MaxSpect Aquarium LED Lighting

[poomoon]

I thought you meant comparing both of them over time? I meant the tests were taken at specific points in time, not averaged out over a period of time?

nvm... but I do agree with bro jc85. If they are not using royal blue and normal blue, there will be a marked difference. I love how royal blue brings out my coral's fluorescence

ohhh ... well, drew what he meant :

point A is like zero time, and point B is another time B. at time B, the blue line (MH) is low already, while LED (red) is still high. if you now take the total from point A to B, the gab between A and B is how much more you'd get from the LED across that period.

Compare.bmp

[poomoon]

I thought you meant comparing both of them over time? I meant the tests were taken at specific points in time, not averaged out over a period of time?

nvm... but I do agree with bro jc85. If they are not using royal blue and normal blue, there will be a marked difference. I love how royal blue brings out my coral's fluorescence

question : between these shades of blue, does it bring out the natural coloration, or enhance ?

[comycus]

question : between these shades of blue, does it bring out the natural coloration, or enhance ?

Check out bro binosage's tank to see insane fluorescence with only his royal blue lights turned on. Definitely not enhanced, prob not as outstanding as if you were to see with your own eyes. Think Sherman posted some shots of normal blue led in his thread before too for comparison.

Depends on what you define by natural coloration. They are all there, just can't see under normal sunlight/t5/mh.

[comycus]

ohhh ... well, drew what he meant :

point A is like zero time, and point B is another time B. at time B, the blue line (MH) is low already, while LED (red) is still high. if you now take the total from point A to B, the gab between A and B is how much more you'd get from the LED across that period.

hehe graphically always works better We are talking 2 different issues here.

Normally, you take a brand new (or almost brand new) mh, hook it up and measure PAR. then take a brand new led, and do the same thing. Based on this one time only reading, tests I have found online say that LED is comparable, if not better than MH.

Your point is another advantage LEDs hold over MH. That is the rate of change in performance of bulb. This is where LEDs beat MH flat with their rated life of 20,000hrs-50,000hrs w/o significant loss in performance. Hope tt clears up my confusion!

[jc85]

question : between these shades of blue, does it bring out the natural coloration, or enhance ?

If u "study" how chlorophyll photosynthesis, u will find that the wavelength of blue LED is not enough. Royal Blue wavelength is the closes match available in LED range.

Cheers

JC

[poomoon]

hehe graphically always works better We are talking 2 different issues here.

Normally, you take a brand new (or almost brand new) mh, hook it up and measure PAR. then take a brand new led, and do the same thing. Based on this one time only reading, tests I have found online say that LED is comparable, if not better than MH.

Your point is another advantage LEDs hold over MH. That is the rate of change in performance of bulb. This is where LEDs beat MH flat with their rated life of 20,000hrs-50,000hrs w/o significant loss in performance. Hope tt clears up my confusion!

hehe ok thanks. yup.

[comycus]

Think we went off topic for awhile.. heh

Anyway back to the original question. How does this lighting system hold up? Considering nobody has a unit yet (Jacky you getting?), welcome comments for 'at first glance'.

[sherman]

Check out this new set available at DELightings: http://delightings.com/index.cfm?GPID=30 (Jacky hope you don't mind a repeat post here, easier to view)

Hope it sets the bar for more affordable LEDs in future! But first, would like to invite the LED gurus to give us their opinions.

The 110W unit has the following specs:

LED Source : 18PCS x 3W White LED, 18PCS x 3W Blue LED(SemiLED Chips)

Brightness : 3W White LED - 160LM/PC, 3W Blue LED - 40LM/PC

Color Temperture & Wavelength : 3W White LED (10000K), 3W Blue LED(450nm)

Input Voltage : 220V

Power Consumption : 110W

Diamension : 400*180*45mm

Additional details:

- Does not contain any UV light on biological absolute security

- Specific 450nm wavelength blue light, the light needed to simulate the coral growth and promote coral growth.

- All-in-time switch setting, white & blue lamp can be separately controlled

- Temperature real-time detection showed, high temperature alarm, high temperature automatically turn off the lights (60-degree alarm, auto of above 70-degrees)

- All external power supply, lamp only through low-voltage DC, for aquarium biological and human security

- Fashion, simple, compact Design. To subvert the traditional lamp awkward appearance, large volume.

- Integrated aluminum radiator light body, with the dual-ball bearing fans, provide adequate cooling for LED.

How they get 110w?

18PCS x 3W White LED, 18PCS x 3W Blue LED

I believe they use (18 x 3 )+(18 x 3) =110 watt

In order to get 110 watt we need to run the led at 1 Amp.

So maybe it is good to check with the manufacturer if all the led is run at 1 Amp.

[jc85]

Some pix online show them using some huge LED. I wonder what is this LED.

http://www.fish-street.com/maxspect_progra...category_id=126

JC

[sherman]

Yes, would like to invite the LED gurus to discuss more about this new product. Looks exciting, and I'm sure everyone would like to know if this is a feasible product I'm very impressed by the design, cost of this product and their 18 month warranty.

My concern is their optics (apparantly they use 120 degree optics). My rudimentary knowledge is that it is sufficient for nano tanks (up to 12") but without at least 60 degree optics, I'm wondering if the light penetration is enough for my 24" tank? My tank is LPS/Softies coral. And for bros keeping SPS, what's the feasibility?

A quick search at nano-reefs for maxspect also shows what the LED folks over the other side think.

Most LED are make to have 90 to 140 Deg optics.

Is optics something you need to worry when you use leds as aquarium light?

Let see what the expert from nanoreef.com had to say.:

Optics

Optics are not one of the parts that you will need in every application. The whole point behind them, whether they be reflectors or lenses, it to focus the light into a smaller area. These start to become more important for tanks over 12-14" tall. The amount of light at 12" is considerably less than at the surface, and it gets exponentially worse the deeper you go. Optics can help bring the performance back up to usable levels for deeper tanks.

Need more info visit :

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...&start=1220

[sherman]

70% lumen maintenance is typically acceptable within 20,000 hours of use, for general lighting, 80% for more stringent requirements. Hi-LEDs are at around 3-5% lumens maintenance drop every ~5,000 hours of use. it would also depend on the ambient and lighted temperature conditions in the system, of course higher temperatures will degrade this performance further. -- just quote from my BF

Very interesting info. Like to know where this info is from.

Anyway this is from the manufacturer mouth about heat and led

Operating temperature is limited by junction Temperature(Tj) inside chip and operating power. So operating temperature shouldn’t be over maximum Tj.

Tj normally can be taken from the led spec sheet

Generally Junction temperature of Z-power LED(3w) has to be maintained under the permitted temperature(125 Celsius)mentioned on the datasheetof Z-power LEDLife time is bound up with Junction temperature. At high junction temperature,Life time is reduce and at low junction temperature Life time isincreasing.

[sherman]

Some interesting information combing through Chinese forums (http://www.cmfish.com/BBS/viewthread.php?tid=62069):

Proposed LED replacement period:

30w white LEDs - every 18 months (Available in their 160W & 180W models)

3w white LEDs - every 24 months

3w blue LEDs - every 30 months

LED Life:

When running white leds under conditions of 50 degrees in the aluminum heat sink, every thousandth hours result in a drop in performance of ~3%. Following a 10 hour daily lighting regime, annual performance (3650 hours) decline is estimated ay ~11%, and within three years, 33 %.

Manufacturer later claimed that this was the worst case scenario, given their current testing over a 5 month period did not result in any drop in efficiency levels. Manufacturer also claims that they will not commit to the norm of LEDs running for 5 years without loss in efficiency unless the aluminium heat sinks are run at 20 degrees, which is impossible.

more food for thought... Somebody please enlighten me!

btw my chinese translation is not tt fantastic, maybe I misinterpreted some stuff along the way...

Bro,

This is very interesting but just wonder why need to change every 24 months.

To know more about led's life please read attached manufacturer Reliability spec.

http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp4.asp

I only attached SSC spec for your reading .

You can visit other major led manufacturer 's site for their spec also.

[sherman]

Not able to find the spec sheet for "USA Semiled Chip". One thing for sure, a 3W LED giving 160lms is most probably overdrove. Not too sure if using Blue LED is the best mix. Most DIY done are using royal blue LED.

Cheers

JC

At 1 A a good grade 3 w led should give you 240 lm

Z-Power LED P4 series is designed with Seoul Semiconductor’s own phosphor and packaging technology. The P4 emits 240 lm at 1 A of light and features the industry’s highest luminous efficacy (100 lm/W @ 350 mA at the maximum) with only a single die.

Same with most major led manufacturer.

[sherman]

I wonder without Lens, what is the max degree possible for the LEDs. Most brands I know of are below 100degree viewable. If so, by using a lens of 120degree, isn't that reducing the intensity?

Hmm....

JC

Most high power led is from 90 to 140 degree

[sherman]

Think we went off topic for awhile.. heh

Anyway back to the original question. How does this lighting system hold up? Considering nobody has a unit yet (Jacky you getting?), welcome comments for 'at first glance'.

Let him have some time to run in and then see the result

[sherman]

Some pix online show them using some huge LED. I wonder what is this LED.

http://www.fish-street.com/maxspect_progra...category_id=126

JC

The 30 watt led is rated at 2000 lm.

That workout to be 66 lm/w

Very poor performance compare to their 3 watt white led running at 160 lm/w

So what does that mean?

Waste more energy to achieve the intensity and PAR you need.

So go for the 3 w white if you are getting

[jackywongto]

Very poor performance compare to their 3 watt white led running at 160 lm/w

Wrong lah.

i think their 3W LED is only at 160 lm per LED, not per W

[comycus]

How they get 110w?

18PCS x 3W White LED, 18PCS x 3W Blue LED

I believe they use (18 x 3 )+(18 x 3) =110 watt

In order to get 110 watt we need to run the led at 1 Amp.

So maybe it is good to check with the manufacturer if all the led is run at 1 Amp.

awaiting manufacturer reply... I guess such a new product needs more info before customers can commit.

[teebs]

awaiting manufacturer reply... I guess such a new product needs more info before customers can commit.

Ooohhh...U emailed them for a reply?

[comycus]

Ooohhh...U emailed them for a reply?

Lol no la, delightings liasing with them hope they reply soon though,Chinese manufacturers not known for their promptness

[teebs]

Lol no la, delightings liasing with them hope they reply soon though,Chinese manufacturers not known for their promptness

You're right...some take donkey years to reply...But since Delighting is their dealer/customer, then their response should be faster...

[peacemaker]

Oh my... information overload.

Awaiting good news for this product!

[jackywongto]

Guys I think you have to be realistic with the price of the product. Was in a class whole day today so brain already half dead.

The below is my thoughts and I am not speaking for Maxspect. Just sharing my thoughts.

Honestly I have no idea how this thing performs and who knows, 3 months down the road, i might be cursing and swearing at them and my Giesemann will be reinstated.

the top notch LEDs lights are prob AI and LA

The AI cost approx US 700 for 1 module. (12 inch), If you are to include shipping, then that would be be easily >SGD 1300 + taxes.

Likewise the LA cost >$1300 for a 2 feet module.

Of course then they come with additional features like dimming and programing.

Another viable option is to DIY your own with Sherman's help.

He is using 3W SSC LEDs that provides approx 250lm per LED - same LEDs that AI uses, I think. (not sure if this is true for the facelifted new AI model)

The Maxspect is a cheaper alternative to the above. With cheaper pricing, expectations should also be set lower.

Food for thoughts:

1) PAR : These LEDs are only approx 160 lm per LED at max. What is your current PAR readings from your tank using T5/ MH? Will the PAR reading increase with this new light or will it decrease? So are you seeking to replace your current lightset with something that will provide similar/slight improvement PAR readings, reduce the heat directed into the tank and save some electrical bills OR are you trying to get an LED lightset to substantially increase the amount of light for your tank with the additional benefits of reduce heat and electrical savings. I have done a simple test with the PAR value and the reading is comparable with my 150W MH. Of course 6 months down the road, the a similar comparison should yield a different resultas the MH bulb ages.

2) Spectrum - whether they call it Royal blue or blue or whatever, as long as the wavelength is at 450 - 460, it should be ok right?

3) the 30W LED - inefficient - yes. but at the same time it does provide that boosted 2000 lm per LED which is equivalent to 8 SSC LEDs? So sacrificing efficiency to achieve higher PAR - issit a masterstroke or a silly move? quite subjective.

4) This one I agree. Are they overdriving the LEDs to achieve higher PAR? If it is true, then it does not make sense as replacement of the 36 LEDs on a 110W module will be maddness after 1.5 - 2 years.

5) cost of the light. These are at almost 60% cheaper than the AI / LA. You cannot get a BMW with a toyota car budget.

I am nooby lah so feel free to comment if I am wrong on any of my views. Afterall, this is what the forum is for - exchange of ideas and sharing cheers!

[dachkie]

if a lumenaqua using 1w leds can support my lps ,zoas tank, i dont see why a 3w led cant do it.

there are too little competition to compete in the led market yet.

[jackywongto]

if a lumenaqua using 1w leds can support my lps ,zoas tank, i dont see why a 3w led cant do it.

there are too little competition to compete in the led market yet.

lumenaqua is only 1 W??