HELP Fishes got white spot and velvet

[contrails]

Guys, I desperately need help right now. 1st time I have experienced white spots & velvet. After spending most of my last 3 weeks coaxing some of my fishes to take pellet and flake now I have this problem. I managed to get my Regal and butterflies to eat pellet and flake. Now all my butterflies got a bit of white spot or velvet. I believe this is because when I quarantine them the water conditions were not good enough. My mistake.

I am thiking of using Cupramine, problem is I am going overseas for 6 days, wife also travelling so left with the maid at home. Also with Cupramine can you run the skimmer? Last I tried all the dosing stuff gets skimmed off. And the skimmer gets stained as well. As I am not going to be around I can't do water change. Can't make my maid to do as well as she is looking after my little girl. I really have a big problem that I don't know how to solve. Would appreciate if anyone with such experience before can help me out. Am desperate. I don't want to loose my Regal, golden, yellow head and pakistani butterflies.

Please help

Thanks

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According to the sea chem web page, if you use cupramine, then do not use UV and skimmer. Wouldn't the water quality go bad like this? This is by far the biggest dillema that I have. Dose to treat the fish but water quality go bad which will in turn be counter productive to the whole treatment. What do you guys do?

[Morpheous]

I guess yours is a FOWLR system...

You can hypo your water, it helps to get rid of ich. but will not get red of velvet.

Copper is effective only at certain level... too much kills, too little no effect, but is the best way to cure it.

How long has this condition been? Usually velvet kills fish quick.

[Digiman]

Pls dose Cupramine immediately if it is velvet. Do not on UV (it'll reduce copper to some +1 stage which is apparently 10x more toxic). Skimmer can actually keep on running, but for first few days not wise to on it as need to increase the copper level gradually to 0.5ppm.

I'm currently using Cupramine, v effective as it actually takes effect at 0.25ppm. Within two days all spots gone and fish breathing back to normal. I currently increase to around 0.4 and kept it there. I off my UV and Skimmer for almost a week already, water parameters all still ok. Will on the skimmer after 14 days. Since your tank not too heavily stocked it's ok to leave skimmer off for a week. Cupramine mux at least be 0.25ppm. So b4 u leave, make sure copper >0.25ppm or can be more but not more than 0.5ppm.

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Thanks guys for the reply.

Yes my tank is FOWLR. Velvet actually started last week, I treated with Preis Cryptan in a quarantine tank then was ok, lost 1 racoon butterfly in the process. Regal and Golden was fine, however now I suspect the golden got a bit again. Regal looks healthy and eating well. Because I am travelling I got no choice but to put them all back into display tank. Too many for my maid to feed. ANd also bigger water system is more stable. I am also nursing the yellowhead buttefly to feed. Today he pecked a bit of my own food mixture. Golden, pakistani and yellowhead all got a bit of fin rot. Does the copper level drop over time, that's why you have to keep dosing? I have lowered the salinity to around 18ppt. I think any lower the skimer probably wouldn't work.

Thought I try cupramine since so many reefers got so much success with it. Only concern is that when I dose this all the stuff in the live rocks will die, polluting the water in the process.

[contrails]

Pls dose Cupramine immediately if it is velvet. Do not on UV (it'll reduce copper to some +1 stage which is apparently 10x more toxic). Skimmer can actually keep on running, but for first few days not wise to on it as need to increase the copper level gradually to 0.5ppm.

I'm currently using Cupramine, v effective as it actually takes effect at 0.25ppm. Within two days all spots gone and fish breathing back to normal. I currently increase to around 0.4 and kept it there. I off my UV and Skimmer for almost a week already, water parameters all still ok. Will on the skimmer after 14 days. Since your tank not too heavily stocked it's ok to leave skimmer off for a week. Cupramine mux at least be 0.25ppm. So b4 u leave, make sure copper >0.25ppm or can be more but not more than 0.5ppm.

DO you have live rocks in your tank? Will all the inverts that grow in it die and pollute the water? My problem is that I won't be around and so can't monitor water quality.

[FuEl]

http://www.reefcentral.net/forums/showthre...hreadid=1031844

If you have major inverts like corals or crustaceans you should remove them to another tank before treating the main tank with copper. I have tried cuprisorb and it worked rather well in removing the remaining copper. Since the tank is meant to be a FOWLR tank, you should'nt worry about remnant copper. Many people who keep FOWLR tanks maintain a constant copper level just for prevention.

[FuEl]

Dosing copper initially will impair the nitrification ability of your system. Do get products to detoxify a 1-2 day expected increase in ammonia. You could try products like API Ammo-lock, or any other product which binds ammonia, even Seachem Prime would work. After that your nitrification should return to normal.

[Digiman]

DO you have live rocks in your tank? Will all the inverts that grow in it die and pollute the water? My problem is that I won't be around and so can't monitor water quality.

I've LR, but now should be dead already. Not only copper, Hypo will also kill the life in the LR, there will be some decay, but it so minimal that it will not pollute the water unless your whole tank is packed w LR. Cupramine is quite stable, once reach 0.4ppm no need to redose much. So as long as u bring it up to 0.4ppm, it'll take quite long to drop to 0.25ppm which is in time for your return for next redose. Water quality will not be affected drastically in jux 6 days so there is no cause for worries. Underdose is better than overdose.

[Digiman]

For the fin rot u can add a little amount of melafix, jux small amount will do. I also add seachem stability as recommended to restore the denitrifying bacteria colony in the filter system. Adding some eco reefsolution will also help in bringing back the health of the fishes faster.

[Digiman]

Melafix will make the skimmer go crazy, so for myself i only add to QT tank. If adding to main tank i use only 1/10 dosage or even lesser.

[FuEl]

I can pop by check for you if you need. I only 2-3 min drive away.

[hammy]

Dosing copper initially will impair the nitrification ability of your system. Do get products to detoxify a 1-2 day expected increase in ammonia. You could try products like API Ammo-lock, or any other product which binds ammonia, even Seachem Prime would work. After that your nitrification should return to normal.

DO NOT add seachem prime with cupramine.

it will reduce copper 2+ to copper 1+ which is 10x more toxic.

for fowlr, cupramine is one of the best way to go to control ich for fowlr

hypo have their advantage... but i find dosing copper easier .. but required good testkit. i check my copper level with API and salifert... both give relative same results

[contrails]

Thanks everyone for your quick replies and informative advise. Will update you guys. Plan to do water change and start dosing cupramine tomm before I leave. And hope..........

[contrails]

I can pop by check for you if you need. I only 2-3 min drive away.

Thanks a lot bro for the offer. Very much appreciated. I will try to see if my brother can come over and help me out as he stays very closeby. If not I might have to trouble you. Will let you know. Thanks again for the nice gesture.

[contrails]

Just check web page of seachem. It says that it is recommended to run the skimmer with the treatment

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Dosed cupramine today. Does anyone know if you can dose paraguard at the same time? Search all over the island for salifert Cu test kit but couldn't find. Finally have to settle for red sea test kit. Is it reliable? Anyone use this please give some feedback thanks. After dosing the correct amount according to the bottle when I test for Cu 6 hours later it is only showing 0.1 ppm on the red sea test kit. Could it be that it is absorded somewhere? I turned my skimmer off all this while. Got live rocks and sand in the tank.

Thanks again

[contrails]

I can pop by check for you if you need. I only 2-3 min drive away.

Bro, I am going to get my brother to check on my copper levels. Thanks for the offer. Much appreciated.

[reeftask]

you should quarantine all your fishes in another tank or bring out the LR/sands.

Copper and other chemicals will be absorbed to LR/sand forever.

Bad water conditions will not bring velvet/white spots to your fishes. They might got in through bad quarantine or no quarantine.