How much is this ric rock worth???

[teebs]

i can confirmed chopped stamped...mushrooms are getting more expensive....in 2008 i can get a rock of fully cover purple or red mushrooms for $35...now...kns...at least >$50 a rock.

Still possible to get corals at lower than market prices but you must be able to buy in large quantities which nobody wants to these days...

Actually one way to get lower prices is for our LFSes to combine their orders and then split the shipment when it comes in but then again which LFS would want to do this???

Aussie corals are expensive precisely because our LFSes do not order sufficiently large quantites from their Aussie suppliers and thus are unable to get good pricing. US LFSes are ordering USD 50K upwards weekly of corals from Australia while our LFSes are only ordering USD 10K monthly at most.

[TayHongSiang]

Still possible to get corals at lower than market prices but you must be able to buy in large quantities which nobody wants to these days...

Actually one way to get lower prices is for our LFSes to combine their orders and then split the shipment when it comes in but then again which LFS would want to do this???

Aussie corals are expensive precisely because our LFSes do not order sufficiently large quantites from their Aussie suppliers and thus are unable to get good pricing. US LFSes are ordering USD 50K upwards weekly of corals from Australia while our LFSes are only ordering USD 10K monthly at most.

ya lah..our market is small...even for skimmer over here is more expensive.

[teebs]

ya lah..our market is small...even for skimmer over here is more expensive.

No choice lah...USA 200 mil people...Singapore...4 mil people...China 1.2 bil people...

[peacemaker]

its an open market, willing buyer and willing seller. For newbies, just do enough research before buying and there wont be regret.....if have...treat as lesson learned. Agrees that after this fever, the price will normalise(or all along it is normal but being "fried" by market forces?). So for those who bought high, hope for reefers who got vitamin M and will appreciate, if not, got to follow the market rates then. The principle applies, a collectable is only valuable to one who appreciate and willing to spend...if not...it is just a piece of "worthless" item.

Completely agree with this.

Lately, the bidding system seems to go a little crazy... people are bidding at prices that are much higher than what they could get at the LFSs. A fancy name, and prolly even a photo from the web (even if it looks different!), tagged with the coral on sale fetches a better price.

Its sad to see that a great hobby is shifting towards commercializing more than the simple enjoyment of maintaining a reef tank.

[Solo77]

just to add, some corals can't hold their colours and chge with different water parameter, placement, lighting, flow etc. Worst is melting. Hence before buying, ask whether u are confidence in sustaining the colour.

Just make sure u buy with open eyes and in right mind and state, lol. : )

Completely agree with this.

Lately, the bidding system seems to go a little crazy... people are bidding at prices that are much higher than what they could get at the LFSs. A fancy name, and prolly even a photo from the web (even if it looks different!), tagged with the coral on sale fetches a better price.

Its sad to see that a great hobby is shifting towards commercializing more than the simple enjoyment of maintaining a reef tank.

[yikai]

Its sad to see that a great hobby is shifting towards commercializing more than the simple enjoyment of maintaining a reef tank.

actually this sentence is quite unfair to some members. i'm not saying all, but there are some members who set corals for bid not for commercerializing, but for other reasons. for example, sometimes there's no price for a coral or fish or zoa because it's rarely seen. othertimes, it may be because there are many interested parties and the only fair way to entertain all is to just hold a bid and see how interested they really are. the reasons go on and on.

ultimately, bidding prices are always set very low and willing buyer willing seller. it is ultimately up to the buyer to ensure that he know's the price, know it's worth and know the product before simply bidding. also, responsible bidders should state terms and conditons, care requrement and availability.

i used to like selling stuff at as is prices, but with the increase in pilots, lurkers, and other jokers around, i decided to give frags to close friends or hold certain frags for bid. especially the pilots -.-

not saying that all bidders are commercialising reefers. most times they have good intentions and i know quite a number of them and they do have good intentions. ultimately, the prices are set by potential buyers and not the seller. so in other words, bidders really really want it and willing to pay more, or they really don't know the price enough to offer such high bids.

[teebs]

Completely agree with this.

Lately, the bidding system seems to go a little crazy... people are bidding at prices that are much higher than what they could get at the LFSs. A fancy name, and prolly even a photo from the web (even if it looks different!), tagged with the coral on sale fetches a better price.

Its sad to see that a great hobby is shifting towards commercializing more than the simple enjoyment of maintaining a reef tank.

Bidding system, the buyer is the one who sets the final price not the seller so it's really the responsibility of the buyer not to over bid for the coral.

[peacemaker]

actually this sentence is quite unfair to some members. i'm not saying all, but there are some members who set corals for bid not for commercerializing, but for other reasons. for example, sometimes there's no price for a coral or fish or zoa because it's rarely seen. othertimes, it may be because there are many interested parties and the only fair way to entertain all is to just hold a bid and see how interested they really are. the reasons go on and on.

ultimately, bidding prices are always set very low and willing buyer willing seller. it is ultimately up to the buyer to ensure that he know's the price, know it's worth and know the product before simply bidding. also, responsible bidders should state terms and conditons, care requrement and availability.

i used to like selling stuff at as is prices, but with the increase in pilots, lurkers, and other jokers around, i decided to give frags to close friends or hold certain frags for bid. especially the pilots -.-

not saying that all bidders are commercialising reefers. most times they have good intentions and i know quite a number of them and they do have good intentions. ultimately, the prices are set by potential buyers and not the seller. so in other words, bidders really really want it and willing to pay more, or they really don't know the price enough to offer such high bids.

Personally, a general rule of the thumb, sell the item either at the same, or a fraction, of the price you paid for it. There is always a price. Can't remember how much you paid for it? Get people to quote you. Your choice to decide whether is it reasonable or not. Bidding system more often leads to abuse.

It is true that it is the bidder's responsibility to know what he wants and set a price that he /she is willing to pay for it, hence the statement "willing buyer, willing seller". However, this statement is also a useful excuse for abusers to jack up prices to profit off others (ie. Dymax IQ3). Unfortunately, there are plenty of reefers who are new to this hobby get drawn to the hype of getting "good" stuff at exuberant prices when they could, with enough research (ie. visiting LFSs to find out market prices), get the same thing at a fraction of the bidded price.

Ultimately, it is up to the owner of SRC and the mods to decide if they want to cultivate an environment that is safe, educational and enjoyable for reefers, both new and into the hobby for many years.

[yikai]

Personally, a general rule of the thumb, sell the item either at the same, or a fraction, of the price you paid for it. There is always a price. Can't remember how much you paid for it? Get people to quote you. Your choice to decide whether is it reasonable or not. Bidding system more often leads to abuse.

It is true that it is the bidder's responsibility to know what he wants and set a price that he /she is willing to pay for it, hence the statement "willing buyer, willing seller". However, this statement is also a useful excuse for abusers to jack up prices to profit off others (ie. Dymax IQ3). Unfortunately, there are plenty of reefers who are new to this hobby get drawn to the hype of getting "good" stuff at exuberant prices when they could, with enough research (ie. visiting LFSs to find out market prices), get the same thing at a fraction of the bidded price.

Ultimately, it is up to the owner of SRC and the mods to decide if they want to cultivate an environment that is safe, educational and enjoyable for reefers, both new and into the hobby for many years.

i'm not saying i disagree with you completely bro.. just saying that there are majority of reefers here out to clear their frags or stuff at bidding prices and honestly do not have bad intentions. there are some reefers who on the spot quote ridiculous prices for a frag, with no bidding, yet there are always customers to buy. wether or not the customer is educated or not, i dunno. it is easy to say everyone is a profiteer when it comes to bidding or selling stuff, but its the intention that really counts. of course, its not easy to spot the black sheep or not. i agree on the new reefers who sometimes go crazy over seemingly rare stuff, especially when they are given fancy names. good example is zoanthids and palys, where zoaid has practiclaly fuelled the onslaught of fancy naming for corals. but this is not up to the seller. seller merely states the name from zoaid.

the MODS to my knowledge at this point of time, do not dictate what's right or wrong in someone's personal sales thread. we are only here to ensure the upholding of rules. wether or not someone is ripping others off, we have no say and we have no right as of now, to close, or steer it in our favour. likewise for people who throw prices for things. branded, rare and expensive stuff selling at dirt cheap prices. we have no say in that.

when people sell things at really really low prices, or even worse, give FOC, reefers rejoice and clap, and say wow great person for thinking of the community. but its the LFSs that lose out in the end. yet when people are selling at high prices, we are quick to blame and critisize. in both suituations, there's always a party that lose out. and as a moderator, its difficult when you can't do anything about it yet...

hope you understand what i'm saying. there's no right or wrong...just different views. cheers bro and peace.

[dachkie]

actually i kinda like the bidding system and frag exchange system, most pc forums locally also have been going via bidding style for their sales thread,

it gives people a chance to own what they want base on the price that they think its worth, potential buyers can always pull out when they think the price has gone beyond what they feel they are willing to fork out on a particular piece of frag, especially when most of us here cant afford to go to shipment days because of work schedule and can never get to keep a gem in their tanks,

so even if the seller gets to sell it for a price higher then what he paid for , probably he/she should be rewarded for chionging to a shipment and choosing a nice coral and keeping it in optimum conditions until it propagate.

like what lemon said, everyone wants to profiteer to some degree when it comes to buying and selling " buyer wants to buy it cheap , seller wants to sell it high "

i think its only bad if a frag is put up for bid but it does not get the price that the seller wants and he gets his friends to bid it at a price but he still keeps it, hopefully this has not happened and wont be happening in SRC

just my 2 cents no flaming please

[teebs]

Personally, a general rule of the thumb, sell the item either at the same, or a fraction, of the price you paid for it. There is always a price. Can't remember how much you paid for it? Get people to quote you. Your choice to decide whether is it reasonable or not. Bidding system more often leads to abuse.

It is true that it is the bidder's responsibility to know what he wants and set a price that he /she is willing to pay for it, hence the statement "willing buyer, willing seller". However, this statement is also a useful excuse for abusers to jack up prices to profit off others (ie. Dymax IQ3). Unfortunately, there are plenty of reefers who are new to this hobby get drawn to the hype of getting "good" stuff at exuberant prices when they could, with enough research (ie. visiting LFSs to find out market prices), get the same thing at a fraction of the bidded price.

Ultimately, it is up to the owner of SRC and the mods to decide if they want to cultivate an environment that is safe, educational and enjoyable for reefers, both new and into the hobby for many years.

I would say that most of the 2nd hand items that are sold on SRC are sold at prices below the new prices. Corals wise, it is a grey area. It is easy to say if you buy a coral at $100, then u should sell it at $80. But frankly speaking unless you are decomming your tank, it really doesn't make sense to sell corals at a huge discount from your purchase price especially if it is a healthy specimen unless you really want to get rid of it.

Even at LFSes, you will see different LFS selling corals at widely ranging prices. Some sell "premium" corals at "premium" prices, others sell "premium" corals at reasonable prices. End of the day, it is up to each individual reefer whether he is willing to pay premium or reasonable prices for the premium corals.

As for selling frags, it is a good way of sharing, regardless of whether the end price the buyer has to pay is cheap or expensive. This is especially so for reefers with nano tanks since they can hardly be expected to buy a whole rock of zoas for instance.

[yikai]

agreed with dachkie. i'm not trying to take sides or going against anyone here and i certainly hope i do not come across as being like that. just because you're there on shipment days doesnt mean you have the chance to get what you want. i have seen on certain shipment days where there are reefers who just sweep everything up regardless, and then resell them only to realise that's not what they are looking for or that's not what they want. its quite inconsiderate to others who went all the way there and did not get. this isn't fair to others who never even get the chance. think about them.

i know the thrill and "rush" when chionging to shipment days, and sometimes we get fogged up with excitement and just sweep all and bring home. only to realise that many of those corals swept isnt what you're looking for. think about it. there are reefers there who sacrificed the same amount of time as you too. the bidding system allows these rarer corals to be introduced here in this forum. of course i hope that the origin of this coral comes from fragging and propagating, and not part of the "rejected bunch" from overhauling everything on shipment day.

this is just my opinion and in no way am i aiming anyone or askign for a flame. if we're here to talk about forum ettiquette, then it extends much more to outside the forum, in LFS and in the reefing community as a whole. everyone has flaws and its good that we have these kinds of discussion once in awhile to reflect.

thanks... once again, personal opinion, and not asking for a flame lol..

[TayHongSiang]

just to add, some corals can't hold their colours and chge with different water parameter, placement, lighting, flow etc. Worst is melting. Hence before buying, ask whether u are confidence in sustaining the colour.

Just make sure u buy with open eyes and in right mind and state, lol. : )

i agree with you...posting an old picture of the coral for sale that is so different from actual condition is one good example from my personal experience.

[FuEl]

actually i kinda like the bidding system and frag exchange system, most pc forums locally also have been going via bidding style for their sales thread,

it gives people a chance to own what they want base on the price that they think its worth, potential buyers can always pull out when they think the price has gone beyond what they feel they are willing to fork out on a particular piece of frag, especially when most of us here cant afford to go to shipment days because of work schedule and can never get to keep a gem in their tanks,

so even if the seller gets to sell it for a price higher then what he paid for , probably he/she should be rewarded for chionging to a shipment and choosing a nice coral and keeping it in optimum conditions until it propagate.

like what lemon said, everyone wants to profiteer to some degree when it comes to buying and selling " buyer wants to buy it cheap , seller wants to sell it high "

i think its only bad if a frag is put up for bid but it does not get the price that the seller wants and he gets his friends to bid it at a price but he still keeps it, hopefully this has not happened and wont be happening in SRC

just my 2 cents no flaming please

Agreed dachkie. The bidding system is comparable to gambling at casinos. Can we stop people from bidding way above their budgets like how people end up losing everything at casinos? No. The person who is bidding should be mature enough to make a judgement call.

P.S Your Dac-mobile looks better in its new color.

If everything is cheap, there will be no progress in this hobby. If everyone wanted Arowana cheap, the Arowana hobby would probably still be stuck at silver Arowanas. Rising prices for is not necessarily a bad thing. In the long term, it will help drive the hobby forward towards responsible reefkeeping. Look at the amount of clowns that are killed just because they cost $1. If they cost something like $5, much less lives would have been sacrificed as compulsive buying is curtailed. Rare/unique pcs of coral/fish deserve to have their premium pricing, to reduce the number of irresponsible people from purchasing them.

I never have a good impression of prices being dumped. Consumers naturally feel benefited, but have they truly thought of the long term repercussions? They could end up solely relying on a single supplier to supply what they want, as others will not dare to bring in the stock. If that single supplier brings the price back to norm after the price-war, consumers will feel that they have been "carroted" and not buy the stock. What you get is..the possible total disappearance of a particular species from the local hobby scene as no money can be made already. For instance, the hawaiin yellow tang. Do you guys know that no money can be made from the sale of this fish in Singapore?

[peacemaker]

i'm not saying i disagree with you completely bro.. just saying that there are majority of reefers here out to clear their frags or stuff at bidding prices and honestly do not have bad intentions. there are some reefers who on the spot quote ridiculous prices for a frag, with no bidding, yet there are always customers to buy. wether or not the customer is educated or not, i dunno. it is easy to say everyone is a profiteer when it comes to bidding or selling stuff, but its the intention that really counts. of course, its not easy to spot the black sheep or not. i agree on the new reefers who sometimes go crazy over seemingly rare stuff, especially when they are given fancy names. good example is zoanthids and palys, where zoaid has practiclaly fuelled the onslaught of fancy naming for corals. but this is not up to the seller. seller merely states the name from zoaid.

the MODS to my knowledge at this point of time, do not dictate what's right or wrong in someone's personal sales thread. we are only here to ensure the upholding of rules. wether or not someone is ripping others off, we have no say and we have no right as of now, to close, or steer it in our favour. likewise for people who throw prices for things. branded, rare and expensive stuff selling at dirt cheap prices. we have no say in that.

when people sell things at really really low prices, or even worse, give FOC, reefers rejoice and clap, and say wow great person for thinking of the community. but its the LFSs that lose out in the end. yet when people are selling at high prices, we are quick to blame and critisize. in both suituations, there's always a party that lose out. and as a moderator, its difficult when you can't do anything about it yet...

hope you understand what i'm saying. there's no right or wrong...just different views. cheers bro and peace.

No worries... its a good topic for discussion. My point was also directed at the bidding system, and not anyone in particular. Just felt that profiteering can be somewhat minimized here through strict rules and regulations. Perhaps more limitations can be enforced on the bidding system, like no more than 48 hrs from the time of post, etc? I could easily put something on bid at say, 50 cents, but set my end bid at 3 months down the road. I'm pretty sure I'll still make a profit.

You're spot on when you talk about intentions, because if the intention is to profit off someone else, SRC just provided the media to go about it, if it is not governed properly. Then again, I really can't imagine any other intentions than getting the best price for the seller when it comes to bidding, but it could just be me.

[peacemaker]

actually i kinda like the bidding system and frag exchange system, most pc forums locally also have been going via bidding style for their sales thread,

it gives people a chance to own what they want base on the price that they think its worth, potential buyers can always pull out when they think the price has gone beyond what they feel they are willing to fork out on a particular piece of frag, especially when most of us here cant afford to go to shipment days because of work schedule and can never get to keep a gem in their tanks,

so even if the seller gets to sell it for a price higher then what he paid for , probably he/she should be rewarded for chionging to a shipment and choosing a nice coral and keeping it in optimum conditions until it propagate.

like what lemon said, everyone wants to profiteer to some degree when it comes to buying and selling " buyer wants to buy it cheap , seller wants to sell it high "

i think its only bad if a frag is put up for bid but it does not get the price that the seller wants and he gets his friends to bid it at a price but he still keeps it, hopefully this has not happened and wont be happening in SRC

just my 2 cents no flaming please

Unfortunately, the bidding system has many loop holes such as the one you've mentioned. I'm not sure if there's any way to prevent this.

[yikai]

No worries... its a good topic for discussion. My point was also directed at the bidding system, and not anyone in particular. Just felt that profiteering can be somewhat minimized here through strict rules and regulations. Perhaps more limitations can be enforced on the bidding system, like no more than 48 hrs from the time of post, etc? I could easily put something on bid at say, 50 cents, but set my end bid at 3 months down the road. I'm pretty sure I'll still make a profit.

You're spot on when you talk about intentions, because if the intention is to profit off someone else, SRC just provided the media to go about it, if it is not governed properly. Then again, I really can't imagine any other intentions than getting the best price for the seller when it comes to bidding, but it could just be me.

well like i said, imagine a group of people who desprately want's your coral. you dunno who to sell to, so you just say. ok lets bid this piece. then whoever bids the highest gets it. sure there's always a degree of profiteering, andits human nature. who wouldn't wanna earn some money? afterall, this is an expensive hobby and for poor students like me, sometimes i have to sell at abit higher. otherwise how will i sustain? this isnt bad intention IMO. its just the need to support oneself. or selling it to a pack of frag hungry reefers. who wants it, bid higher. just to satisfy this indecisiveness, an auction is created. there's nothing evil about that intention too.

and bidding is a big risk. what you think is special might not convey the same towards others. take my recent bid for the palys i made. i have never seen them before and in my opinion, are really unique and 'rare". but the colours are not striking, it's in a shade of white, dark blue and grey. yet its something i find extremely beautiful, and not even zoaid has it. and its my first time seeing it too. so something this special to me, i decided to set it for auction. to ensure someone genuine will buy it and take care of it. yet the bid only ended at $23 for a frag of 6-8 polyps of this rather rare paly. to be honest, this isnt the price i wanted to let it go. but since its a bid, and i can't do anything about it, i let it go at 23.

there's always win or lose in this bidding thing. and sometimes, we lose out. unless we use underhand methods like getting your friends to help you false bid and claim back your coral/equipment. then i really have nothing to say. its despicable and deserving of the title "profiteering with bad intentions"

[TayHongSiang]

Unfortunately, the bidding system has many loop holes such as the one you've mentioned. I'm not sure if there's any way to prevent this.

if the seller gets his kakis to help him to jack up the price...that one can't be prevented....its happening everywhere including properties, other sorts of products...etc...only you know whether that piece of coral is worthwhile for you to part with your notes in yr wallet. if you feel that frag or coral is not worth that price...then dun go for it loh...then you will not fall into the trap.

[peacemaker]

I would say that most of the 2nd hand items that are sold on SRC are sold at prices below the new prices. Corals wise, it is a grey area. It is easy to say if you buy a coral at $100, then u should sell it at $80. But frankly speaking unless you are decomming your tank, it really doesn't make sense to sell corals at a huge discount from your purchase price especially if it is a healthy specimen unless you really want to get rid of it.

Even at LFSes, you will see different LFS selling corals at widely ranging prices. Some sell "premium" corals at "premium" prices, others sell "premium" corals at reasonable prices. End of the day, it is up to each individual reefer whether he is willing to pay premium or reasonable prices for the premium corals.

As for selling frags, it is a good way of sharing, regardless of whether the end price the buyer has to pay is cheap or expensive. This is especially so for reefers with nano tanks since they can hardly be expected to buy a whole rock of zoas for instance.

I agree with most of what you're saying, bro, but what's the link to the bidding system?

I didn't mention that you absolutely have to sell any of your stuff at a loss, so I don't understand your post. If you bought X colony at X price, and you're selling the entire colony, by all means sell it at X price more or less, depending on the growth and condition of the colony. That's pretty straight forward. But if you bought X colony at X price, fragged the colony immediately and are selling the frags at X price each, that's profiteering.

[FuEl]

I agree with most of what you're saying, bro, but what's the link to the bidding system?

I didn't mention that you absolutely have to sell any of your stuff at a loss, so I don't understand your post. If you bought X colony at X price, and you're selling the entire colony, by all means sell it at X price more or less, depending on the growth and condition of the colony. That's pretty straight forward. But if you bought X colony at X price, fragged the colony immediately and are selling the frags at X price each, that's profiteering.

Depends how you look at it. Consumers will feel that it's bad. LFS will feel that it is good, they still get to retain their customers. If everyone buys a coral at $50 and sells half of it for $25 to another person, the LFS will lose another customer. If LFS closes down because of this, the entire hobby will suffer. Reefers who have been in the hobby long enough will remember the Paradiz Reef scenario.

[teebs]

I agree with most of what you're saying, bro, but what's the link to the bidding system?

I didn't mention that you absolutely have to sell any of your stuff at a loss, so I don't understand your post. If you bought X colony at X price, and you're selling the entire colony, by all means sell it at X price more or less, depending on the growth and condition of the colony. That's pretty straight forward. But if you bought X colony at X price, fragged the colony immediately and are selling the frags at X price each, that's profiteering.

My reply was in response to what you wrote:

Personally, a general rule of the thumb, sell the item either at the same, or a fraction, of the price you paid for it. There is always a price. Can't remember how much you paid for it? Get people to quote you. Your choice to decide whether is it reasonable or not. Bidding system more often leads to abuse.

My understanding of what you wrote was if I bought a coral a $X, then I should sell at $X or a fraction of $X which basically means selling at a loss or at cost.

What I was trying to say with the illustration of lfses selling corals at widely different prices is that the bidding system works in the same way and as buyers or bidders then we will have to decide whether we want to bid at inflated prices or walk away when the price exceeds what we perceive as being a reasonable price.

At the end of the day, even without the bidding system, a reefer can still put a high price tag on his fragged corals and there could be some buyers out there who are willing to pay the inflated prices. Would this be considered as profiteering also?

[m12345y]

this thread becomes interesting!

Personally i DO feel the Pasar Malam becomes a dangerous place especially for newbies...

[peacemaker]

My reply was in response to what you wrote:

Personally, a general rule of the thumb, sell the item either at the same, or a fraction, of the price you paid for it. There is always a price. Can't remember how much you paid for it? Get people to quote you. Your choice to decide whether is it reasonable or not. Bidding system more often leads to abuse.

My understanding of what you wrote was if I bought a coral a $X, then I should sell at $X or a fraction of $X which basically means selling at a loss or at cost.

What I was trying to say with the illustration of lfses selling corals at widely different prices is that the bidding system works in the same way and as buyers or bidders then we will have to decide whether we want to bid at inflated prices or walk away when the price exceeds what we perceive as being a reasonable price.

At the end of the day, even without the bidding system, a reefer can still put a high price tag on his fragged corals and there could be some buyers out there who are willing to pay the inflated prices. Would this be considered as profiteering also?

Yup! That's profiteering!

There is a big difference between reefers and LFSs... to one, its a hobby, to the other, its business. If the intention is profiteering, shouldn't the reefer start being a sponsor of the forums?

[yikai]

i think more or less the mods, and members have said wat they wanted to say liao. to prevent it from going overboard, reefers please mind what you say here and exert some effort to read before posting. but at the same time, do share your views and thinking. afterall, this is a good topic for discussion and its healthy to engage in stuff like this once in awhile. and its kopitiam! so post away! just remember what i mentioned thanks and good night

[peacemaker]

Anyways, I do not intend to cause any uproar whatsoever. If there's anyway to improve the bidding system, pls kindly consider it. This is with protecting the newer reefers in mind. Thank you!