fishless reef tank

[zorden]

Hi guys due to the recent demise of my fishes, i am quite hesitant to add any more fishes to my tank however my coral are still doing well. (keeping fingers cross)

my water parameters as follows

No3: 5 or lesser

po4: 0.03 or lesser

Salinity 1.023-1.025

temp around 24-26 degree Celsius

coral supplement :Zeofood and zeobak

skimmer: XP 2000 reef octopus.

and well dosing marc weiss coral food every wkly as i have my zeovit reactor running

carbon is zeovit carbon.

well so far, pods, everythings are growing well..

sps doing ok, its surviving.

yumas. growing bigger,

mushroom not much diff

and just my fishes are GONE... so guys,, is it okay for my tank to be without fish. i really don mind a tank without fish? yes my snail still surviving. any implication for a fishless reef

[zorden]

[MOssrope]

whats the reason for the fishes' demise

[fishiee]

A fishless tank is fine. I keep a fishless tank myself. There are several advantages to not keeping fishes;

1. lower biological load; due to the lack of needing to feed fish

2. pod growth, as there are no fishes to eat the pods

3. no need to worry about your corals getting nipped by fish

The only practical disadvantage of not keeping fish is the loss of a source of detritus, which corals consume as a food source. however, this disadvantage is negated by increased pod growth

There are of course benefits to keeping fishes as well

1. Decorate your tank

2. Some fish eat algae, e.g. tangs, they help clean up for you

The choice is enitrely up to you. If you are happy with a fishless tank and wish to mantain everythig status quo, go ahead.

And one last thing; like MOssrope said, you will need to determine the cause of the fishes death. If it is due to fighting/underfeeding, or something like that, its ok. We just want to make sure there is nothing sinister in your tank (e.g. a mantis shrimp eating your fishes). An unidentified problem in a reef tank WILL come back to haunt you later (a mantis shrimp has the ability to smash your tank glass and split your fingers)

[Sea_Urchin]

Hi Zorden, it is indeed very discouraging when all your fishes die on you. It has occured to me twice. The first time happened because I overdosed Kalkwasser into my tank, and the second time I believe was due to overdosage of vodka which increased the bacteria activity in my water. The more vulnerable fishes started getting whitespot and popeye and died after a while.

My tank has since stabilized and I am keeping close to ten fishes in my tank.

Do you check you PH? Does it fluctuate alot in your tank?

[zorden]

There is no mantis as my lr is recycled from my previous tank. its dead, cocked, cycle then introduce the fishes which somehow die of some illness$ the possible cause will be my hand cream or ick.

[zorden]

Is it necessary to chk the ph when I don't use cr? I never really check ph only when I use cr. Well adding a cr soon.

[Creetin]

*high five*

hey man same as u. i started the year with a 6line wrasse and a sally light foot crab. now all gone...so just add corals untill corals stable then i add the usual suspects again, another 6line wrasse and a sally light foot crab!

implication? no need to feed fish, tank is cleaner. haha...

i find i can survive without having fish. I am more into corals

[zorden]

Lol. I an ok for a tank without fish n I will just feed my coral every few hrs. Cool, us start a fishless reef club

[thomas_lim]

Zorden, you need to dose amino acid soon if you intend to keep it fishless for long term to replace those lost from the fish.

[zorden]

Lets talk about amino acids

Info from glassbox design

Many people scoff at amino acids. Some even equate them to the likes of Marc Weiss. While there isn’t any hard science directly applicable to our reefs on their use, I feel there is adequate support and observable benefits for their usage. Below is my stance and experience on their use.

As bacterioplankton (read bac driven) systems [...]

Many people scoff at amino acids. Some even equate them to the likes of Marc Weiss. While there isn’t any hard science directly applicable to our reefs on their use, I feel there is adequate support and observable benefits for their usage. Below is my stance and experience on their use.

As bacterioplankton (read bac driven) systems are becoming more popular and understood there are many looking to hybridize systems similar to our “method” we discuss here. But Bak and Carbon Sources will only get you so far. Trace elements and amino acids are especially important.

Lets begin by answering the question, do Amino Acids work in captive aquaria? In my opinoin yes, they do, but this is all relative to your definition of work.

Amino’s are a nitrogen source. In low nutrient reefs distinguished by overly pastel, light, and “dry” SPS their effect is quite visible. In higher nutrient tanks, not so much. If that was not your definition of “work”, maybe you’re a bit dissapointed… but they can be a great tool to increase nitrogen without increasing phosphates. I refer to them as a “clean” nitrogen source because of this. If you’re still disappointed take a look at this study:

“Synthetic amino acid mixtures, based on the measured free amino acid pools of P. damicornis tissues, not only elicit the selective release of 14C-labeled photosynthetic products from isolated symbiotic dinoflagellates but also enhance total 14CO2 fixation.”

Enhance 14Co2 fixation…wait, you mean growth?! (Thanks Gary) Maybe there is something to these amino acids after all.There are many studies out there showing coral uptake directly of Amino Acids, but you maybe thinking, SPS can also create there own Amino’s, this is still snake oil. While this is true, SPS can create their own let us not forget the bacteria, nitrogen manipulation, and increased coloration that they can also provide.

I’ve tried a lot of “weird” stuff regarding bac driven systems including nitrogen concoctions made up of aminos and creatine. Yes, Creatine. (Creatine is also a nitrogen source with an interesting effect on sponges and sea squirts which I will touch on another time.) I began my search in the Amino make-up based on what I saw other brands doing, and what amino’s were shown to be utilized by SPS in scientific studies. I realized no one really knew what they were doing, including myself and quickly our tank became one expensive guinea pig.

I will not get into my own trial and errors because if it weren’t for the free pure ingredients I was able to receive, it would be an even more massive and messy waste of time. Also it seems these posts have been getting good readership and I would hate for little Tommy to go home and create a Glutamine-solution-of-a-nano-reef… so lets move to the proprietary additives out there.

Amino’s allow manipulation of nitrogen, and only nitrogen. (side note: we are even now seeing attempts of spiking Nitrate levels with KNO3 overseas) When nitrogen and trace elements are limited, bacteria can be limited. Amino’s and Trace elements such as Potassium are needed by the bacteria...for some sources citing this and a great place to start further readings, check out the articles posted by Gary White here.

With that in mind it’s makes it slightly easier to split up the Amino additives out there. Are you looking for a bacteria nourishment, or pure amino solution? If you’re looking at a bak nourishment, Fauna Marin’s Ultra Bak may be worth looking into.

Although it looks to be missing some key Amino’s proven to utilized by stony corals, it also includes Magnesium, Potassium, Carbon sources, and fatty acids. For those Dosing Vodka or a mixture like our DIY Carbon source this could be a very nice addition to round out your dosing regimen. (Another option to consider is a pure amino supplement with the added nourishment of Prodibio’s Reef Booster.)

If you are looking for a pure Amino Additive to increase coloration, or you just dont want that other “stuff” in your tank check out KZ’s Amino Concentrate and Elos Omega Aminos. Users have reported great things with KZ’s brand and having seen the ingredient list of Elos it appears they have a decent “Amino-profile” when compared to proven Amino’s utilized in studies.

This area is still very gray and uncharted. If you decide to use amino acids I urge you to document your progress and make it available for other hobbyists so we can learn more regarding bac driven systems.

We recently stumbled across a study by Rutger’s University in a Biotech Journal. It was comparing the growth of different carbon sources with the addition of Amino Acids. They found that each carbon source (and Carbon Source mixtures) created a unique population of bacteria; supporting that dissimilar carbon sources will develop dissimilar bacterial communities, and similar carbon sources will develop similar bacterial communities.

Nothing that shocking there, but what they did find was by introducing certain amino acids, the communities were similar to those that were developed using dissimilar carbon sources and overrode population changes when in sequence. We would think that a bacteria population started on C-Source X but then changed to C-Source Y would take on the characteristics as if the population had been started on C-Source Y from day 1. But this is not what they found.

Only with the introduction of Amino Acids were they able to override the population as established by the initial carbon source added. Does this mean when changing to a mixed Carbon Source, Amino Acids are a must? Should we wait for a few months for populations to die off before changing carbon sources for a real effect?

I don’t know. I am not completely certain of the implications of these findings as they were done on soil based bacteria samples… but currently it leads us to believe, even more so, in the importance of Amino Acids in carbon dosed systems.

[zorden]

Zorden, you need to dose amino acid soon if you intend to keep it fishless for long term to replace those lost from the fish.

i dose zeofood which has amino. ofcoz when i have more coral, i will dose zeovit amino acid.. thanks for the advice..

[thomas_lim]

i dose zeofood which has amino. ofcoz when i have more coral, i will dose zeovit amino acid.. thanks for the advice..

No worries bro. adding zeovit amino acid on top of zeofood will be even better for your fishless tank.

[FuEl]

Cephalopod tank. Can add cuttlefish.

[zorden]

Fuel, do u know where can I get sexy shrimps. Might be getting a few as my tank is pretty lifeless but well most area in my tank is mid to strong flow. What a irony, having a fish tank without fish.

[hotsoup]

Saw a few at RB

[qiang]

haiz i tink i can oso join the fishless club le...caught 3 isopods in my tank last nite

dun noe when den can catch all

[Creetin]

my tank is fishless now. not sure if i want to get a crab and a fish. like e last time.... but the amino acids is new to me. may have to run out to get from Zeovit.

stocking slowly now. lost some corals due to lack of maintenance...oops!

[Creetin]

while we are it. i am on zeovit as well as some trace elements... aminos still needed? really?

i might use CV soon.

[zorden]

what is CV?

[zorden]

will be going for a final round of having fishes.. will be taking fishes from one bro who decom if my fish still go up lorry..

i will be keeping crabs and shrimps liao..

[Creetin]

what is CV?

coral vitaliser bro