Sudden death?

[IIIEEE]

Hi pple, I got an emperor from a LFS about a week plus back. The fish was there for at least 3 weeks in the shop and suddenly it developed white patches on the body a few days after i put in my tank. It is not velvet Or whitespot as it was still happily eating for the past 5 days. Today when I woke up, the fish is dead. Can I know if any bros here have such experience? The fish was still eating well yesterday. What happened? Could it be cynaide taking effect??? The fish was from Philippines. PH was 8.3 like tt. NO3 was 40 ppm. SG 1.02.

Is there any problem with my water? The rest of the fishes seem ok. Just got a bit of white spot. Due to new environment. Please advise.

[yikai]

has the fish been coppered in the LFS? angels respond very badly to copper and prolonged effect could make the fish die for no reason from result of organ failure

also it might be suffering from malnourishment and nutrition deficiencies at the LFS. large angels need good food with lots of spirulina. nutritional deficiencies often results in colour loss and sudden rapid death. this is especially so in rock beauties.

it could also be cyanide caught but i might rule that out. large angels are easy to catch and are net caught. cyanide will be a waste on this fish.

it could also be brooklynella. brook often manifest themselves as patchy white films on the body of fishes. it kills quite fast too.

the above mentioned reasons are the closest i can think off. although some are quite unlikely, i'm gravitating towards brook which large angels are very prone of, copper or cyanide

[desideria]

It could be cyanide.... or maybe fish stress.... I had the same happen to me.. the fish was eating and swimming around in my tank for 2 weeks and then developed these Greyish spots and uplorried within 2 days... It was the powder blue ... haiz. My nitrates is also very high but the rest of my fishes is ok.

good luck...

[yikai]

It could be cyanide.... or maybe fish stress.... I had the same happen to me.. the fish was eating and swimming around in my tank for 2 weeks and then developed these Greyish spots and uplorried within 2 days... It was the powder blue ... haiz. My nitrates is also very high but the rest of my fishes is ok.

good luck...

powder blues are not caught with cyanide. don't have to worry about that.

cyanide is only utilised in indonesia/phillipines, and PBTs live in the maldives/sri lanka. so the range don't overlap. plus, tangs are usually caught with large barrier or mist nets. it's quite difficult to catch fast moving fish like tangs using cyanide. but it's very easy by using a mist net.

[IIIEEE]

has the fish been coppered in the LFS? angels respond very badly to copper and prolonged effect could make the fish die for no reason from result of organ failure

also it might be suffering from malnourishment and nutrition deficiencies at the LFS. large angels need good food with lots of spirulina. nutritional deficiencies often results in colour loss and sudden rapid death. this is especially so in rock beauties.

it could also be cyanide caught but i might rule that out. large angels are easy to catch and are net caught. cyanide will be a waste on this fish.

it could also be brooklynella. brook often manifest themselves as patchy white films on the body of fishes. it kills quite fast too.

the above mentioned reasons are the closest i can think off. although some are quite unlikely, i'm gravitating towards brook which large angels are very prone of, copper or cyanide

Hi Lemon,

I m not sure if the lfs copper the fish, as for malnutrition, I had been feeding it pellets formula 1 and 2. Mysis and nori seaweed. Then maybe it's brook. Is there any thing that I can do now. I am planning to do a 20 percent change of water by this weekend when I can go and buy water. I have been dozing bacteria once a week and az no3 on a daily basis. For now I had bought 2 kg of biohome and preparing to remove the coral chips slowly within a month. Please advise. Thanks for the quick inputs

[yikai]

Hi Lemon,

I m not sure if the lfs copper the fish, as for malnutrition, I had been feeding it pellets formula 1 and 2. Mysis and nori seaweed. Then maybe it's brook. Is there any thing that I can do now. I am planning to do a 20 percent change of water by this weekend when I can go and buy water. I have been dozing bacteria once a week and az no3 on a daily basis. For now I had bought 2 kg of biohome and preparing to remove the coral chips slowly within a month. Please advise. Thanks for the quick inputs

ok so we can rule out malnutrition. if the fish is feeding very well on nori, and formula 1,2 that is good enough for nutritional benefits for large angels.

it could be brook. brook manifest itself as a blur patchy white/greyish patch. and it's slimy in appearance. in severe cases the slime can flake off and trail from the fish. if this is the case, you have to do parasite control protocol. remove all fish, QT tank etc etc. but make sure it is brook first. if you had taken a picture better, and watch your other fishes for the next few days.

do lots of water change. why are you dosing bacteria btw? there is no need to dose bacteria once a week if your tank is already matured

[IIIEEE]

ok so we can rule out malnutrition. if the fish is feeding very well on nori, and formula 1,2 that is good enough for nutritional benefits for large angels.

it could be brook. brook manifest itself as a blur patchy white/greyish patch. and it's slimy in appearance. in severe cases the slime can flake off and trail from the fish. if this is the case, you have to do parasite control protocol. remove all fish, QT tank etc etc. but make sure it is brook first. if you had taken a picture better, and watch your other fishes for the next few days.

do lots of water change. why are you dosing bacteria btw? there is no need to dose bacteria once a week if your tank is already matured

Actually, there is no slime on the fish, it's only white patches and the patches were there for at least 5 days. The patches come and go. That's why I found it weird and the fish is always looking for food. I am dosing bacteria becoz my tank is only one month old. It's not considered matured yet.

[ayane]

Those white patches are stress patches. It is common in emperor angels. This are most probably cause by your water conditions. What are the levels of NH3 and No2 in your water?.. Maybe you can provide some specifications of your tank?.

[yikai]

Actually, there is no slime on the fish, it's only white patches and the patches were there for at least 5 days. The patches come and go. That's why I found it weird and the fish is always looking for food. I am dosing bacteria becoz my tank is only one month old. It's not considered matured yet.

does not sound like brook. i agree with bro ayane. if the patches come and go and it's not slime, it's stress colouration.

yes please provide more info on your water parameters. 1 month is too young to keep an angel. moreover a large pomacanthid angel. these fishes require table tanks running for at least a few months

some info on.

size of fish

size of tank

ammonia level

nitrite level

[IIIEEE]

does not sound like brook. i agree with bro ayane. if the patches come and go and it's not slime, it's stress colouration.

yes please provide more info on your water parameters. 1 month is too young to keep an angel. moreover a large pomacanthid angel. these fishes require table tanks running for at least a few months

some info on.

size of fish

size of tank

ammonia level

nitrite level

My tank is 3x2x2 tank with one blue tang, coral beauty, dottyback, 2 clown. Tts all for the moment.

Ammonia is 0. Nitrite I did not test. Nitrate is 40. Temp abt 29, PH is 8.1 to 8.3. Sg 1.02. It is a FOWLR tank.

Is it due to the topup of water, as I am using a fan, I have to top up abt 3 to 4 litres of water a day. I am using overnight water with seachem prime. However I have read tt many pple do topups like that to their fowlr tank but everything is ok.

Hope to learn more. Thanks for all the inputs so far. Please keep it coming

[yikai]

everything seems fine except the for unknown nitrite.

a 3ft tank is too small for an emperor angelfish though.

perhaps the cause of death was simply stress from being in a 1 month old tank which was not yet mature yet, for large angels.

angels require aged, stable tanks. especially the large angels.

there are many factors in the water that test kits cannot test, as well as psychological stress the fish might be going through.

[IIIEEE]

everything seems fine except the for unknown nitrite.

a 3ft tank is too small for an emperor angelfish though.

perhaps the cause of death was simply stress from being in a 1 month old tank which was not yet mature yet, for large angels.

angels require aged, stable tanks. especially the large angels.

there are many factors in the water that test kits cannot test, as well as psychological stress the fish might be going through.

Ok.... I guess I will let my tank mature for one more mth before considering to add in any angels. I will add other fishes first. Are butterflies less sensitive??? Like the Rancoon and the treadfin??

[ayane]

Best to test your nitrite levels. Meanwhile you can try to eliminate the whitespots in your tank before purchasing any new livestocks.

[yikai]

Ok.... I guess I will let my tank mature for one more mth before considering to add in any angels. I will add other fishes first. Are butterflies less sensitive??? Like the Rancoon and the treadfin??

let your tank mature for awhile longer. i dont suggest keeping angels in new tanks unless you are experienced enough.

butterflies are WORST. in my opinion they are one of the most sensitive group of fishes. threadfin and raccoon are one of the easiest out of the entire family and are less sensitive compared to the others. so add them in if you want but be safe, wait for a few months first. and solve your ich problem first. butterflies and angels, ESPECIALLY butterflies are extremely sensitive to whitespots.

[IIIEEE]

let your tank mature for awhile longer. i dont suggest keeping angels in new tanks unless you are experienced enough.

butterflies are WORST. in my opinion they are one of the most sensitive group of fishes. threadfin and raccoon are one of the easiest out of the entire family and are less sensitive compared to the others. so add them in if you want but be safe, wait for a few months first. and solve your ich problem first. butterflies and angels, ESPECIALLY butterflies are extremely sensitive to whitespots.

However for white spots there is nothing much tt I can do abt it unless I do hypo but I have shrimps inside the tank so tts out for me. I was thinking to feed food with galic guard and help them build up their health to let them naturally fight off the disease. I m not into adding medication to the main tank. Do u think tt it is ok? Meanwhile I guess I will just do water change this weekend.

[yikai]

However for white spots there is nothing much tt I can do abt it unless I do hypo but I have shrimps inside the tank so tts out for me. I was thinking to feed food with galic guard and help them build up their health to let them naturally fight off the disease. I m not into adding medication to the main tank. Do u think tt it is ok? Meanwhile I guess I will just do water change this weekend.

if the spots are not serious, you can build your fish immunity in your tank so that they will not be affected so much by the spots. it is possible to have fish live with ich without showing spots. just make sure they're healthy.

however, as ich is still in your tank, new fishes will get ich when you add them in. and you will have to build their immunity until they fight it off themselves. this is the issue with butterflies and angels. they are very sensitive and when introduced in your tank, they will get ich very quickly and it's very hard for them to be "immune" to it unlike your other hardier fishes.

that's why prevention is better than cure. you could try building your fish immunity, do plenty of water change, and wait a few months before adding any fish. that should help your ich problem. add your butterflyfish in a few months time. let everything stabalise first

[CFOh]

Actually, there is no slime on the fish, it's only white patches and the patches were there for at least 5 days. The patches come and go. That's why I found it weird and the fish is always looking for food. I am dosing bacteria becoz my tank is only one month old. It's not considered matured yet.

Hi, mate,

Suggested stop stocking up live stock for the moment....let the tank stable before further stocking.. you will enjoy more I think most of us facing the same issue while new tank setup...

Cheers and Happy Reefing...

[[V]tEc]

powder blues are not caught with cyanide. don't have to worry about that.

cyanide is only utilised in indonesia/phillipines, and PBTs live in the maldives/sri lanka. so the range don't overlap. plus, tangs are usually caught with large barrier or mist nets. it's quite difficult to catch fast moving fish like tangs using cyanide. but it's very easy by using a mist net.

hi bro, pbt come from bali n medan too if i m not wrong...

[yikai]

tEc' date='24 May 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1274714143' post='913061']

hi bro, pbt come from bali n medan too if i m not wrong...

oh yeah! ok my bad lol. forgot that they are found in indonesia. .__.

then i'm wrong about what i said before. they might be caught using cyanide if your pbt comes from bali/medan. maldives PBT will be spared.

however on a side note, PBTs are very fast swimmers and are found in tide zones where the currents are very strong. it is very unlikely that a squirt bottle is able to administer copious amounts of cyanide to a fast swimming fish in a fast water turnover area. they are however very commonly caught using large barrier nets. large nets are set up around the reef and the fish is chased into the net and hand scoop.

but there's still a chance that PBT's are cyanide caught. though very unlikely.

thanks bro for pointing this out

[samfsl]

let your tank mature for awhile longer. i dont suggest keeping angels in new tanks unless you are experienced enough.

butterflies are WORST. in my opinion they are one of the most sensitive group of fishes. threadfin and raccoon are one of the easiest out of the entire family and are less sensitive compared to the others. so add them in if you want but be safe, wait for a few months first. and solve your ich problem first. butterflies and angels, ESPECIALLY butterflies are extremely sensitive to whitespots.

+1

since the emperor did not make it, adding butterflies now even the easier ones like the threadfin or raccoon, would be a risky move. if anything goes wrong, butterfles

are the first to go. At the very least, wait till nitrite is 0 before adding live stock.

tap water has fluoride added to it for healthy teeth and may contain heavy metals too. using it for daily top ups will lead to high total dissolved solids in

the long run. try to do large water changes ( 20-30%), which should be ok since its a FOWLR, once in a while to dilute this back to tolerable levels.

wish u success with your tank

[IIIEEE]

+1

since the emperor did not make it, adding butterflies now even the easier ones like the threadfin or raccoon, would be a risky move. if anything goes wrong, butterfles

are the first to go. At the very least, wait till nitrite is 0 before adding live stock.

tap water has fluoride added to it for healthy teeth and may contain heavy metals too. using it for daily top ups will lead to high total dissolved solids in

the long run. try to do large water changes ( 20-30%), which should be ok since its a FOWLR, once in a while to dilute this back to tolerable levels.

wish u success with your tank

Roger that, I guess I will really wait a while before adding more fish... I will try to change 20 percent this weekend. Thanks for the advice given

[DUCADOS]

Didn't know fish can still eat well when stress...

So meaning hunger is hunger stress is stress. They can never be link or related???

[samfsl]

My tank is 3x2x2 tank with one blue tang, coral beauty, dottyback, 2 clown. Tts all for the moment.

Ammonia is 0. Nitrite I did not test. Nitrate is 40. Temp abt 29, PH is 8.1 to 8.3. Sg 1.02. It is a FOWLR tank.

Is it due to the topup of water, as I am using a fan, I have to top up abt 3 to 4 litres of water a day. I am using overnight water with seachem prime. However I have read tt many pple do topups like that to their fowlr tank but everything is ok.

Hope to learn more. Thanks for all the inputs so far. Please keep it coming

its unusual to have such a high nitrate reading for a one month old tank, i guess it might be a reflection of high nitrite levels instead, it seems some test kits

use different methods. the api test kits i use will show high readings for nitrate when actually nitrite is the culprit. do test for nitrite to rule this out.

if nitrite=0, nitrate is indeed 40, its probably a natural result of cycling the tank, hence many people recommend doing a large water change to freshen up the tank and raise the ph before adding livestock

hope this helps

[yikai]

its unusual to have such a high nitrate reading for a one month old tank, i guess it might be a reflection of high nitrite levels instead, it seems some test kits

use different methods. the api test kits i use will show high readings for nitrate when actually nitrite is the culprit. do test for nitrite to rule this out.

if nitrite=0, nitrate is indeed 40, its probably a natural result of cycling the tank, hence many people recommend doing a large water change to freshen up the tank and raise the ph before adding livestock

hope this helps

mind if i ask why it's unusual for a tank to have high nitrates for a one month old tank?

nitrates are the last product to be formed from the nitrogen cycle. only if the tank is uncycled, will there be presence of nitrites

your API test kits were probably faulty.

[samfsl]

mind if i ask why it's unusual for a tank to have high nitrates for a one month old tank?

nitrates are the last product to be formed from the nitrogen cycle. only if the tank is uncycled, will there be presence of nitrites

your API test kits were probably faulty.

thanks for correcting me, please ignore my comment about high nitrates, sorry for wrong info