Nitrate Control

[flipper]

Hi,

I don't seem to be able to get NO3 down from 100mg/l. I lost nearly all fish in my 4x2x2, with a fire clown, niger trigger and juvenile blue tang left. I even got 2 clams recently to help. Changed water twice already this week, 15% each time. Cut down on feeding to just one cube of brine shrimps in case it is an overfeeding problem.

Bought Special Blend bacteria in a bottle to up the nitrobacters/nitrosomanas, but nothing. The other parameters are well within the safe zones.

Help please??

[Mellow]

hi flipper,

what brand of test kit are u using by the way? I also had the same problem as u where my tank showed nitrate at 100mg/l. but the only thing is that everything in my tank is doing well so I kindda suspected that the test kit is not accurate. Try changing more water and see if the readings will go down. or U can set up a refugium or employ more efficient skimmers etc to lower the nitrates. As what blenny said, it will be good if u can show us your setup? Easier to spot what's wrong. Oh, remove whatever bio balls u have in your tank... might be a cause too

[fangtooth]

pardon me bros, can any livestock survive at 100mg of nitrates?

so far mine measured at around 30mg, the fishes 'siow liow'.

[Dispar_Anthias]

Hi,

I don't seem to be able to get NO3 down from 100mg/l. I lost nearly all fish in my 4x2x2, with a fire clown, niger trigger and juvenile blue tang left. I even got 2 clams recently to help. Changed water twice already this week, 15% each time. Cut down on feeding to just one cube of brine shrimps in case it is an overfeeding problem.

Bought Special Blend bacteria in a bottle to up the nitrobacters/nitrosomanas, but nothing. The other parameters are well within the safe zones.

Help please??

Hey with that kind of nitrate level no thing should be added inot the tank.... IMO mopst things will not survive much less say the clams. Hey remove the clam now or pass to some ppl who are able to care for them. Purpose of having clam is definately not to reduce nitrate and pls dun waste these beauties.

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm.. either your test kit's defective or your filtration system isn't up to the mark. Or your massively overfeeding/overstocking.

How about you give us an idea about your husbandry/maintenance schedule and your tank parameters/setup first before we can help you troubleshoot?

[flipper]

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies. Could be that my test kits are faulty.

All my corals seem to be doing well, including the clams. The remaining fishes seem very active.

Husbandry details:

Test kits - Tetra

MH 150W X 2 [10K] , 1 x T5 60W, 1 X Coralife 20K 40W.

Water changes done once every two weeks, about 10%.

I suspect that I lost some fish, and could not locate them, 1 dotty back and 1 blue damsel and a cleaner wrasse. The decomposition may have contaminated the tank.

Feel very bad now that I have bought the beautiful clams. How do I know if they are not doin well? Any volunteers for hosting the clams for a short while? I'm not selling/giving them!

I did try the test kits on the water that came with the clams and it read between 25 and 50 mg/l.

Do you think that Seachem's De-Nitrate works?

Appreciate all the advice.

[flipper]

And Oh yes,

This is how my tank looks like an hour ago.

[[d]3v|L]

Looks like that anemone is bleached

is that a knob starfish aka choc chip? if it is its not reef safe

[Dispar_Anthias]

Nice tank..... If you stay near me, I dun mind hosting it for a while.....

Pmed me your add

[flipper]

Can anemones bleach? Anemones shrivel, shrink and "melt" when they die. I bought them all white with purple tips. I'm not sure why it is slightly brownish. You are right about that starfish. Didn't know it is not reef safe. It likes hugging my buttons, but leaves them wrinkled after that. [like women?]

I'm gonna try a new brand of nitrate test kit just to make sure it is not anything else. Any other more reliable ones than Tetra?

Cheers

[CalciumReef]

get salifert

[Mellow]

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies. Could be that my test kits are faulty.

All my corals seem to be doing well, including the clams. The remaining fishes seem very active.

Husbandry details:

Test kits - Tetra

Hi flipper,

I was also using a tetra nitrate test kit and it also showed 100mg/l... I've got a good feeling the test kits are not accurate. dun think any live stock can survive long with nitrate level of 100mg/l... but u might wanna consider removing the bio balls and ceramic rings in your sump...cheers bro and happy reefing. pretty neat tank u've got!

[fangtooth]

bro mellow,

1)if he were to remove ther ceramic rings, what can he replace it with?

2) and why must remove?

thanks.

[lightningstrike]

i think u should try using seachem denitrator.

[chrislwp]

bro mellow,

1)if he were to remove ther ceramic rings, what can he replace it with?

2) and why must remove?

thanks.

I use tetra too. After changing water, NO3 is 25ppm, but 2 weeks later back to 100ppm again..

Later I removed all the bioball (white/dry system) and leave the bioRing since it's fully soak in water. Now No3 tend to maintain at 25ppm after twice 50% water change.

What to replace bioball? I fill up with liverocks. Remember you LR must be fully soak in water.. so I put the LR in some container before putting in sump.

[Mellow]

Hi Fangtooth and Chrislwp,

Besides being nitrate factories, i dun like the idea of them(bio balls and ceramic rings) trapping all the detritus/dirt in between which eventually will have another boost on the nitrates... I think it might be better to have a bare sump instead. Or if u like, u can place large amounts of live rocks(berlin style) to lower the nitrates further or employ a refugium if u have the space...they are much better than bio balls or ceramic rings IMHO. A Denitrator is another alternative but I think it is better to set up a filter system that can support your bio load rather than using getting too many commercialized on products and wasting money...

Anyway, back to the tetra test kits...do u guys using it know what it means on the instructions outside the box where it says u have to divide the value we get by 4.4???

[flipper]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the help. Now....Totally confused.

1. I thought the whole idea of wet/dry system is to culture bacteria that thrives well in wet/dry vs submerged environments. To what extend is that true?

2. What's a denitrator? Is it a machine (sounds like it doesn't it?) or is it a material one puts in a nylon bag and let water flow through it?

3. Nitrate Factories - Is this a term for an undesired outcome or is this a necessary and natural consequence in the nitrogen cycle?

Appreciate any more advice / comments!

[terryansimon]

a denitrator is a contraption that allows water to flow through at a slow flow rate, so that the bacteria or whatever nitrate removing agent can take its time and work on the water as it flows through it.

[Achilles Tang]

Blenny.... your statement 'thus leaving with nitrate where it requires very low oxygen areas to cultivate.' is confusing.

It should be: Nitrates can be processed and reduced to harmless nitrogen gas by anaerobic bacteria that is cultivated in areas of very low oxygen content.

[ReeF_LoVeR]

Residual Nitrates in a Saltwater Aquarium have always been the cause of

many headaches for marine aquarists. Your tank is running just fine and

your fish are looking great. They have all found their own little space

that they can call their own, the territorial wars are over, your Ammonia and

Nitrite levels are zip, but your Nitrates are still a serious problem. You're

probably spending a small fortune in Sea Salts for water changes to keep

them in check (unless you are one of the fortunate few who live next to the

ocean and are willing to spend the time to bail water and pack it home) and

you think that "this is just way it is". Wrong!!! There are a number of

methods you can use to reduce or eliminate Nitrates in your tank without the

hassle of all the water changes.

Recommendations for marine tanks range from 10 to 40ppm nitrate ion for

fish-only tanks and 5 to 10ppm nitrate ion for reef systems. Many fish-only

tanks run at much higher levels, sometimes with no ill effects. The most

desirable amount is an immeasurable amount.

Mangroves

A new and growing method of filtration is with Mangroves. Mangroves

have been found to be an ecologically correct method of reducing Nitrates

and other toxins in an aquarium. Mangroves have the ability to survive and

actually thrive in a saltwater environment. Their root cells have the unique

ability to strain freshwater from saltwater. They feed on nitrates and

organics they derive from the water. Mangroves can be found in or near the

oceans in most of the tropical areas around the world. A lot are found

around brackish water areas.

Albert Thiel, of Thiel Technologies, has been a fore-runner in the research

of using the natural properties of the Mangrove to filter Nitrates and other

toxins from Saltwater Aquarium. When filtering with Mangroves you can

actually remove the protein skimmer from your system, which is

recommended after a period of time. You will be able to tell when to

remove it because it stops functioning. Thiel has an excellent article on

Mangroves In Saltwater Aquariums full of information about getting you

started with mangroves. Two on-line sites that you can find Mangrove

seeds available for purchase are at Mangroves Unlimited and Hawaiian

Quality Fish.

Denitrifying Filters

Denitrifying Filters are another filter that operates on the premise that

bacteria do all the work. The principle is real simple, flow water slowly

through a container or compartment in which a medium (usually carbon) can

grow bacteria, and the latter will slowly, but surely break down the nitrate

and remove it from the system. We highly recommend Hiatt Distributors

Limited Tri-Based Pelletized Carbon (TBPC) used in conjunction with

Hiatt's Distributors Limited Right Now Bacteria for this type of

Denitification. The Right Now is an excellent bacteria. It multiplies faster

than anything else on the market (2X in 15 minutes), and when combined

with the TBPC this combination controls Nitrates in your tank. We have

used these products for years with excellent results. You can use the TBPC

in place of your current biological filter. It has 100 times the surface area

per volume of BioBalls. Use the DIY Carbon Tube Filtration System and

you have a turn key system to use for over five years. He has designed his

carbon tube filtration system to pass water through a canister filter before

flowing through the carbon as a pre-filter to keep the carbon clean and

flowing properly.

NNR (Natural Nitrate Reduction)

The Jaubert System or Live Sand Filter set up using a plenum for controlling

nitrates by Natural Nitrate Reduction (NNR) is another method you can

use. Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. has a "NNR w/Jaubert Plenum & Eggshell

Substrate" article you might find an interesting read.

Denitrifying Units

Denitrators can be an expensive investment and very effective, but you must

take the time to regulate them properly. The N-Forcer (Nitrate Removal

System) is an electrochemical device consisting of an electronics control

circuit and flow cell containing electrodes. You can find out more about this

type of unit from UpScale Water Technologies. AquaDirect has a long list

of Denitrification Units to pick from, including the Coil Denitrator. These

are the least cost prohibitive units. If you are a do-it-yourselfer, Don

Carner's DIY Coil Denitrator and Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.'s Denitrator

Plans (Coil & Flat) are a good places to start for building your own and

saving money.

Using Compounds

Using compounds to lower nitrates is probably the most used and simplest

method of Nitrate Control. This is done by placing compounds like

No-Nitrate from Thiel Aqua Tech, or special filter material like Poly-Filters

from Poly Bio Marine Inc. in line with your water filtration flow, through a

canister filter or between the filter floss material in your mechanical filter.

Chemical Additive Denitrators

There are many on the market like Monolith Marine Monsters AZ-NO3. It

works entirely by aerobic Cellular Respiration on the target Nitrate molecule,

which is then removed by the Protein Skimmer. The oxidoreductases

necessary for these processes are the chemical mechanism of enzyme

action.

Reducing or controlling Nitrates in your system isn't really as hard as you

might think. There are a number of options to choose from. Pick the one

that is best for you, they all work. The minor outlay of time and money to

begin with will more than offset the reduction in time, energy and money in

less often water changes you have to do to control your Nitrate problems.

[terryansimon]

more than six months actually. (=

[shieldk]

Hi flipper,

I was also using a tetra nitrate test kit and it also showed 100mg/l... I've got a good feeling the test kits are not accurate. dun think any live stock can survive long with nitrate level of 100mg/l... but u might wanna consider removing the bio balls and ceramic rings in your sump...cheers bro and happy reefing. pretty neat tank u've got!

Yes, I believe it's the Tetra test kits problem.

Last week I tested my water after running for 1 month and it shows >100 mg/l. Initially panic and starts preparing for salt mix.

But after recovered from my nervous breakdown, I decided do a test on my fresh water tank and it still shows >100 mg/l.

Now after 1 week all my fish are still well and alive

Anyway will be doing a 10% water change tomorrow.

[flipper]

Hi all,

Just to update everyone on my nitrate problem.

Last week, I decided to go to war with this nitrate problem.

1. Changed 40% of the water (expensive!)

2. Added Seachem De*Nitrate (1 litre bottle)

3. Changed all the old wool

4. Increased the efficiency of my Skimmer, now powered by a 2500l/hr unit vs 2200l/hr.

5. Removed all the bioballs except those in the trickle compartment on the main tank.

6. Added 2 pads of Poly Filter

7. Added 1 unit of Chemi Pure

8. Added Phosguard to get rid of nuisance algae

9. Increased flow rate of tank from 10 times /hr to 13 times/hr.

10. Sew up hole in wallet.

I know I should have done this step-by-step to see what does what, but was desperate. I took a reading with my supposedly faulty Tetra Nitrate test kit and it fell drastically from 100mg/l to <25 mg/l.

I suspect the biggest impact was from the removal of the bioballs. My theory is that I have got so many bioballs (3 big packets) which the bacteria it was cultivating, were converting nitrite to nitrate, and not proportionately enough nitrate consuming bacteria (nitrosomanas or nitrobacter?) to convert them to nitrogen.

Thanks to all who contributed!

[lightningstrike]

hi,

i m oso facing the same problem. my tank oredi 3 mths liao. nitrate still at 100ppm or more. pls advise by pm. thks.

[spicyball]

Hey, did u guys divide the value shown by the test kit by 4.4??