Setting up a marine Tank for the first time

[pweesng]

ha ha.. ok ok..

let me think about it over the weekend... Chiller is always in the plan, just not now...

Sump, i am really thinking about it...

will update!

[raydiative]

The two most important things I would suggest you seriously consider in your tank plans are

incorporating a sump into the system and getting a chiller.

The sump would greatly simplify maintenance, and give you a wider selection of equipment and media you can use in the system, as well as increase the overall water volume to maintain stability.

Concerns about moisture or evaporation buildup can be taken care of with some strategic ventilation holes, or you can cover the sump with a piece a glass to seal it in.

A chiller will make it a lot easier to avoid problems and give you a wider variety of livestock to choose from. You should be able to get a decent 2nd hand chiller for around $200.00, and this

should not add more than $15 - $20 to your monthly electrical bill.

Evaporation from fan cooling will cost you almost as much per month in topups if you're using distilled water, and you will never be able to achieve temperatures as low or as stable as with a chiller.

It will also give you a lot less headaches in the long run, and keep livestock happier and healthier.

Compared to the amount of money you will be spending on your equipment and livestock, a chiller is a bargain trust me.

Most of the bros here will be able to attest to this, not uncommon for them to own a piece of coral or a fish that costs as much if not more than a 2nd hand chiller in their tank.

+2

too add on.. its always better to spend more now to get the more efficient equipments then to save up on some money to get the not so efficient one.. reason behind this is the fact that you will tend to upgrade after awhile due to the inefficiency of the equipments which will cost you more $$

[jackywongto]

- i think a bit too overwhelming for him lol

sump and chiller will be very good for you especially in the long run but that is not say that you cannot set up one without these.

I think as mentioned in your earlier post, you do have some constraints in the space etc and need to be sensitive to your wife's liking to the tank setup as well.

(I have been there lol)

Work within your constraints.

Is the space limitation fixed? If you only have that 50 cm space in your cabinet to play with and you would like to house your power plug in it, then I do not think you have much space for sump. Do note that the maxspect LED driver (if you intend to purchase this light) is quite huge and will take up about 1/4 of your cabinet space already. Not sure how you can manage to squeeze in a sump there. A neater setup would then be to house your cannister inside. Your skimmer will have to be HOB type. There is a smaller version MCE 300 but I am not sure how it hangs and if it is similar to MCE600 in terms of space wastage. Else the Tunze 9002 should work well for you.

Then maybe you can have an ATO and keep a top up resevoir tank in the cabinet too and not worry about the evaporation rate when you go oversea.

The key point is that without sump and chiller, you need to practise sensibility in stocking the type of LS and have discipline with stocking level. You will need to be more diligent with husbandry maintenance as well. Fan is a MUST imo without chiller. The LED light will then be overkill now. Switch to T5 perhaps. Sometimes I do not know whether to advise newbies to get better eqpt or start with basic ones after seeing so many people decomm within the 1st year. Even come across someone who spent approx $6k and then decomm within 5 weeks. really sad to see that.

So the other school of thought is that start with basic 1st. If your interest intensify, you can upgrade later. Yes you will some $$ but it could be better than spending a lot of $$ n all the nice eqpt and having to decomm it later if your wife is not that supportive or if you lose interest. Am I making sense here?

[pweesng]

Heh Heh... Thanks Jacky,

Actually the Wife quites enjoy having a tank at home, it's just the mess that she hates. We used to maintain FW tank at home for the last 5 years, until a month ago the last fish died and we decide to decomm the tank given that it was already warp. She used to have her own puffer tank as well. So one of the consideration is to buy the marine tank and stock it with a few puffer fish. But I haven't done any research on keeping marine puffer fish.

The constrains is not so much on money as well. Not that i am rich, but for example second chiller are everywhere, and if i really need to, I'll grab one. Not much of an issue. And I seriously is not htat kind of guy that needs all my things to be new.

The dilemmna I'm facing is this.

1) I definitely have a space constraint. I can't have a tank bigger than 90 cm by 40 cm by 45 cm. And given that size, plus I want a low cabinet, my sump tank can only be around 50 cm by 30 cm by 30 cm at most. In terms of water volume, i seriously doubt it would be much more than having a canister filter. Plus I need to cater for space in the cabinet for a chiller (eventually).

2) Given the size of this tank, is it worthwhile to have a small sump tank. The difference may be big for a big tank with a big sump. I hear what everyone says about more volume to help stablized the water parameters and more choices of equipment, and i truely agree. But what i really want to know is, will a small sump tank do that much difference to a small tank? If the difference is not going ot be so great, I seriously rather do without.

3) Hang on back Skimmers, How effective are these comparing to those that work in the sump? I'm prepared to spend some serious money on this to ensure that the without the sump tank, things will still be good. but if the difference between using a good HOB skimmer and small sump tank is really so big, I'll have no choice by to get a small sump tank built. But if it is pointless to have such a small sump, and HOB skimmer can do the job almost as well, then why not? if need be, I'll use 2 HOB Skimmer at a later stage.

4) I still think I would want the maxspect LED lights. visually it looks nice. So I would need space in the cabinet to cater for the control unit, like you say.

Lastly, anyone knows any friendly tank and cabinet maker that i can talk to?

cheers,

[jackywongto]

great pweesng. That you got most things thought through already. Kudos.

personally I would suggest HOB in your case.

- space, small sump, chiller in future.

looking forward to your new tank.

[pweesng]

heh heh...

once i get the quote from any tank maker, i'll be ready to put down the order.

Will probably get the MCE 600 and use it with my canister. If i decide on a chiller, i'll use the canister to drive it.

will update!

[comycus]

Just some thoughts for your new build

1. I highly recommend MCE600 for your ~3x1.5x1.5. Great mean machine that pulls out an amazing amount of gunk. As a HOB, you have the option of hanging it by the side or hiding it within your sump if you build one.

2. With a low cabinet of external dimensions of 90x40x50cm, your internal space will be very very small. Taking away the wooden frames, you will prob need to shave away 15-20cm. Will those dimensions even be enough to house your canister?

3. Sump or no sump, is up to you, like you said, an additional 5 gallons of water might not be worth tt trouble. However, that additional space might be good for you to build a small refugium to help you export nutrients, build a DSB etc. So here's another option for you to consider! HOB Skimmer + Canister + mini refugium. I would love to include a refugium in my current setup, but the headache of building one into my current setup is a major limitation. Therefore, it's good to explore this option when you're starting up.

4. The LED lights are a good choice. the 110W will be more than enough in your case. As you are looking to house the control unit within the cabinet and if the cabinet is going to be v. restricted in space, would be good if you also plan out the exact internal dimensions to ensure everything can be housed within.

5. If you are eventually going to get a chiller, include the chiller in your current planning. If you are using canister, get one that is powerful enough to return to chiller and back to tank. If you are using sump/refugium (as I suggested), plan a powerful enough return pump that can do the same.

[pweesng]

Hi Guys,

i went tank shopping with a friend today.

Anyway, ended up at ML, coz we were thinkin gof copying the ELOS tank dipalyed there...

Henry told me he could probably customised a 3 footer for me, be he asked for a couple of days to provide me a complete list. He also recommend that i consider putting a sump in. For FOWLR canister is alright. but its gonna be difficult to maintain given that it will have to be cleaned regularly. he will try to shop for a low profile skimmer.

Chiller is not necessary, but i would want to keep enough space in the cabinet for one.

I'll wait till wednesday when he get back to me before i decide.

[jackywongto]

Hi Guys,

i went tank shopping with a friend today.

Anyway, ended up at ML, coz we were thinkin gof copying the ELOS tank dipalyed there...

Henry told me he could probably customised a 3 footer for me, be he asked for a couple of days to provide me a complete list. He also recommend that i consider putting a sump in. For FOWLR canister is alright. but its gonna be difficult to maintain given that it will have to be cleaned regularly. he will try to shop for a low profile skimmer.

Chiller is not necessary, but i would want to keep enough space in the cabinet for one.

I'll wait till wednesday when he get back to me before i decide.

Always good to have more options to consider and Henry's words will be a great advice anytime.

[pweesng]

Hi Guys,

Just an update. I've placed my tank order with Henry@ML.

The price is not the cheapest in the world, but he gives me some comfort lah. Also, he doesn't give me the impression that everything is about money.

Any case, the tank will be a 3 by 1.5 by 2, sitting on a 4 by 1.5 by 2.5 cabinet. There will also be a sump tank. The skimmer is the Deltec MCE500, with aquabee 2000 as a return pump. I will also be using the 110w Maxspect LED light.

I'm still deciding on a chiller. Its going to start out as a FOWLR tank, so I've been advised that a chiller may not be necessary at this point of time. But I'm open to the idea still. If anyone has an Arctica 1/10 or 1/5 to sell, you are welcome to PM me... I'll be interested to have a look at it.

Tank is going to take 2 weeks to arrive. Hopefully I can post an update soon. I gather that with some liverocks from my friend's tank, I should be able to get it up and running within a month or so... Hopefully I can get my Grouper before CNY.

[jackywongto]

Hi Guys,

Just an update. I've placed my tank order with Henry@ML.

The price is not the cheapest in the world, but he gives me some comfort lah. Also, he doesn't give me the impression that everything is about money.

Any case, the tank will be a 3 by 1.5 by 2, sitting on a 4 by 1.5 by 2.5 cabinet. There will also be a sump tank. The skimmer is the Deltec MCE500, with aquabee 2000 as a return pump. I will also be using the 110w Maxspect LED light.

I'm still deciding on a chiller. Its going to start out as a FOWLR tank, so I've been advised that a chiller may not be necessary at this point of time. But I'm open to the idea still. If anyone has an Arctica 1/10 or 1/5 to sell, you are welcome to PM me... I'll be interested to have a look at it.

Tank is going to take 2 weeks to arrive. Hopefully I can post an update soon. I gather that with some liverocks from my friend's tank, I should be able to get it up and running within a month or so... Hopefully I can get my Grouper before CNY.

grats bro.

your final decision is way better than your initial plan.

looking forward to seeing your tank soon.

* quite a number of new tanks coming up. really exciting

[comycus]

Congrats on getting your new tank.

Might wanna start planning that stock list and see what to add in first. Adding your grouper in as the first fish really limits your choices. Just like I'm still waiting for my tank to be ready for one of my dream fish.

[craftsman]

Hi Guys,

Just an update. I've placed my tank order with Henry@ML.

The price is not the cheapest in the world, but he gives me some comfort lah. Also, he doesn't give me the impression that everything is about money.

Any case, the tank will be a 3 by 1.5 by 2, sitting on a 4 by 1.5 by 2.5 cabinet. There will also be a sump tank. The skimmer is the Deltec MCE500, with aquabee 2000 as a return pump. I will also be using the 110w Maxspect LED light.

I'm still deciding on a chiller. Its going to start out as a FOWLR tank, so I've been advised that a chiller may not be necessary at this point of time. But I'm open to the idea still. If anyone has an Arctica 1/10 or 1/5 to sell, you are welcome to PM me... I'll be interested to have a look at it.

Tank is going to take 2 weeks to arrive. Hopefully I can post an update soon. I gather that with some liverocks from my friend's tank, I should be able to get it up and running within a month or so... Hopefully I can get my Grouper before CNY.

Hi bro,

Good choice! You won't go wrong with Henry. . If I had the chance or choice to re do my tank all over again, I might very well have gone with Henry. . Not sure if it was you and your wife I bumped into at ML just before the 9th of December. I was going to Hong Kong the next day leow. In any case, welcome and looking forward to your tank build!

Paul

[pweesng]

Thanks to all,

I am looking forward to the arrival of the tank anxiously too. Ha ha... as with any men buying a new toy.

I note the concern about Grouper too... and to make it a bit worst, my wife doesn't quite like that fish as well...

I'll filled it up and cycle it for a month first and then go shop around, hopefully i can sellte on something that can be mutually agreed upon.

[comycus]

lol I think I understand how you feel about the other half not liking your fav fish.

But you will have to manage her expectations. In my experience, girls normally like fishes that are too aggressive to put into your tank (damsels), not reef safe (angels and butterflies), or too big for my small tank (like sohal tang).

It would be good to go down to LFS/search online on the various kinds of fishes that both your wife and you agree on and then plan when to add them. No point going to LFS and falling in love with purple tang and once you add it in as your first fish, realise you can't add other fishes coz it bullies them to death. Of course that also gives you a good excuse to add grouper since it will be one of the few fishes tt can stand up to PT

[richreef]

er.. my place oso got water stunned..too bad are minerial and not distilled..

top up is = distilled + saltmix then pour in hor?

ytd i bought 2 brands ..no frill and polar..havent tested the water yet though...

during cycling need change water mah after 1 week?coz the book i am readng ask me to change 50% after a week from when it 1st started..

Aaaaagh !!!!!!! top-up is distilled+saltmix then pour in huh?

[comycus]

Aaaaagh !!!!!!! top-up is distilled+saltmix then pour in huh?

when you are topping up evaporation, only top up with ro/di water.

when you are doing a water change or want to increase the overall water volume in your tank, you add saltmix water/nsw.

[gp2700]

bro ... I've a easy solution for you.

Lucky for you, groupers are typically easy to get along with other fishes so as long they have enough food. Let your wife choose the fish that she likes first. Then you add your fishes. Of course, best that your groupers are smaller in size than HER fishes. You might probably already know that groupers seldom attack live targets bigger than themselves. ( I had one of my bigger groupers chase a milkfish around today but no damages done.)

Feed your fishes with pellets instead of raw fish (they seem to grow slower when fed with pellets - no scientific proof, just my observation ) and you should have a happy tank with what you want and what your wife wants

p.s I've not seen my cleaner shrimp in a week, maybe my groupers ate it already

[pweesng]

Hi gp2700

Hee Hee, thanks for your advise. Appreciate it.

Yah, i have been reading all about Grouper. the problem is that grouper grower faster than the rest of the fishes it seems. I am trying to avoid a case where the grouper is the same size as the clown today, and one month later, the grouper double his size and swollow the clown lock stock and barrel... hahah

in any case, i will still explore that option... and see how it goes, need to run in the tank first... i'm gonna take 2 kg of my bio homes to my friend's tank to soak, until my tank arrive...