My 1.5 ft Reef log

[peacemaker]

wha... finally another eastie have spoken... hahaha

Heh... have always been residing in the east my whole life so far.

[peacemaker]

I know getting a bit desperate.

I suspect my PH is fluctuating because of this algae bloom

I switch off my light and the PH drop from 8.4 to 8.15 in a matter of a few hrs.

Had to reduce the lighting period for now.

Heh... hold your horses! It takes time for things to really settle down and mature, so the bacteria can handle the load. Have you ever considered setting up a hang-on fuge with cheato? Should be nice to have a natural nutrient export, and since keeping a mandarin is in your wish list, it should come in useful as a pods nest.

[poomoon]

I know getting a bit desperate.

I suspect my PH is fluctuating because of this algae bloom

I switch off my light and the PH drop from 8.4 to 8.15 in a matter of a few hrs.

Had to reduce the lighting period for now.

I really shud keep a close eye on your posts ... my set-up will almost be like yours

[jackywongto]

Heh... hold your horses! It takes time for things to really settle down and mature, so the bacteria can handle the load. Have you ever considered setting up a hang-on fuge with cheato? Should be nice to have a natural nutrient export, and since keeping a mandarin is in your wish list, it should come in useful as a pods nest.

Thought of that but decided against it.

Wanted to keep the tank simple. Moreover I have no more space to hang the refugium on my tank

Currently thinking of housing small chaeto in my main tank in a DIY box

[jackywongto]

I really shud keep a close eye on your posts ... my set-up will almost be like yours

I am looking forward to seeing and learning from yours.

[craftsman]

Jacky, have you been dosing bacteria?

[jackywongto]

Jacky, have you been dosing bacteria?

yes weekly.

Dosing the red bottle powder form.

[pokmingsheng]

I know getting a bit desperate.

I suspect my PH is fluctuating because of this algae bloom

I switch off my light and the PH drop from 8.4 to 8.15 in a matter of a few hrs.

Had to reduce the lighting period for now.

bro just curious..

how many hours do you normally leave your tank lights on for?

[jackywongto]

bro just curious..

how many hours do you normally leave your tank lights on for?

8 hrs. Now I have reduced it to 6 hrs only.

All the while, the algae is not too bad until the last 4 days.

Suddenly spouted from everywhere.

[yikai]

Really agree with bro peaemaker here 100%

algae is very common in tanks set up not exceeding more than 4-5 months. usually by the 6th month, algae will clear off by itself. do not keep tangs in a small tank. they are very destructive as they swim around esp when they get bigger -.- they poop alot too. seriousl alot. and they need alot of space. just too small for tangs.

please be patiejnt and wait for the algae to naturally clear off by itself. in the meantime, snails or manual removal is fine. there is not much u can do. this is all part and parcel of a new tank. not a fan of dosing chemical X Y Z to fix all problems. sometimes, natural is best. the only chemical i dose in my tank is AZ NO3. never dosed any other chemicals in my life, except additives. simple is best IMO...

sometimes, a tank that uses less XYZ and more p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e is nicer. simplicity can land u a better tank than those which costs thousands. just my 2 cents.

[peacemaker]

Thought of that but decided against it.

Wanted to keep the tank simple. Moreover I have no more space to hang the refugium on my tank

Currently thinking of housing small chaeto in my main tank in a DIY box

That's why I prefer IOS...

[jackywongto]

algae is very common in tanks set up not exceeding more than 4-5 months. usually by the 6th month, algae will clear off by itself. do not keep tangs in a small tank. they are very destructive as they swim around esp when they get bigger -.- they poop alot too. seriousl alot. and they need alot of space. just too small for tangs.

please be patiejnt and wait for the algae to naturally clear off by itself. in the meantime, snails or manual removal is fine. there is not much u can do. this is all part and parcel of a new tank. not a fan of dosing chemical X Y Z to fix all problems. sometimes, natural is best. the only chemical i dose in my tank is AZ NO3. never dosed any other chemicals in my life, except additives. simple is best IMO...

6 months!!!! wow.....

k k I will "dose" a dozen snails into the tank 1st.

I don't remember having such algae in my previous tank.

Maybe I had tangs then to cope with them then.

[yikai]

6 months!!!! wow.....

k k I will "dose" a dozen snails into the tank 1st.

more or less depends on what you do with your tank. every individual tank has its own set of time frames. my tank cleared its diatom problems on its own in about 4 months. have heard of it going more or less too.

since day 1 of my tank set up, never used any liquid pods, algae X, PO4 remover, parasite medication, red slime remover etc, with the exception of AZ NO3. tried to let everything run its own course. so far so good. my tank is healthy and im happy too. only thing is takes awhile to let things settle down by itself :/ but i guess its all part and parcel.

[craftsman]

Jacky,

Just want to share an article that I read a little while ago by Eric Borneman. He explains the difference between a mature tank vis a vis a cycled tank with "stable" parameters. I'm so guilty of not following this.. heh heh...

Original link is here...

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic23945-9-1.aspx

Hi Eric, I was hoping you could help me to understand better what it means for a system to "mature" or "become established". Hobbyists (me included) are always saying not to keep that sps or this anenome for a least a year until your system has matured. What exactly are the differences between a tank which finished cycling a month ago and one that finished cycling 11 months ago? Does it have to do with water parameters being more stable? Does it have to do with natural food availability? Does "tank maturity" pertain more to those who utilize a DSB, because it takes 6 months for a DSB to become functional ?<<

Tank maturity seems to be even more of an issue without the sand bed. The sand bed just takes some time to get enough nutrients in it to sustain populations and stratify into somewhat stable communities and become functional. So, here's the tank reason, and then I'll blow into some ecology for you. When you get a tank, you start with no populations of anything. You get live rock to form the basis of the biodiversity - and remember that virtually everything is moderated by bacteria and photosynthesis in our tanks. So liverock is the substrate for all these processes, and also has a lot of life on it. How much depends on a lot of things.

Mostly, marine animals and plants don’t like to be out of water for a day at a time...much less the many days to sometimes a week that often happens. So, assuming you are not using existing rock from a tank, or the well-treated aquacultured stuff, you have live rock that is either relatively free of anything alive to begin with, or you have live rock with a few stragglers and a whole lot of stuff dying or about to die because it won’t survive in the tank. Some, if not most, rock exporters have a “curing process†that gets rid of a lot of the life to begin with and some of this is to keep it from dying and fouling further, but some of it would have lived if treated more carefully.

From the moment you start, you are in the negative. Corallines will be dying, sponges, dead worms and crustaceans and echinoids and bivalves, many of which are in the rock and you won't ever see. Not to mention the algae, cyanobacteria, and bacteria, most of which is dehydrated, dead or dying, and will decompose. This is where the existing bacteria get kick started. Bacteria grow really fast, and so they are able to grow to levels that are capable of uptaking nitrogen within...well, the cycling time of a few weeks to a month or so. The “starter bacteria†products give me a chuckle. Anyone with a passing knowledge of microbiology would realize that for a product to contain live bacteria in a medium that sustains it would quickly turn into a nearly solid mass of bacteria, and if the medium is such that it keeps them inactive, then the amount of bacteria in a bottle is like adding a grain of salt to the ocean compared to what is going to happen quickly in a tank with live rock in it.

However, if you realize the doubling time of these bugs, you would know that in a month, you should have a tank packed full of bacteria and no room for water. That means something is killing or eating bacteria. Also realize that if you have a tank with constant decomposition happening at a rate high enough to spike ammonia off the scale, you have a lot of bacteria food...way more than you will when things stop dying off and decomposing. So, bacterial growth may have caught up with the level of nitrogen being produced, but things are still dying...you just test zero for ammonia because there are enough bacteria present to keep up with the nitrogen being released by the dying stuff. It does not necessarily mean things are finished decomposing or that ammonia is not being produced.

Now, if things are decomposing, they are releasing more than ammonia. Guess what dead sponges release? All their toxic metabolites. Guess what else? All their natural antibiotic compounds which prevents some microbes from doing very well. Same with the algae, the inverts, the cyano, the dinoflagellates, etc. They all produce things that can be toxic – and sometimes toxic to things we want, and sometimes to things we don’t want. So, let's just figure this death and decomposition is going take a while.

OK, so now we have a tank packed with some kinds of bacteria, probably not much of others. Eventually the death stops. Now, what happens to all that biomass of bacteria without a food source? They die. Some continue on at an equilibrium level with the amount of nutrients available. And, denitrification is a slow process. Guess what else? Bacteria also have antibiotics, toxins, etc. all released when they die. But, the die-off is slow, relative to the loss of nutrients, and there is already a huge population, and yet you never test ammonia. "The water tests fine.†But, all these swings are happening. Swings of death, followed by growth until limited, then death again, then nutrients available for growth, and then limitation and death. But, every time, they get less and less, but they keep happening – even in mature tanks. Eventually, they slow and stabilize.

What's left? A tank with limited denitrification (because its slow and aerobic things happen fast) and a whole lot of other stuff in the water. Who comes to the rescue and thrives during these cycles? The next fastest growing groups...cyanobacteria, single celled algae, protists, ciliates, etc. Then they do their little cycle thing. And then the turf algae take advantage of the nutrients (the hair algae stage). Turfs get mowed down by all the little amphipods that are suddenly springing up because they have a food source. Maybe you've bought some snails by now, too, or a fish. And the fish dies, of course, because it may not have ammonia to contend with, but is has water filled with things we can't and don't test for...plus, beginning aquarists usually skimp on lights and pumps initially, and haven't figured out that alkalinity test, so pH and O2 are probably swinging wildly at this point.

So, the algae successions kick in, and eventually you have a good algal biomass that handles nitrogen, produces oxygen through photosynthesis, takes up the metabolic CO2 of all the other heterotrophs you can’t see, the bacteria have long settled in and also deal with nutrients, and the aquarium keeper has probably stopped adding fish for a spell because they keep dying. Maybe they started to visit boards and read books and get the knack of the tank a bit. They have probably also added a bunch of fix-it-quick chemicals that didn’t help any, either. Also, they are probably scared to add corals that would actually help with the photosynthesis and nutrient uptake, or they have packed in corals that aren't tolerant of those conditions.

About a year into it, the sand bed is productive and has stratified, water quality is stable, and the aquarist has bought a few more powerheads, understands water quality a bit, corallines and algae, if not corals and other things are photosynthesizing well, and the tank is "mature." That's when fish stop dying when you buy them (at least the cyanide free ones) and corals start to live and grow and I stop getting posts about "I just bought a coral and its dying and my tank is two months old" and they start actually answering some questions here and there instead of just asking questions (though we should all always be asking questions, if not only to ourselves!).

So, ecologically, this is successional population dynamics. Its normal, and it happens when there is a hurricane or a fire, or whatever. In nature though, you have pioneer species that are eventually replaced by climax communities. We usually try and stock immediately with climax species. And find it doesn't always work.

Now, the "too mature" system is the old tank syndrome. Happens in nature, too. That whole forest fire reinvigorating the system is true. Equally true on coral reefs where the intermediate disturbance hypothesis is the running thought on why coral reefs maintain very high diversity...they are stable, but not too stable, and require storms, but not catastrophic ones....predation, but not a giant blanket of crown of thorns, mass bleaching, or loss of key herbivores.

This goes to show what good approximations these tanks are of mini-ecosystems. Things happen much faster in tanks, but what do you expect given the bioload per unit area. So, our climax community happens in a couple years rather than a couple of centuries. Thing is, I am fully convinced that intermediate tank disturbance would prevent old tank syndrome.

My advice on starting tanks is to plan the habitat you want. Find the animals and corals you like. Learn about the tiny area of the reef you will try and recreate, and do not try to make a whole coral reef in one tank. Then, purchase the equipment required to emulate that environment. Then, add the appropriate types of substrate (sand, rubble, rock, whatever) and wait long after “your tank water tests fine†before you add fish and corals. First, add herbivores and maintain water quality. Water changes, carbon, skimming, alkalinity, calcium. Keep the water of high quality, even for things you can’t test for. Wait a few months and enjoy the growth that will happen. Then, add some of the species that you plan to keep….invertebrates and corals. They help create the environment, and also photosynthesize, add biodiversity, stabilize nutrients, etc. Then….then….add fish. The fish will have a reef as their new home. They won’t be stressed by this variable bouilllabaise of water and a strange habitat that keeps changing as things are added or die. They will have a stable tank with real habitat, and then the original concept you imagined will have happened.

_____________________

Eric Borneman

[jackywongto]

Thanks crafts, for sharing.

[jackywongto]

more or less depends on what you do with your tank. every individual tank has its own set of time frames. my tank cleared its diatom problems on its own in about 4 months. have heard of it going more or less too.

since day 1 of my tank set up, never used any liquid pods, algae X, PO4 remover, parasite medication, red slime remover etc, with the exception of AZ NO3. tried to let everything run its own course. so far so good. my tank is healthy and im happy too. only thing is takes awhile to let things settle down by itself :/ but i guess its all part and parcel.

let me monitor mine and see how long it takes to clear.

[MarcoVan]

Heh... hold your horses! It takes time for things to really settle down and mature, so the bacteria can handle the load.

+1

Bro, right now is to buy salt and change water. pH swings are inevitable in nanos, the idea is therefore how to maintain and contain a range which your corals are comfortable in. I do not think a 10% water change will cause parameters to go hairwire because in US (if you visit www.nano-reef.com) you will see a number of US reefers doing like 20-25% water changes once every 2 weeks. There's a guy in RC TOTM by the name of Louis Tsai (louist) who has/had an inspiring 10 gallon nano which he won TOTM with. You can do a search for his nick, louist in nano-reef.com, *the other local marine forum* and also in RC. You will see that his tank is no different from yours and if he can win TOTM with what he is doing, I am sure you can do it as well! May not be TOTM but definitely something spectacular!

Just don't give up! (:

Also, about your kH, I suggest you frag your monti up and keep only a small frag size for yourself because big sps like such sucks alot of calcium which in return will affect your kH. Without a stable ionic balance, your spses will not encrust and lest grow. They may wither and die. Honestly, I am guilty of such a doing because I too once was naive thinking that my 1ft cube nano can upkeep the amount of calcium intake with periodic water change but the speed at these spses even their frags, sucking up calcium is too fast for me and my 1ft nano to keep up. So better be safe than sorry, frag it bro and sell/trade for other nice corals (: SPSes are nice growers if current and stable water parameters are present and don't have to worry about not getting something as nice as this back. The market is always here for you and so are the senior reefers. There's always a chance to get corals which you have lost due to constraints back again (:

Meantime, just keep things simple and easy! And do read up alot on SRC, RC, and for yourself, nano-reef.com. I learnt alot from these three places for my 6 years in this hobby. So do give some time into the reading up. If you need references, let me know. I can draw up some links to show you where the knowledge lies.

Lastly, I want to say that if I have ever said/typed/hinted/mentioned anything that may cause someone to feel hurt, I sincerely apologise. There was no malicious intention and all I want is to help my bro here. Period.

Happy Reefing,

Marc J.

[jackywongto]

Also, about your kH, I suggest you frag your monti up and keep only a small frag size for yourself because big sps like such sucks alot of calcium which in return will affect your kH.

Happy Reefing,

Marc J.

Ya hor... nvr thought of that. will frag it asap.

thanks Marc.

Hey let me know if you manage to get time off to join us on 13 Dec.

[MarcoVan]

Ya hor... nvr thought of that. will frag it asap.

thanks Marc.

Hey let me know if you manage to get time off to join us on 13 Dec.

No problem! Keep us posted on your tank!

Seriously your tank is a lucky tank to have so many "doctors" waiting on it! teehee.

Hope it gets well soon! (:

Yeahh, I will see how and let you know. May have Christmas shopping to do :X

Happy Reefing,

Marc J.

[jackywongto]

No problem! Keep us posted on your tank!

Seriously your tank is a lucky tank to have so many "doctors" waiting on it! teehee.

Hope it gets well soon! (:

Yah glad to hear from so many bros here.

Learning alot

thank you guys and keep those inputs coming.

[teebs]

Yah glad to hear from so many bros here.

Learning alot

thank you guys and keep those inputs coming.

So now u have so much input...let's see your output...

[jackywongto]

So now u have so much input...let's see your output...

you want to see my output !!!!!!!

[comycus]

you want to see my output !!!!!!!

lol show him your skimmate lor

[jackywongto]

lol show him your skimmate lor

\okie okie. later when I start foaming at the other end, I let him know.... hahaha

[poomoon]

So now u have so much input...let's see your output...

wow ... also thanks in advance, learning a lot. next patient coming up in 3-4 weeks