Need Help (Very very new to this)

[sikiee]

hello guys, i'm really very new to this. Would appreciate if anyone can tell me (in the most simplified/lay-man terms) the fundamental things that i need to know before i set up a tank (interested to get clowns with some corals). Like e.g. what type of filters, how to cycle the tank, ALL the things that i NEED to buy etc for a ~24"L X 12"W X 15"H tank (that's the tank size i wanna get), what type of corals will be better, lighting..blah blah blah. thanks alot alot! (:

[fishiee]

Ok. I am a budget reefer that owns a tank your size. There are many fundemental things in a reef tank. However, what i will do will be to give you a recommended tank build. I am sure you can do research on the internet yourself . There are basic guides on the interent as well as a marine wiki, althrough it is not very developed. These should put you on the right course. Any specific questions can be asked on the sgreef forums.

Tank build:

Tank itself: get a glass one for around 40 - 50 bucks. you can order from freshnmarine.com.sg they have a tank your size. don't go for the really cheap acrylic ones

Lighting: T5 tubes, 4 of them, i.e. 24Wx4, 2 white 2 blue. There is a big difference in price when comapring chinese and western brands, so if you are on budget, no point splurging on a western one

Filter: a simple hang on back is fine. activated carbon is highly recommended.

Protein skimmer. This is when you can splurge a little. You can try an aqua c remora if your budget can afford it. Or else, go for reef octopus, either hang on back or a DNW110. Reefers, any more recommendations on GOOD skimmers (no weirpro please)

DI unit - crystal pro single canister if you are on budget. this is to remove the many unwanted ions presnt in singapore's tap water

Wavemaker - get a good one, (like a hydro koralla 1 for you) most cheap wavemakers usually spoil after a few months anyway

Additives - choose any brand and stick with it. Most important additives are calcium and pH buffer. next will be trace elements and iodine. if you are keeping lots of hard corals and clams, then magnesium and strotnium and calcium carbonate is a must

Substrate - sand comes in different grades, ranging from corse to fine. the finest sand is assigned the number 0. It is the most beautiful, but has the potential to cause a sandstorm if your flow rate if too high.

Live rock and rock bonder. you know what i am talking about

Corals - my lighting setup i gave you is able to cover all soft corals (i recommend you get mushrooms, zoas and leather corals), should be able to cover all LPS (the open brain is quite hardy) and clams (i have a crocea clam. more than 6 months under my lighting scheme). SPS (add sps last when your tank is fully settled) will have to be placed high in your tank. I recommend you buy one of each coral you want on your first trip. Some reefers are just cursed and cannot keep a certian type of coral, so don't stock your tank with 5 rocks of zoas and have them all die on you. Do extensive research on any coral and fish you buy before purchase. know their pros and cons well.

Timer - you don't want to switch the lights on and off every day, right?

Fish - check with fish shop for compatibility with other fishes, whether it is reef safe and whether your tank is big enough. e.g. you cannot house a happy tang with a tank that small. clowns are sometimes fierce. i have 2 common clowns and 1 tomato clown in my tank right now. that's the limit for me for clownfish.

Cooling - a chiller or a fan. your budget, your choice. i am currently running on 2 DIY computer fans. effective, energy saving and cheap.

Misc. invertebrates - cleaner shrimp

Macroalgae - very useful. recommend cheato. helps to export nitrates permernently. will do the work of a deep sand bed or 20 kg of live rock nicely. i want to get some for my tank but have not had to opportunity. you need to add iron as a supplement to your tank if you want to keep cheato healthy. iron usually comes in the bottle of trace elements additive, so read the lable before you buy a specific iron additive.

Misc. items: net, beta box to punish misbehaving fish, algae scraper or toothbrush, whichever you choose, hose. don't forget fish food and food for your corals.

Good luck.

I hope i did not miss anything out. please add it in if i do, fellow reefers? thanks.

[comycus]

I'm still pretty new to the hobby, and I am still going through the learning phase. My only advice is to read up as much as your brain can absorb. You will have tons of questions that you can find answers to here or anywhere online. Take all with a pinch of salt as, very often, ppl have different ways of approaching their tanks.

Bro fishiee has covered quite extensively on the equipment. The idea behind having any equipment is to provide as close to a reef habitat as possible. There are many good deals on good equipment in the pasar malam section here if you are on budget.

You will want to read up minimally on cycling new tanks, acclimatizing new LS, maintaining water quality etc. You can find many posts on these here, or in other forums, internet sites. I found this site a v. good read to kick start my education

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/subject/index.php

[sikiee]

i think i still need plenty of reading up! thanks fishiee for the organized info and comycus for the link! (:

[iskay]

In reefing, Patience is key.

more reading for you. http://www.fishlore.com/reeftanksetup.htm

[pokmingsheng]

the fun part about this hobby is doing the research by yourself and reading the posts here by many experienced reefers here...

i've learnt alot from this forum...

and the many advice i got from senior reefers when i meet them in person

[zephyros]

bro fishiee had provided one way to start things.

Another way will be

1) decide the tank size

2) decide the live stock you want to keep, eg wat coral (SPS,LPS,softie), fish etc

3) decide the equipement that you need to keep your LS happy

happy reefing

[sikiee]

thanks a million for the encouragement.

i've done more reading up..and here's some questions that's really bothering me:

For a ~24"L x 12"W x 15"H tank with a few clowns and probably a few soft corals or maybe LPS:

1) protein skimmer is a MUST right? what's the difference between a surface skimmer and a protein skimmer? (if there IS a difference, do i need BOTH?)

2) are powerheads = wavemakers? (if it is, i'm planning to get a powerhead rated at about 160GPH - is it ok?)

3) what EXACTLY is a sump? (i don't really need it for my tank size right?)

4) i read in some places about getting a Reverse Osmosis filter. any difference with getting a simple hang on filter? what exactly is activated carbon?

5) is DI unit = De-ionizing unit? what is it actually - another type of filter?

6) so eventually do i need to get a surface skimmer, protein skimmer, a DI unit and a HOB filter altogether?

7) if i'm putting live rocks into my tank together with a ~3" deep sand bed (probably #0/1 sand) PLUS a protein skimmer, do i still need the so called DI unit?

sorry for the bombarding questions

thanks thanks ((:

[Solo77]

for protein skimmer, it is not a must but most will encourage you to have as yr tank is small. Whether surface or not, the skimmer helps to skim your water. The surface skimmer is just a design which helps to clear yr water surface by sucking water from water surface to the skimmer. For normal skimmer, the suction will be below the water surface, hence water surface may be stagnant and not very good yr tank. 160GPH seems too powerful. Maybe you want to look at those less than 4000Lph type. A sump can be within the tank itset or separate from the main tank where water from the tank flow through and return back to the main tank. It can act as filtration, refugium, etc. The RO filter seems more applicable for water top-up. DI and RO are 2 methods for water top used for marine tank. The water top up is like drinking water. Can also use tap water but due to impurities, will cause algae issue. So the purpose is to reduce algae problem. Not a must but good to have.

[comycus]

1) Some say protein skimmer is like the heart of the tank. I would get it if I'm setting up a tank. w/o confusing you, there is another option: employing an algae scrubber. If interested, you can find out more about it here: http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73162

Surface skimmer skims water away from the surface, getting rid of stuff floating in the tank like oil. If your tank has an overflow, usually will have teeth at the top of the overflow tt creates the same effect.

2) Powerhead takes in water from 1 side n pumps it back out the other side. Wavemakers 'blows' water like fan. Not necessary to get wavemaker as powerhead can act as one, but wavemakers have lot of gadgets nowadays to create tidal waves, random flow etc. that's good for the tank, recommended to get 1 or 2 to create the random water movements in your tank.

3) Read http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html I think for smaller tank size, the sump is prob more important to increase water volume.

4) Other than a protein skimmer, you need to know the 3 types of filtration: Biological, Mechanical and Chemical. Can read up more online. You can choose to do filtration either as a HOB filter, External canister or sump.

5) read http://www.melevsreef.com/why_rodi.html

6) To me protein skimmer is impt. You will definitely need some sort of filtration. RO/DI unit is not a must, but helps improve your water quality.

7) This snr reefer told me before DSB needs minimally 4-6 inches. With your height of 15", don't recommend going DSB unless its in sump (Refugium). choose either BB or SSB.

Like I said, I'm still learning, so if I made any mistakes, hope someone will correct me too.

[comycus]

btw why 12" width? is it space constraint? Only asking coz it is probably too narrow to put live rocks, corals and leave space for fish to swim in. To put things into perspective, a small-medium live rock can typically range from 6-12 inches. I find 15" to be the bare minimum for reef tanks.

[Guest]

It is better to have 24" ( 2ft) or 30" ( 2.5 ft) height since you can stack your corals higher and greater water volume..

[fishiee]

1) most reefers use a protein skimmer. unless you want to try another method of running a reef tank, a protein skimmer makes your life much easier my removing a large portion of the waste your livestock generates. a surface skimmer is basically an attatchment to the inlet of a protein skimmer or a filter. It helps 'skim' or suck the topmost layer of water, where oils and other unwanted compounds may accumulate, directing these compounds to your filter. A surface skimmer is good, but not as essential as a protein skimmer. some skimmers and filters come with a surface skimmer attatched.

2) powerheads and wavemakers basically 'push' water the difference is that the flow from a powerhead is 'concentrated' and directional whiles the flow from a wavemaker is 'spread out' (it is harder to position a directional flow as corals in its path will most likely not like it). powerheads are used mostly for pumping water to another location outside the tank, e.g. into the sump, although they can also be used to create flow in a tank. remember that too much flow in a tank may not be good, especially when you are planning to keep corals such as mushroms and certian LPS. these corals like low flow. i use a 1500l/h wavemaker for my tank (which is the same size as yours) and i say its just about right)

3) A sump is basically an extra tank away from your main display tank. water is circulated from the main tank into the sump and pumped back again. a sump can be used to store unsightly equipment you do not want in your main tank, e.g. protein skimming and filtration can be done in the sump. a sump also serves to add to the 'volume' of your tank. the larger the volume of your tank, the better as any mistakes will be 'diluted' by the large ammount of water, if you get my little joke.

4) and 5) tap water is used to top up your tank water on a regular basis (as water evaporates from your tank and you tank gets 'saltier'). however, singapore tap water contains many unwanted ions such as nitrate, phosphate along with a whole host of other unwanted compounds they add to keep the water clean, e.g. chlorine. As these compounds may affect your tank if tap water is directly added, many reefers pass their tap water through a deionising unit or a reverse osmosis filter or both to get rid of these ions BEFORE adding the water to their tanks. There is a lot of difference between this and a simple hang on back filter and water in your tank must not be passed through these units. Activated carbon is bascially carbon that has been treated with chemicals and heated to a very high temperature. this treatment creates a lot of microscopic holes on the surface of the carbon, with trap unwanted chemicals in the water such as phenols and other water-soluble organics (e.g. hormones), some of which cannot be removed effectively by protein skimming. activated carbon has the added benifit of absorbing the 'smell' in your tank caused by these compounds (some tanks without activated carbon can get unpleasently smelly)

6) I think you can deduce this yourself with all the writing i did. they all serve different functions, all which a benificial to a reef tank. most reefers employ all 3, but some get away with one or two less by doing other things to substituite.

7) Oh well, you can see if you can get away without using a DI unit. but if problems arisie in your tank that are linked to not having a DI unit (excessive (with emphasis on the word excessive) algae growth was what prompted me to buy a DI unit), you may want to consider buying one.

And in response to mod harlequin mania's suguesstion of a high tank, do consider it. a high tank is definitely much more beautiful (the height itself makes the reef tank look more impressive, along with the increased number of corals) and also has many added benifits. However, do consider the disadvantages, two of which include 1) startup and maintanence. most people do not have hands (tip of fingers to armpit) that are much longer than 2 feet and unless you are planning to stick your head into the water, reaching down to the bottom to right a toppled clam or do maintainace would involve the use of a pair of tongs, patience and time. 2) light from T5 tubes MAY not be able to penetrate 2.5 feet to effectively enough sustain clams and other more photon-demanding livestock housed on the sandbed. metal halide lighting (together with a chiller) now becomes a viable option.

Happy reefing (or researching)!

[zephyros]

For a ~24"L x 12"W x 15"H tank with a few clowns and probably a few soft corals or maybe LPS:

For this tank size, 1 pair of same clown is all you can take.

1) protein skimmer is a MUST right? what's the difference between a surface skimmer and a protein skimmer? (if there IS a difference, do i need BOTH?)

surface skimmer is NOT a skimmer, you can customise a either internal overflow or

external overflow box and this will give you the surface skimming. Design your overflow such that it takes

water from the bottom of the tank as well (via pressure). Then put the protein skimmer intake pump in

the overflow. This is one way to setup.

3) what EXACTLY is a sump? (i don't really need it for my tank size right?)

- increase water volume and thus stability of the system as a whole.

- place to put your equipement, eg skimmer, FR etc

4) i read in some places about getting a Reverse Osmosis filter. any difference with getting a simple hang on filter? what exactly is activated carbon?

- RO is to remove metals from the tap water for before performing water change. If you are

using sea water or distilled water, then you do not need a RO or DI unit. But if you need to

go for one, go for a DI rather than a RO. DI does abt the same thing as RO (not going into details).

They are both use to remove the metals in your tap water before doing water change.

Even with a RO/DI unit, you may still need a FR to remove phosphrous

cheers

[sikiee]

thanks all for answering in detailed. (: let me digest all these and then i'm gonna draft out all the stuffs i need to get!

[ddddyyyy]

I agree with sikiee

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