LR Problems

[wolfie]

Hw come my LR will haf parts that are whitish like tt? I dun fink it when I bought it. Izzit normal? Hw abt the smell? I believe I read somewhere abt it but couldn't remember what abt it... hee :lol

[pospeh]

It's most likely coraline algae that has die off when it was removed from the ocean.

The rotting smell is another sign that die off of the critters that live in the live rock has occurred. Its all a normal part of the curing process and you just have to wait a while for everything to settle into balance. i.e,. don't put the stuff in the tank with any corals and fish in it until it has cured.

[wolfie]

thanks... but I'm like slowly adding my LR. So I guess everytime I add LR, s/t like tis will happen. Can I like put the newly bought LR in a pail and until all tis stinkin' thing haf pass den I put it in my tank?

[anakjoh]

Y r u adding LR slowly - wouldn't it better to put in all the LR u want at one go n let the whole cycle process complete - in this way u will less likely encounter "new" LR prob

Also, when buying LR choose those that u can see most coraline algae (purplish red crust) on it.

[wolfie]

err... coz I boh lui?

[BarraCudaTM]

if you dump all the liverocks all at once and if the amount is alot, that will foul up the water and induce further liverock dieoffs

[wolfie]

BarraCuda™: I like tt add slowly shld b a beta way den addin' all @ once rite?

[Tanzy]

If a piece of LR has >60% coralline algae coverage, it will be considered premium grade. Expect less from Indonesian rock. The white areas will be overgrown with coralline algae in time to come.

[hongqixian]

Hw come my LR will haf parts that are whitish like tt? I dun fink it when I bought it. Izzit normal? Hw abt the smell? I believe I read somewhere abt it but couldn't remember what abt it... hee :lol

You can cycle the rock in a tub/ spare tank also but you should run a protein skimmer in the cycling period. During the cycling period the dead stuff on the rock, killed by the scrubbing when it was harvested and shipping rots off the rock into water, carbon, nitrates etc. The protein skimmer will take away all that rotting gunk in the water, leaving nice clean water for the animals that DO manage to live on the rock(you'll want to keep those alive because you paid for LIVE rock). If you don't use a skimmer you might end up with a nitrate problem from all the rotting stuff which can be irritating if you cycled the rock in the main tank.

[BarraCudaTM]

BarraCuda™: I like tt add slowly shld b a beta way den addin' all @ once rite?

its easlier on the bacteria and yr pocket too

[wolfie]

point taken guys... thanks... but... I dun haf a skimmer! I'm sure it's fine rite?

[pospeh]

I would say a skimmer is essential equipment for any marine tank, especially for a beginner.

The various filtration methods such as Live Rock, Live Sand, NNR eliminates nitrates and nitrites AFTER they have been produced.

A skimmer will eliminate the raw wastes before they have a chance to degrade to ammonia, nitrates, etc.

So with a good skimmer, you eliminate the vast majority of the bad stuff before they are produced. And for a beginner who is likely to early-stock and overstock the tank, this piece of equipment can be a lifesaver.

[wolfie]

point taken... I'm have been finkin' of a skimmer 4 the past few weeks... But I dun haf a slump so dunno shld I find a way to connect a skimmer to my canister... Hmm... Ani advise?

[kelstorm]

i think the real purpose of the protein skimmer is to remove wastes (such as trace elements) that are not removed by the filtration such as filters or sump.. rather than mere wastes (shit etc) which is the idea that i get from the posts above.

the PS works in a way where the air bubbles surface slowly and on the way up, it attracts the wastes elements such as trace elements and they build up in the ps till it flow into the container rather than break down the raw wastes itself. that is done by the bacteria if your tank is stablised.

and yes, a PS is an essential equipment for marine, IMO

[Achilles Tang]

i think the real purpose of the protein skimmer is to remove wastes (such as trace elements) that are not removed by the filtration such as filters or sump.. rather than mere wastes (shit etc) which is the idea that i get from the posts above.

the PS works in a way where the air bubbles surface slowly and on the way up, it attracts the wastes elements such as trace elements and they build up in the ps till it flow into the container rather than break down the raw wastes itself. that is done by the bacteria if your tank is stablised.

and yes, a PS is an essential equipment for marine, IMO

Sorry but I have to correct you.

A PS primarily removes organics in the water. Why it's called a protein skimmer is because the the molecular structure of organics are similar in nature to protein... try blowing bubbles in a glass of milk and you will get big frothy bubbles. Do that with water and you get nothing. Similarly, the organic matter in water reacts to air bubbles in the water column and 'sticks' to the air bubbles as they rise up and collect at the surface, where they get stuck and are pushed up into the skimmate collection cup by bigger bubbles behind it....

Trace elements, plankton and other tiny stuff may get pushed out to a smaller degree but not as much as dissolved organics will.

Also, you cannot count on the bacteria alone to break down waste materials, that may take a long time... and by then, all the higher lifeforms may have already died.

A PS removes the wastes/dissolved organics/DOM/DOC much faster and efficiently then waiting for bacteria to grow fast enough to process them.

That is why a very good protein skimmer is recommended because no matter what the 'skimmerless' people say... you should be taking out waste organics faster then you can put them in.. via livestock wastes or food that you put in... or your tank will show the effects ie. hair algae, cyano, dino outbreaks.

It is happening in my tank now... as my current PS is unable to handle twice the load (under capacity).... I have hair algae growing like crazy now... I am looking into a DIY now... as I can't wait.

I have a good lobang for a good and cheap PS from Germany from my HK friend... but I can't wait... maybe I will pass my lobangs to my fellow reef club members....

Oh... and trace elements are NOT wastes!!!!

It is a good idea to dose Trace Elements into your tank once in a while.. to replenish them especially with SPS tanks and for those who dun want to change water regularly to replenish them. The Germans & japanese are strong believers in dosing trace elements... some US people are against dosing.

AT

[kelstorm]

Sorry but I have to correct you.

A PS primarily removes organics in the water. Why it's called a protein skimmer is because the the molecular structure of organics are similar in nature to protein... try blowing bubbles in a glass of milk and you will get big frothy bubbles. Do that with water and you get nothing. Similarly, the organic matter in water reacts to air bubbles in the water column and 'sticks' to the air bubbles as they rise up and collect at the surface, where they get stuck and are pushed up into the skimmate collection cup by bigger bubbles behind it....

Trace elements, plankton and other tiny stuff may get pushed out to a smaller degree but not as much as dissolved organics will.

Also, you cannot count on the bacteria alone to break down waste materials, that may take a long time... and by then, all the higher lifeforms may have already died.

A PS removes the wastes/dissolved organics/DOM/DOC much faster and efficiently then waiting for bacteria to grow fast enough to process them.

That is why a very good protein skimmer is recommended because no matter what the 'skimmerless' people say... you should be taking out waste organics faster then you can put them in.. via livestock wastes or food that you put in... or your tank will show the effects ie. hair algae, cyano, dino outbreaks.

It is happening in my tank now... as my current PS is unable to handle twice the load (under capacity).... I have hair algae growing like crazy now... I am looking into a DIY now... as I can't wait.

I have a good lobang for a good and cheap PS from Germany from my HK friend... but I can't wait... maybe I will pass my lobangs to my fellow reef club members....

Oh... and trace elements are NOT wastes!!!!

It is a good idea to dose Trace Elements into your tank once in a while.. to replenish them especially with SPS tanks and for those who dun want to change water regularly to replenish them. The Germans & japanese are strong believers in dosing trace elements... some US people are against dosing.

AT

i should mentioned the word organics rather than raw wastes or trace elements......

anyway.. i dun mean waiting for bacteria to break down the waste literally.. it would be a fascinating sight if my tangs shit and they get dissolved immediately.. hahaha.. well.. i think, IMO, trace elements are removed in the process together with the waste organics as well.. and thus the dosing.. to replenish them... btw, i used PS to remove the dissolved organics.. never cross my mind that it is being used to remove so much stuff as well.. like the broken down wastes

paisay, i dun mean to say that trace elements are wastes.. wanted to use something like dissolved organics..

anyway, learnt something new today.. btw, what is the PS u talking abt??? me interested leh..

[pospeh]

I would say a canister filter is a useless piece of equipment (for purposes of filtration and denitrafication), as there are much better method out there. I would even venture to say that it does more harm than good if you don't properly maintain and clean it. I would remove it unless you have no other means of water circulation. Otherwise, I just think of it as a glorified pump.

The essential equipment is a pump to provide water circulation, a skimmer, live rock or live sand (if you can afford it) and lighting (suitable for whether you are fish only or reef tank). You don't need anything else

As an aside, Singporeans should be very proud of the fact that we first introduced the concept of live rock filtration to the world. Lee Chin Eng first introduced the natural live rock filtration method to the world in the early 60's after he found that simply by placing live rock in the tank, the fish thrived. I think he passed away for quite a while already.

So its not the Ang Mohs that does everything first.

[kelstorm]

As an aside, Singporeans should be very proud of the fact that we first introduced the concept of live rock filtration to the world. Lee Chin Eng first introduced the natural live rock filtration method to the world in the early 60's after he found that simply by placing live rock in the tank, the fish thrived. I think he passed away for quite a while already.

So its not the Ang Mohs that does everything first.

never knew that..

[Achilles Tang]

I would say a canister filter is a useless piece of equipment (for purposes of filtration and denitrafication), as there are much better method out there. I would even venture to say that it does more harm than good if you don't properly maintain and clean it. I would remove it unless you have no other means of water circulation. Otherwise, I just think of it as a glorified pump.

The essential equipment is a pump to provide water circulation, a skimmer, live rock or live sand (if you can afford it) and lighting (suitable for whether you are fish only or reef tank). You don't need anything else

As an aside, Singporeans should be very proud of the fact that we first introduced the concept of live rock filtration to the world. Lee Chin Eng first introduced the natural live rock filtration method to the world in the early 60's after he found that simply by placing live rock in the tank, the fish thrived. I think he passed away for quite a while already.

So its not the Ang Mohs that does everything first.

Correction:

Lee Chin Eng was Indonesian. He stayed in Bali and did most of his research there and later moved to Singapore.

I read about him before.

[Achilles Tang]

i should mentioned the word organics rather than raw wastes or trace elements......

anyway.. i dun mean waiting for bacteria to break down the waste literally.. it would be a fascinating sight if my tangs shit and they get dissolved immediately.. hahaha.. well.. i think, IMO, trace elements are removed in the process together with the waste organics as well.. and thus the dosing.. to replenish them... btw, i used PS to remove the dissolved organics.. never cross my mind that it is being used to remove so much stuff as well.. like the broken down wastes

paisay, i dun mean to say that trace elements are wastes.. wanted to use something like dissolved organics..

anyway, learnt something new today.. btw, what is the PS u talking abt??? me interested leh..

Kel... wastes and dissolved organics are very much the same thing.

[kelstorm]

hahaha.. to me, they are different leh.. hahaha..

[pospeh]

Correction:

Lee Chin Eng was Indonesian. He stayed in Bali and did most of his research there and later moved to Singapore.

I read about him before.

[Achilles Tang]

Whatever enters one end of a fishy is organic, what ever goes out the other end is much grosser organics.

Decomposing dead stuff once was live organic matter.

Haven't you heard of organic wastes as opposed to inorganic wastes? Non-recycleable?

wastes, dissolved organics... same thing... MUST GET RID ASAP!

Geddit?

[wolfie]

phaw! so much details... hmmm... fink I'd sell my canister and get myself a gd slump wif a ps... hw's tt? slump... DIY! I'm like starting to like DIY alot... wil read up...

[kelstorm]

fink I'd sell my canister and get myself a gd slump wif a ps... hw's tt? slump... DIY! I'm like starting to like DIY alot... wil read up...

slump??? i think u mean sump...