Lemon's butterflyfish dominated reef

[puppet]

Hi lemon,

I have been following this thread, you really impressed me with your knowledge of fishes.

I have learnt much here.

May I ask a few questions?

1) What is the name of the fishes that your mum calls ikan billies?

2) How many are you keeping?

3) Maximum recommended numbers to keep per litre or gallon?

4) Could you give me some recommendations of schooling fishes?

5) Would you recommend to introduce schooling fishes first or later or it doesn't really matters?

Thanks for your time lemon

God bless

[yikai]

Hi lemon,

I have been following this thread, you really impressed me with your knowledge of fishes.

Thank you for reading, and thank you for appreciating what i have shared

I have learnt much here.

I'm happy that you learn something. feel free to ask anything and i will help you in the best way i can

May I ask a few questions?

yes

1) What is the name of the fishes that your mum calls ikan billies?

It is called the red spot cardinal fish, aka Apogon parvulus

2) How many are you keeping?

25

3) Maximum recommended numbers to keep per litre or gallon?

these fishes do better in a group so better to have more. at least 10 for them to do well. also note that these guys are very fragile, and there will be initial die offs from the main group. so take into consideration. when you buy 25, likely you will end up with half or slightly more. they will die until you reach a stable amount that can self sustain. schooling fishes are like this.

especially with cardinals or cromis. so always overbuy in hindsight to their dying off. die off can be due to fighting, insufficient food, or unacceptance by the other group members in the heirachy.

i won't reccomend this in a small tank. and there is no hard and fast rule of no. of fish/gallon. but let's use a 3ft tank as a rough gauge. in a standard 3x2x2 tank, i would say 10 is more than enough.

4) Could you give me some recommendations of schooling fishes?

normally people opt for cardinals and chromis as schooling fishes. but not all cardinals school well in the aquarium and chromis certainly do not school properly.

schooling behaviour in the wild is very difficult to replicate in your tank. since our tank is small, the chances of schooling is very unlikely. to increase chance of schooling, tank size must be bigger and also there must be an "apex predator" in the tank.

apex meaning a large daunting fish that is fast swimming and eat alot and is untouchable in your tank by other fish. this includes a tang, or a big angel, or butterfly or may even be a wrasse. this will intimidate your group of fish and force them to school to seek protection.

good schooling fishes include

Red spot cardinal fish - Apogon parvulus

Blue eye cardinal fish - Zoramia leptacanthus

although many other cardinal fishes school in the wild, none can beat the above two. the above two i mentioned are one of the best schooling fishes you can find. however the red spot cardinal is very fragile and may not be suitable for a new reefer, so i would suggest you go for the blue eye cardinals.

5) Would you recommend to introduce schooling fishes first or later or it doesn't really matters?

As mentioned before, a big daunting fast moving fish would initiate schooling better. it initiates a threat response so that the cardinals will feel safer as a group.

so i would reccomend adding the cardinals later.

do note that the "apex" fish need not bully or eat the cardinals. it just has to be bigger and more active. as big active fish is enough to scare the cardinals into a group. if you have a tank full of peaceful fish like firefish, clowns, this will not initiate schooling.

Thanks for your time lemon

God bless

[puppet]

thanks for the very detailed reply

Just to clarify

Is the Zoramia leptacanthus and the Apogon leptacanthus similar?

I have heard people recommending Apogon leptacanthus (Threadfin Cardinals), do you have any experience with them?

Thanks

[yikai]

thanks for the very detailed reply

Just to clarify

Is the Zoramia leptacanthus and the Apogon leptacanthus similar?

I have heard people recommending Apogon leptacanthus (Threadfin Cardinals), do you have any experience with them?

Thanks

zoramia leptacanthus and apogon leptacanthus are the same fish. the scientific names are synonymous.

threadfin cardinals are also known as blue eye cardinals.

they can be kept together in a school and are beautiful, but they tend to fight amongst each other unless like i said, there is a bigger fish to force them into schooling.

[BFG]

Hey LemonLemon, I managed to get my ikan bilis! I purchase around 30 piece for my 4ft tank. But the bonus part was finding what looks to be the flashing tilefish! It was flashing when I picked it up in the bag but upon releasing it into the tank, it stayed blue. I was lucky that they were swimming in the open immediately and it kept going for the 30 ikan bilis that I just purchased. Feeding them immediately was my top priority.

Actually, there is another smaller fish I saw that is more close to a ikan bilis, it's the aioliops megastigma. There were a few bags of them while I was there. Kept them before but they end up as fish fodder for my green wrasse and chalk basslet. I knew they would also be consumed if I add them with the tilefish so I gave them a pass.

[yikai]

Hey LemonLemon, I managed to get my ikan bilis! I purchase around 30 piece for my 4ft tank. But the bonus part was finding what looks to be the flashing tilefish! It was flashing when I picked it up in the bag but upon releasing it into the tank, it stayed blue. I was lucky that they were swimming in the open immediately and it kept going for the 30 ikan bilis that I just purchased. Feeding them immediately was my top priority.

Actually, there is another smaller fish I saw that is more close to a ikan bilis, it's the aioliops megastigma. There were a few bags of them while I was there. Kept them before but they end up as fish fodder for my green wrasse and chalk basslet. I knew they would also be consumed if I add them with the tilefish so I gave them a pass.

nice purchase on the cardinals! remember to feed them cyclopeeze, and alot of it initially to pump up body weight. this 1-2 weeks is the crucial period. after they survive this they will be bullet proof. don't be disheartened if you lose some.

flashing tilefish is not rare in Singapore. it is sporadically imported via philippine shipments at iwarna or ahbeng. but they always come in either too big or very unhealthy and in very few pieces. flashing tilefishes only flash when frightened. so when established in your tank, it will remain blue. this is another plus point for being early for philippine shipments and having a good eye for rarities

Aioliops megastigma is very difficult to feed and only takes bbs or cyclopeeze. their lifespan in captivity is short and are easily lost due to stress, being eaten, or starvation.

[FuEl]

Aioliops megastigma is very difficult to feed and only takes bbs or cyclopeeze. their lifespan in captivity is short and are easily lost due to stress, being eaten, or starvation.

No. 1 killer is jumping out of the tank. This happens if your lights off abruptly. The fishes will go into a mad dash and very likely to end up on the floor or in your overflow box. You probably need dimmable lights for them.

[yikai]

No. 1 killer is jumping out of the tank. This happens if your lights off abruptly. The fishes will go into a mad dash and very likely to end up on the floor or in your overflow box. You probably need dimmable lights for them.

big and deep tank most probably won't be as bad.

you kept them in a pico tank so it's different.

i kept them before in my old tank but they did not last 1 day. all got eaten.

[BFG]

The flashing tilefish size that I got was just nice. I did saw the skunk tilefish while I was there but their size was too large for my taste so I gave them a pass. Now aiming for the purple tilefish, kept them before but they perish due to a freak accident, the fake live rock fell on both of them, cutting both their head open.

[yikai]

The flashing tilefish size that I got was just nice. I did saw the skunk tilefish while I was there but their size was too large for my taste so I gave them a pass. Now aiming for the purple tilefish, kept them before but they perish due to a freak accident, the fake live rock fell on both of them, cutting both their head open.

ouch. what a painful way to die.

yes small sized flashing tilefish is quite uncommon. usually only big ones come. small ones adapt easier and feed nicely. but hey, it's a common fish so you can always replace it iwarna always bring in. followed by ah beng.

[yikai]

big thanks to cedric and wilson for the SPS frags. very healthy and i hope i do them justice.

[wilsontantw]

Huge spacious tank lemon! Definitely the photos don't do it justice!

Am sure the frags will do well in your tank. Polyps already showing yeah?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the frag u gave me too. Seems pretty ok.

Oh I heard... U got some nice and new stuff today huh..

Pity I wasn't there.

[yikai]

Huge spacious tank lemon! Definitely the photos don't do it justice!

Am sure the frags will do well in your tank. Polyps already showing yeah?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on the frag u gave me too. Seems pretty ok.

Oh I heard... U got some nice and new stuff today huh..

Pity I wasn't there.

polyps extended minutes after you left.

very healthy frags.

yes i got a green slimer and another green something.

green green green all green. -.-

[kueytoc]

Mmmmm...I wonder who is this 'Richie Rich'...the Poor Little Rich Boy. Heh Heh

[yikai]

Mmmmm...I wonder who is this 'Richie Rich'...the Poor Little Rich Boy. Heh Heh

!! so ugly. don't post here.

anyway i did not buy those.

[kueytoc]

Yeah I certainly agree...beri 'UGLY' fella. Hee Hee

!! so ugly. don't post here.

anyway i did not buy those.

[MarcoVan]

Mmmmm...I wonder who is this 'Richie Rich'...the Poor Little Rich Boy. Heh Heh

GREAT STUFF!!

[Digiman]

How's your female psychedelic wrasse, is it really eating pellets? It'll awesome if u can get a male and female:

[Digiman]

And your blood red hawkfish (Cirrhitops fasciatus), though it's a small hawkfish, it's still a hawkfish and if u add it in, your parvulus will be gone in an even faster time.

[Terryz_]

And your blood red hawkfish (Cirrhitops fasciatus), though it's a small hawkfish, it's still a hawkfish and if u add it in, your parvulus will be gone in an even faster time.

But it is very nice leh...

[yikai]

How's your female psychedelic wrasse, is it really eating pellets? It'll awesome if u can get a male and female:

aunty say eating pellets and mysis and everything. i never try. ytd put in, went into the sand liao.

i also want a male. gorgeous man but cannot get one.

And your blood red hawkfish (Cirrhitops fasciatus), though it's a small hawkfish, it's still a hawkfish and if u add it in, your parvulus will be gone in an even faster time.

today i will be catching out my parvulus, bartletts and randalls.

can't stand all these nonsense fish. dunno why i buy. bartletts too fierce, one is already a full male now.

the randalls im getting bored of them and the parvulus i'm giving away to someone who has a school of 30!

[Digiman]

aunty say eating pellets and mysis and everything. i never try. ytd put in, went into the sand liao.

i also want a male. gorgeous man but cannot get one.

today i will be catching out my parvulus, bartletts and randalls.

can't stand all these nonsense fish. dunno why i buy. bartletts too fierce, one is already a full male now.

the randalls im getting bored of them and the parvulus i'm giving away to someone who has a school of 30!

Get two or three psy heads and hope one turn into male. Bartletts are so damn aggressive, but they are also one of the nicest. Good luck on catching the anthias, they are v hard to catch without tearing the tank down.

[lcf425]

digi i think you should get lem bartlett since you heard that ventralis will be encourage to feed better^^

[vt_snowman87]

bartletts i like! too bad now cannot add any new fish..

bro lemon ur sps-es looking good..

[yikai]

Get two or three psy heads and hope one turn into male. Bartletts are so damn aggressive, but they are also one of the nicest. Good luck on catching the anthias, they are v hard to catch without tearing the tank down.

i just caught 1. my roseafascia was flashing at one of the 5 and the bartlett jumped out by a narrow 1 inch gap in my egg crate and landed on the eggcrate. i was there to witness and transferred into my sump.

good roseafascia!

bartletts i like! too bad now cannot add any new fish..

bro lemon ur sps-es looking good..

thanks! i got 2 more sps over the weekend.

i like the green slimer. very nice.