Chek Jawa Live Rocks

[xnsdvd]

Hi guys,

I'm posting this to gauge how the general population will feel about artificial Live Rocks that've been seeded/cured near(approx. 3km) Chek Jawa and other small seagrass beds and intertidal reefs on Ubin's coast. Specifically;

1) Is a privately owned artificial reef, in an otherwise dead area harmful to the marine life in Chek Jawa? Or are we simply providing a new habitat for the fry/larvae that spawn there and would otherwise die when they get washed past ubin and into the malaysian shipyards/Johor Baru? Or is it opportunistic poaching?

2) Is $10/kilo a reasonable price for live rocks cultivated in our own "backyard"? My opinion here is that it's a little piece of my natural heritage that, unfortunately is being destroyed by the constant dredging and pollution, so I might as well take some home and preserve it before it's all gone. But I'm also curious about what everyone else thinks.

3) Personally I like the hitchhikers that find their way into my rocks, blennies, gobies, pipefish, seahorses, crabs, amphipods, copepods, moray eels, mussels, oysters and the occasional mantis shrimp. But what do you think?

4) Will a 5000m2 "hanging reef" that's harvested every 4 months have a positive or negative effect on the forage/trash fish in the area? I'm already noticing huge schools of mullet and tamban, going after what look like mysis shrimp, around my farm since we started dangling just 40kg of live rocks over the side. Opinions? Especially from fishermen with experience with fish aggregation devices?

[xnsdvd]

Oh! forgot to add photos!

A Seafan.

Amphipods I believe...

Barnacles covered by some sponge

A brittle star hiding amongst some seafans

What I think are tubeworms and a small green mussel.

[comycus]

Just a curiosity:Have you checked with the proper authorities on whether this idea is feasible/allowed?

I might as well take some home and preserve it before it's all gone. But I'm also curious about what everyone else thinks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you plan to buy or take rocks out from the sea, cultivate them and sell them off? Has that been cleared in your lease contract too?

Just wanna clarify, but it sounds like an interesting project. From a customer point of view, I will never ever buy live rock with hitchhikers. Great biodiversity but not suitable from a reefer's perspective.

Just my 2 cents, and if you eventually do commercial selling, do remember to talk to our mods on it!

[zorden]

Very nice. I love critters but i hate Mantis Shrimp. I caught a 2 inch manti shrimp in my previous tank. its madness.

But upz for you, your rocks is very nice.

[Harlequinmania]

A good idea would also be seeding " Nicely shaped" artificial rock in the wild, making it "alive" since it is so difficult to find nicely shaped rocks in the market to shape our aquarium ..

There has also been a discussion in Reef central where they create their own artificial live rocks using concrete and cements and turning it alive ..

[FuEl]

If you want to culture good quality liverock you should ideally find a place that has clear water and low nutrient levels. This will culture the calcareous algae which is what many reefers will be looking for. If you just suspend rocks in murky water you will end up with a lot of biofouling and an accumulation of sediment in the rock. Your liverocks will then take a long time to cure and they will release a lot of nutrients.

[cdckjn]

I think that there are many webpages talking about creating live artifical rocks. Personally this is one of my interest as well. I think that if we can take coral chips (seeded or used) and then mix it with cement / clean beach sand and then shape them on a foam base. Then we allow these "rocks" to dry and harden (2-4 hrs) then we can hand these "rocks" into the sea and then the sea grow life onto these rocks for about 2-3 months.

After which what we can do is put them into a "controlled" environment like a fish tank with lots of water changes to "remove" the bad hitchhikers, then the live rocks can be sold.

Interesting business - green and effective to save the environment as well!

[Gouldian]

I like the idea of creating artificial rocks and let mother nature do the seeding.

But I am not impressed with the stuffs that grows and hitch-hike on your rocks, they are more nuisance that what I prefer. Unless, you are thinking of setting-up another curing facility to clean and cure the rocks before sales; I feel the potential of selling them is limited.

However, if like FuEl mentioned, I feel that if you have the right location that is nutrients and pests free, your rocks may be more marketable.

HTH

[Terryz_]

I think that there are many webpages talking about creating live artifical rocks. Personally this is one of my interest as well. I think that if we can take coral chips (seeded or used) and then mix it with cement / clean beach sand and then shape them on a foam base. Then we allow these "rocks" to dry and harden (2-4 hrs) then we can hand these "rocks" into the sea and then the sea grow life onto these rocks for about 2-3 months.

After which what we can do is put them into a "controlled" environment like a fish tank with lots of water changes to "remove" the bad hitchhikers, then the live rocks can be sold.

Interesting business - green and effective to save the environment as well!

This is what Fiji or Carribean is doing... Remember seeing on documentary... But if it is not a large scale production of Liverocks and if there is not much market, I am not really sure if it is cost efficient,(I dunno the cost incurred by doing such business)... All IMHO...

[Terryz_]

Actually not very impressed by the mussel, Barnacles and stuffs... I am fine with Sponges, Tubeworms and Seafans..

Maybe you could invest in a another curing facility but I believe you will not be able to sell that @ 10 per kg...

[Harlequinmania]

This is what Fiji or Carribean is doing... Remember seeing on documentary... But if it is not a large scale production of Liverocks and if there is not much market, I am not really sure if it is cost efficient,(I dunno the cost incurred by doing such business)... All IMHO...

Maybe this can also be one of a good way of reducing the needs of importing live rocks from oversea as well ? Indirectly reducing carbon emission produce during the process of importing all these HEAVY ROCKS via all the air/ Land transport before reaching our shore ? Since Live rocks play a major role in the success of our hobby as well as the overall biological stability in the sea, it maybe a good alternative if we are able to have Good Quality Live rocks cultured ourselves. However, prices should be attractive / affordable in order to promote such activities.

I still remember a few year back where AVA started to control the importing of Live rocks and prices was at all time high ...

[Terryz_]

Maybe this can also be one of a good way of reducing the needs of importing live rocks from oversea as well ? Indirectly reducing carbon emission produce during the process of importing all these HEAVY ROCKS via all the air/ Land transport before reaching our shore ? Since Live rocks play a major role in the success of our hobby as well as the overall biological stability in the sea, it maybe a good alternative if we are able to have Good Quality Live rocks cultured ourselves. However, prices should be attractive / affordable in order to promote such activities.

I still remember a few year back where AVA started to control the importing of Live rocks and prices was at all time high ...

Ya.. There was a time, I remembered... But lucky not looking for LR at that time... LOL... AVA always come up with stunts every few years... Nothing is new..

Anyway, Off topic..

Would tag along to see if it works out... It is good to have local cultured LR.. But our water condition not that good for culturing Quality LRs...

[xnsdvd]

@comycus: We're hanging artificially made rocks off our structure, the only things we "take" from the sea are whatever starts growing on/in our rocks.

@Zorden: If it makes you feel better, we ate an 8inch mantis shrimp last week Was tasty

@harlequin mania: Yup, exactly what I was thinking. This thing partly started as an attempt to increase the number of fish that lived in/around the farm. Then we put one in a tank and realized it looked alot like conventional LR. But personally I'm attracted to the nuisance critters

@FuEl: Alas there is hardly any clear water in Singapore. And we've got high nutrients and low calcium levels. SG dropped to 1.015 the other day, sample was taken from the bottom of a 2m deep cage.

So yes, we'll probably have to set up a large curing facility on the farm. But that means running the numbers again and getting another round of investors. Which i'm not sure is something we can afford, time wise. I'll explain more once we start sponsoring the forum. But in the meantime, could I get a show of hands as to how many of you would want a "sample" rock? They're small, about the size of a golfball, you'd have to pick them up yourselves from Changi Sailing Club.

Also, could you guys post what you think is a reasonable price for locally grown, uncured live rocks?

[zorden]

But in the meantime, could I get a show of hands as to how many of you would want a "sample" rock? They're small, about the size of a golfball, you'd have to pick them up yourselves from Changi Sailing Club.

Ei. its not a very feasible idea of travelling so far for such a small rock. 2 cents

[comycus]

Just my 2 cents worth.

There are quite a lot of live rocks currently sold in LFS at various prices. Some exorbitantly priced, others quite reasonable. We also have reefers selling 2nd hand rocks at bargain prices when decomm. If I need rocks now, I will start from lowest priced upwards.

I always found that the most limiting factor to buying live rock is that you can't change the shape of the rock. So you either live with it and use your creative juices to come out with as nice a scape as possible, or hunt all over singapore for the perfect rock to fit your dream scape. Since you are going to artificially create the rocks, it would be great if customers would specify the exact shape they wanted or you have a few common designs for customers to choose from. Just throwing out some ideas off my head for you to explore.

Imagine having just 3 rocks to scape your 6ft tank And having your dream dramatic clifts and drop offs and all other fantasy rock scapes. I'm sure there will be a mkt willing to pay a small premium for such services.

[cdckjn]

I like the idea that you can even scape a whole piece of a live rock about 4ft in length then soak into the seawater for over 3 months then just insert the whole "rock" into the tank and you can have instant aquascape!

I normally would like to get my live rocks from 2nd hand sources like decom tanks as they are more reliable. Buy if local cultured live rocks are cheaper as compared to those imported, I think we can ask NEA for some sort of funding as we are reducing the carbon footrpint and saving the envirnoment and the 3Rs etc. I honestly think we should encourage reefers to go local.

I don't mind collecting a few"golfballs sized" live rocks to test.

[xnsdvd]

Interesting interesting... I shall take photos of my next sculpt. Ha! Learning fine arts came in handy after all!

[ReDDeviLs]

frm your research, it shows that our sg will go to 1.015 does that mean the nsw frm lfs collected thatday got abt the same reading? Likewise for calcium?

There r huge pcs of uncured lr, sometimes cured at $4/kg which i believe its very reasonable.

As for myself, i would prefer to sun my lr frm lfs n recure it. The location of getting the lr is also v impt. The lr may be polluted with poisonous or toxic substance which may cost tons of livestock to die in our tank n not knowing whats the reason.

Imaging buying a bunch of lr that is situated in a sea with oil spills n stuff?

If we talk about saving the reef, just get artificial rocks frm GO.

No offense, but i see no point and no benefit in having our own liverock locally.

Do also remember during your harvest on liverock, lots of small lifes will be affected which also harms the reef.

Btw, Please do not encourage picking of liverock from our shores be it big or small in quantity or sizes.

[zorden]

As for myself, i would prefer to sun my lr frm lfs n recure it

Same here. its will definitely remove the MAntis and other pest. Well just need patience to cure it and cycle it again.

[jc85]

Hi All,

Just for info, the intertidal area around Chek Jawa are known to be full of biodiversity and is an important patch of Seagrass nursery for many juvenile lifestock. Even the manatee has been recorded to have visited CJ.

Thus, I'm alittle concern if removing your LRs will affect the habitat there.

Cheers

JC

[xnsdvd]

Hi guys, I notice there's some misunderstanding going on.

If you'll take a look at my first post, we're 3 kilometers from the seagrass beds.

The rocks are suspended from the kelong, hence my only concern is that we're removing eggs or larvae that might attach to other objects further west. Which, as far as I know, don't exist since it's nothing but shipyards, industrial sites and powerplants.

And since there's nothing under the kelong but trash, beer bottles from the 60s and mud, there's no reef to damage.

Hope that clarifies things.

Anyway, so... what do you guys think is a reasonable price for uncured LRs? Especially considering most of us re-cure our rocks anyway

[ReDDeviLs]

like i mentioned, uncure lr and sometimes semi-cured ones are $4/kg and they come in huge sizes(more valueable) as well.

u need to beat that price since yours is uncured.

[Jameshong]

IMHO, 4~5/kg is reasonable.

[zorden]

Hi guys, I notice there's some misunderstanding going on.

If you'll take a look at my first post, we're 3 kilometers from the seagrass beds.

The rocks are suspended from the kelong, hence my only concern is that we're removing eggs or larvae that might attach to other objects further west. Which, as far as I know, don't exist since it's nothing but shipyards, industrial sites and powerplants.

And since there's nothing under the kelong but trash, beer bottles from the 60s and mud, there's no reef to damage.

Hope that clarifies things.

Anyway, so... what do you guys think is a reasonable price for uncured LRs? Especially considering most of us re-cure our rocks anyway

Shipyard, contamination?

[xnsdvd]

Strangely enough, No contamination from the shipyards in the form of heavy metals in our own tests. Iron content is slightly higher than expected though, probably because of all the welding and patch work that goes on at sembawang shipyard.

In fact if you wanted to verify, you can call AVA up, and as if oysters from the farm(Our neighbours) on the north coast of pulau ubin are safe for human consumption. They can be reached at 63257667.