are very sensitive. Not that easy. Better read up more! =)

So... Is the Deltec MCE300 a very noisy skimmer?

More questions would be coming up soon once I read up more and get confused! hahah. Thanks so much for all of you guys help!

[DUCADOS]

Erm... Used item lo??? Would turn your impossible to possible coz if your luck is good u can actually get good n reasonable item at dirt cheap price at the pasar malam section. Must be damn active lo n fast leg fast hand haha...

[comycus]

Bro just some thoughts...

1) With your budget I suggest scouting ard Pasar Malam section for good priced equipments.

2) I think a 3 sided crystal glass tank will be quite tough, maybe possible to squeeze at most 1 side crystal glass for your budget. Since you say this is gonna be an 'experiment' tank and you are willing to upgrade in future, can also consider going for normal float glass and save the cost?

3) LEDs are an expensive piece of equipment. Unless you know how to DIY to keep the costs down, the other alternative I guess is the Par38 LED. Aquarium Artist posted the pricing here. As your tank's pretty shallow, you can prob get the 40degree lens, and as the cheapest, is still $138.

4) Does your budget include addictives and other items or purely just tank and equipment? Coz looking at your list of salt mix, testing kits, addictives, food, etc. I think a rough estimate on these items can go northwards of $200. Food for thought

5) No experience with the MCE300, reviews on it has been mixed online. This is where I would like to upsell. If you think you will upgrade in future, get a higher rated Deltec. If you don't forsee yourself going higher than 100G when you upgrade, spend the $$ on a second hand MCE600. It will save you the $ in the long run and you won't be disappointed with the performance.

6) If you are getting a chiller, where is your pump going to be located since you have no sump? Can consider getting a canister filter for filtration and tee off the return to the chiller then back to tank. This way, at least you have mechanical filtration in your tank as well. Consider the min. flowrate required for your chiller and find a canister that can match it. Take into account headloss too.

7) If there is enough flow from point 6) you can even do without a wavemaker. Otherwise I would recommend a hydor nano. Cheap and relatively better quality than those cheap $10 china wavemakers.

Lastly, I don't suppose you wil be getting a cabinet for this? Coz the woodwork would cost you extra $$

[AloysiusMun]

@Ducados: Hahaha. I am trying, but its not easy as I as always out and running around training recruits and involved in Sch level projects. In fact, I am manning the phone, looking after all the administrative stuff in the office as I am the one in charge today, reading up online and all!

Ok mind made up on the 1.5x1x1feet crystal rimless glass tank with Deltec MCE300 (such a simple piece of equipment but so expensive!).

@comycus:

1) Currently scouting.

2) Though its experimental, I am sure it would take me almost a year to mature the tank. Furthermore the tank would be in my own room so I would definitely want something pretty to look at.

3) Hmm another 20bucks to the 20k lamp. I like cooler temp looking lights. Produces hell lots of lumens though wondering if it will be overkill or to the extend of even killing my corals.

4) Lets exclude the additive cost, LS and all for now. Those I can add on slowly when the time requires. Maybe except for the Test kit and Salinity test kit the rest I can buy one bit at a time.

5) Deltec MCE300 already overkill the 600 is way overkill and I think. If I do upgrade to a larger tank, I will have more budget then.

6) Is there any other way to run the chiller? Could get an addition low cost Eheim external set-up to run the flow and activated carbon filters with bio balls though.

7) Hmm.. May have to buy a simple table and place the equipment underneath it. Wouldn't want to place my chiller in the cabinet.

Would 1 feet height be too low to hang my Deltec MCE300 outside the tank? According to my calculations should be ok. Better to check with the experienced to be sure! =)

One more thing, anyone knows how much will the Crystal Glass tank 1.5x1x1feet cost? Any makers to recommend please?

Thanks a bunch! =)

[comycus]

You can hang your lights higher if it's too bright.

Well, if your tank is only 11 gallons, then I suggest skip the skimmer and chiller altogether. Get either a fan or iceprobe to cool your tank and do ~10L water changes every 2-3 days. Watch out for evaporation if you are using a fan.

Don't need to run anything, just maintain good husbandry and your tank will thrive.

[marinakid]

i would suggest try to go for 1.5 width. 1ft for width it too tight for a marine tank. it is difficult to create a 3D view. unless you are very firm of your scaping and tank concept. otherwise likelyhood is that you will want to have almost every piece of coral in your tank.

just sharing my personal experience. i am having a 2x1x1. i find the width is too tight. cause alot of scaping and placing of coral issue. and tendency is that you will alway want to put in more coral and try to squeeze out more space.

end of the day, you will find yourself rescaping and creating more space to accomdate the coral. at least this is what happen to me.

[AloysiusMun]

my other option is to do a 1.8/2x1.5x1.5feet tank. Any suggestions for where I could get the Crystal Glass tank made?

@comycus: The lights you suggested is just a bulb ya? How can I mount it to my tank? A flexible arm to suspend it from the side walls of my tank?

[comycus]

my other option is to do a 1.8/2x1.5x1.5feet tank. Any suggestions for where I could get the Crystal Glass tank made?

@comycus: The lights you suggested is just a bulb ya? How can I mount it to my tank? A flexible arm to suspend it from the side walls of my tank?

I'm not sure if 1 bulb will cover a 1.8ft tank. Will have to check with Vincent, Aquarium Artist. I suggest calling him up for a quote on the tank too. His workmanship is excellent.

The cheapest tankmaker is usually Atlantic Glass Industry. But their silicon work is definitely not as fantastic.

An idea on how you mount the bulb here: http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=85119&st=0

Vincent might be able to provide more options on mounting it. Give him a call, although he's prob busy fixing Lemon's tank now. lol

[AloysiusMun]

Is it possible to run a nano tank without chiller? What are some of the possible consequences?

Would the survivability of the coloration of the corals be affected? Lighting for the tank would be crucial to coloration of the corals in the tank yes?

The Deltec MCE300 would mean that I could efficiently increase the bioload in my tank yes?

Do Corals produce nitrates as well?

Working on a budget really is not that easy. Hahah.