Tank cycling doubts

[sikiee]

hey guys, need some help.

its the fifth day of my "tank cycling" (w/o any mkt prawn). i bought 2.5kg of cured live rocks from Iwarna, and also used their NSW to fill my 6gallon tank.

i just tested my tank parameters:

pH: ~8.3

Amm: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 0-1ppm??

Total hardness: ~420ppm

Alkalinity: ~200ppm

i don't know if any cycling has started, why is the nitrates almost zero?? or is it no cycling has started because my rocks are alrdy cured?

i intend to add a few corals like mushroom in today, now a bit scared to.

[teebs]

Cycling hasn't started because there are little or no die offs from your live rocks. When cycling starts, your ammonia will spike and when it reduces to 0, your nitrites will spike and after your nitrites go to 0, then ur cycling is complete.

I would suggest throwing in a prawn to start your cycling process as it would be better for you in the long run.

[sikiee]

thanks, but why some dun encourage to throw in mkt prawn but just let the rocks cycle by itself?

[tiffanydunk]

there is no ammonia present so cycling did not starts or has already ended since u bought everything in a "ready" state.

[sikiee]

it is better to put in a small mkt prawn and start a cycle than to add in a few corals now right? how to explain the very small trace amt of nitrates present? (:

[comycus]

thanks, but why some dun encourage to throw in mkt prawn but just let the rocks cycle by itself?

coz it stinks

you can throw in fish food. or best is to throw in some bacteria.

you shouldn't be adding anything until the cycling process is done. That will prob take at least 4 weeks.

[teebs]

coz it stinks

you can throw in fish food. or best is to throw in some bacteria.

you shouldn't be adding anything until the cycling process is done. That will prob take at least 4 weeks.

If using NSW might only be 2-3 weeks.

[jackywongto]

Hi Sikiee

The trick is 1st to understand what is cycling.

cycling is simply a process whereby your tank to achieve an equilibrium maintaining the nitrogen cycle in your tank.

when you start a tank / add fishes, ammonia will increase through fishes' waste, uneaten food or dieoff of organism from rocks.

Ammonia is toxic, need to get them to zero. A bacteria colony will slowly be established in your tank to convert this ammonia to nitrite. NO2

Nitrite is toxic too. So another group of bacteria will slowly established in your tank to convert nitrite to nitrate (NO3).

Fishes are more tolerable towards nitrate. Once these 2 batches of bacteria are established in your tank and is in sufficient quantity to cope with your ammonia/ nitrite conversion, your tank is deemed cycled. This is the 4 weeks window that Comycus is saying.

So to start of cycling, you need to have fish waste, uneaten food or something rotting in your tank

Else there will be no ammonia to start off with and the cycle cannot take place.

Having said the above, even though your tank is cycled, everytime you add livestock, your tank will be readjusting again to try to achieve the above mentioned balance.

If you can grasp this fundamental, you can start adding livestock with more frequent water changes, dosing of bacteria and controlled feeding.

If you have no idea what I am talking about , just dump a few spoonful of fish food and let it rot in your tank.

Once you monitored that nitrite is zero, then you can start adding livestock.

I added 4 fishes in my 1 week old tank. They are ok till now. (2 weeks already)

I was using NSW, cured rocks, rocks from reefers, live sand and dosing bacteria.

[jackywongto]

Alkalinity: ~200ppm

wow Is this the equivalent of 12 dKH? nice!

[sikiee]

yup jacky its 200ppm = ~12dkh, is it good?

btw thanks for the prompt reply (: just curious, today i noticed a white long wormy like thingy that projects from one of my LR, and attaches to the bottom part of the LR (circled in red) i saw it moving with erm, 2 very very thin feelers. it seem like it can "stretch" very long. what's tt. lol.

and those circled in green are those white fossils things which some of them blooms the red dandelion thing. i heard from some fellow reefers they're erm tube worms? just keen to identify them.

[comycus]

yup jacky its 200ppm = ~12dkh, is it good?

btw thanks for the prompt reply (: just curious, today i noticed a white long wormy like thingy that projects from one of my LR, and attaches to the bottom part of the LR (circled in red) i saw it moving with erm, 2 very very thin feelers. it seem like it can "stretch" very long. what's tt. lol.

and those circled in green are those white fossils things which some of them blooms the red dandelion thing. i heard from some fellow reefers they're erm tube worms? just keen to identify them.

I follow the mantra: When in doubt, just kill

Those are tube worms alright. No harm.

[sikiee]

I follow the mantra: When in doubt, just kill

Those are tube worms alright. No harm.

thanks! cos i seem to have quite a lot on this particular piece of LR, if u noticed. (: i do notice a tiny snail wandering about sometimes. its also not harmful right?

[jackywongto]

yup jacky its 200ppm = ~12dkh, is it good?

btw thanks for the prompt reply (: just curious, today i noticed a white long wormy like thingy that projects from one of my LR, and attaches to the bottom part of the LR (circled in red) i saw it moving with erm, 2 very very thin feelers. it seem like it can "stretch" very long. what's tt. lol.

and those circled in green are those white fossils things which some of them blooms the red dandelion thing. i heard from some fellow reefers they're erm tube worms? just keen to identify them.

yeah dkh 12 is alright.

with higher dkh, Ph fluctuations will be lower.

You have good parameters. Think Iwarna NSW is quite good then.

[sikiee]

yeah dkh 12 is alright.

with higher dkh, Ph fluctuations will be lower.

You have good parameters. Think Iwarna NSW is quite good then.

but Iwarna is so far from my house. its like one end to the other of singapore. lol. i managed to go there cos borrowed car. (:

[jackywongto]

but Iwarna is so far from my house. its like one end to the other of singapore. lol. i managed to go there cos borrowed car. (:

haha you are a westie like me

[raydiative]

yup jacky its 200ppm = ~12dkh, is it good?

btw thanks for the prompt reply (: just curious, today i noticed a white long wormy like thingy that projects from one of my LR, and attaches to the bottom part of the LR (circled in red) i saw it moving with erm, 2 very very thin feelers. it seem like it can "stretch" very long. what's tt. lol.

and those circled in green are those white fossils things which some of them blooms the red dandelion thing. i heard from some fellow reefers they're erm tube worms? just keen to identify them.

baby coco worm!!

[comycus]

yeah dkh 12 is alright.

with higher dkh, Ph fluctuations will be lower.

You have good parameters. Think Iwarna NSW is quite good then.

actually all parameters are quite interlinked. I'm not v. good at chemistry, but i think its something like higher alkalinity allows greater calcium precipitation, allowing your corals to 'eat' calcium more and grow. Which is a good thing, but means your calcium levels drop quickly, and you have to replenish. Higher Alkalinity also binds pH, which accounts for the lower fluctuations.

Add in Mg, and... we need to call in some experts to explain le... lol

Actually if you're interested, can just read this article.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/...ature/index.php

[sikiee]

baby coco worm!!

u mean the one circled in red??

[jackywongto]

actually all parameters are quite interlinked. I'm not v. good at chemistry, but i think its something like higher alkalinity allows greater calcium precipitation, allowing your corals to 'eat' calcium more and grow. Which is a good thing, but means your calcium levels drop quickly, and you have to replenish. Higher Alkalinity also binds pH, which accounts for the lower fluctuations.

Add in Mg, and... we need to call in some experts to explain le... lol

Actually if you're interested, can just read this article.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/...ature/index.php

Not so sure about the calcium precipitation part and corals eating calcium theory but carbonate is on the opposite PH end of Calcium.

Increasing one will lower the other and vice versa.

without Mg, the calcium/ carbonate cannot dissolve in water... so if your MG is low, you buff and buff the other 2 with additives also no use.

Mg need to be ard 1250 at least to hold the calcium and carbonate levels.

... agar agar like that.....

[raydiative]

u mean the one circled in red??

yup yup!!

[comycus]

Not so sure about the calcium precipitation part and corals eating calcium theory but carbonate is on the opposite PH end of Calcium.

Increasing one will lower the other and vice versa.

without Mg, the calcium/ carbonate cannot dissolve in water... so if your MG is low, you buff and buff the other 2 with additives also no use.

Mg need to be ard 1250 at least to hold the calcium and carbonate levels.

... agar agar like that.....

cfm ba... tt's why Sherman needs so much Calcium... he keeps his dkh high, practically everyday have to dose calcium to maintain.

[iskay]

You mentioned NSW and cured rocks. What about the sand? Are they live sand? If no, then you tank most likely has not cycled. New technology and methods have shortened the cycle but nothing substitutes proper cycling.

Also once the tank is cycled, livestock needs to be introduced s-l-o-w-l-y... My rule of thumb is 1 livestock per 1-2weeks max. If you put too many livestock too soon, their wastes will contribute too much ammonia and will break the tank equilibrium thus kicking in a new cycling process. Because Ammonia is poisonous, this imbalance will also kill the very livestocks you introduced.

I find it best to setup a tank just before going on holidays. As you mind will be taken off wanting to put in livestock into the still-curing tank.

On a lighter note, you can put pee in the tank to start the cycle. Pee is ammonia-rich.

Here's some links to cycling if you care to read:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrog.../a/aa042403.htm

http://fishwhisperer.homestead.com/articles.html

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

[sikiee]

yup yup!!

really? it looks very erm, wriggly, it even have feelers leh. haha. but right now it seems attached to the rock, cant see the "feelers' alrdy.

[raydiative]

really? it looks very erm, wriggly, it even have feelers leh. haha. but right now it seems attached to the rock, cant see the "feelers' alrdy.

they are actually very nice when they grown big... will be posting a pic in my thread tonight! =P

[sikiee]

You mentioned NSW and cured rocks. What about the sand? Are they live sand? If no, then you tank most likely has not cycled. New technology and methods have shortened the cycle but nothing substitutes proper cycling.

Also once the tank is cycled, livestock needs to be introduced s-l-o-w-l-y... My rule of thumb is 1 livestock per 1-2weeks max. If you put too many livestock too soon, their wastes will contribute too much ammonia and will break the tank equilibrium thus kicking in a new cycling process. Because Ammonia is poisonous, this imbalance will also kill the very livestocks you introduced.

I find it best to setup a tank just before going on holidays. As you mind will be taken off wanting to put in livestock into the still-curing tank.

On a lighter note, you can put pee in the tank to start the cycle. Pee is ammonia-rich.

Here's some links to cycling if you care to read:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrog.../a/aa042403.htm

http://fishwhisperer.homestead.com/articles.html

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

lol, icic. thanks alot for the links. i wanted to put live sand, but it's sold in such a big tub and very ex. couldn't find ppl to share with me, my tank is so small. thus i'm using normal sand, grade 0. i'm now deciding between dosing bacteria or throwing in a small piece of shrimp. thks.