Need advise on all in one covered tank.

[jminter]

Hi there,

Need some advise, helps on the marine setup and cycling of my new tank.

I bought this 1(L)x1(W)x1.5(H) all in one tank with 3 stage filter system(so called) and power head(600L/hr) with cover and lights. The brand is Oceanfree.

Is there any possibility to change the whole filtration setup to better suit marine setup? The filtration system is 3 stage with sponge(black colour) ->ceramic rings -> fine filter media -> carbon -> power head to push back filtered water.

I cannot fit a skimmer in, need advise.

The water quality seems not ideal as i see particle floating in the tank and flow like very slow leh, I feel power head not strong enough.

Pls advise.

Looks like this:

[albinosage]

Actually the filtration compartments are sufficient for marine use, since most of the water is also filtered by live rocks. What matters is what you put inside the compartments - try to replace any stock filter media like bio-rings or charcoal (I heard that carbon that comes packaged with tanks like this are usually not suitable for marine use). The bio-rings will trap detritus which leech nitrates into the water.

As for powerhead, most will advocate one with a higher flowrate, although I suppose yours is sufficient as the tank is around 30 litres and 600l/h is 20 times the volume of your tank. Circulation is quite important for the reef set up - I don't know if a wave maker will make your tank too cramped, but you can compensate for that by using a higher rated power head, that's what I did with my 12 gallon tank last time.

[Fuzzy]

Unfortunately what tends to happen to these tanks most of the time, is that the cover gets removed and the frankenstein-ing begins.

Both in Freshwater and Saltwater, unless you're running a chiller, the cover tends to trap heat and raise water temperature.

Also frequently the light is not strong enough and installing better equipment (powerheads, filters, skimmers) is very hard if not impossible with the cover on.

[jminter]

thanks for he advise n replies.

The intention is to keep simple marine setup: LRs, 2 corals and 5small fishes.

I felt the power head is not doing enough work, abt 5-600l/h flow, so got an eheim compact 600 pump to mod.

here's comes my mod. Works!

I oso wanting to keep the temp. Low, cos currently ard 30C which is on high side.

any mini chillier to recommend, bros?

I oso intend to put in a skimmer, but no minature type one. Why recommendation?

Seem like need to remove the cover for mod. Jobs, but dun wanna spolit the asthetic of the tank n trying to house them inside or out of sight n keep the cover on.

Saw aquamarine got a few nicely done all in one covered nano tank n wanna emmulate them.

Hope for some advises...

[jminter]

1 more question:

My life rock has some white patches on the surface and greyish patches as well. I assume they are dead spots, right?

Do I take it out and scape it off or leave it in the cycling tank?

I see some small hairy things growing out of the life rocks??? What is that? Is it bad?!

[jminter]

just did a few tests and the parameters gathered as follows: :

PH : 8.0

Amonia : 1.0

Nitrite : 5.0

Nitrate : 20.0

questions:

1) Will I be seeing both amonia and nitrite dropping in next few more days of cycling or should I do a 25% water change to bring them down?

2) Will Nitrate continue to rise at this current juncture or should be falling down?

[Fuzzy]

just did a few tests and the parameters gathered as follows: :

PH : 8.0

Amonia : 1.0

Nitrite : 5.0

Nitrate : 20.0

questions:

1) Will I be seeing both amonia and nitrite dropping in next few more days of cycling or should I do a 25% water change to bring them down?

2) Will Nitrate continue to rise at this current juncture or should be falling down?

Don't change any water until Ammonia is 0, Nitrates should be increasing if the cycling is going well.

The white/grey patches should be dead or decaying matter, did you wash/scrub/clean your live rock before you put it in?

Sounds like it was not fully cured yet, should not be a problem, will just take a little longer to cycle. Also explains why you

still have ammonia readings at 20ppm nitrate.

What kind of water did you use to fill the tank? Dechlorinated tapwater with salt mix?

Also what is your water temperature and can you keep it below 30C at all times?

[jminter]

Don't change any water until Ammonia is 0, Nitrates should be increasing if the cycling is going well.

The white/grey patches should be dead or decaying matter, did you wash/scrub/clean your live rock before you put it in?

Sounds like it was not fully cured yet, should not be a problem, will just take a little longer to cycle. Also explains why you

still have ammonia readings at 20ppm nitrate.

What kind of water did you use to fill the tank? Dechlorinated tapwater with salt mix?

Also what is your water temperature and can you keep it below 30C at all times?

I am oso puzzled by the test result??? Ammonia still detected even with presence of nitrate??? confused...

I top up/ change water bought from LFS which is salt/sea water at about 15-20% every week. Now on my 3rd week cycling. I did precleaning of the LR b4 putting in and b4 there wasnt any dead patches.

I am trying to keep(thinking of which best way) to the temp before 30C. Most prob using fans to blow them since it's a small tank.

!!! Today I discovered my tank has some unusual moving things!!!

I saw worm like(2 tiny ones) lying on my sand bed!!! Yucks! Is this bad???

Is my water totally wasted with this 'worm'. Pls advise what should I do now? the water do not smell at all.

Now stress ah!!! Should I do cycling all over again?

Pls help!

[albinosage]

I am oso puzzled by the test result??? Ammonia still detected even with presence of nitrate??? confused...

It is normal. Ammonia doesn't disappear completely once nitrite appears. It will slowly fall as nitrite rises. Ammonia only disappears when nitrite peaks.

I top up/ change water bought from LFS which is salt/sea water at about 15-20% every week. Now on my 3rd week cycling.

This is the reason why your ANN readings are inconsistent - you are not supposed to change water when cycling! So you dilute the water, which will trick you into believing that your cycling is progressing when you are actually slowing it down, and when you think cycling is complete when nitrite is undetectable, that is where the troubles start. The insufficient bacteria population and unstable filtration will not be able to handle the bio load of fishes when you add them in, then ammonia will build up all over again and the instability will probably kill your fishes.

I guess it is too late to say all that since you have already changed the water over the last 3 weeks, so I guess what you can do is to let it run longer than the usual cycling period to ensure that the tank is stable.

!!! Today I discovered my tank has some unusual moving things!!!

I saw worm like(2 tiny ones) lying on my sand bed!!! Yucks! Is this bad???

Is my water totally wasted with this 'worm'. Pls advise what should I do now? the water do not smell at all.

The worms are most probably harmless. You'll be surprised how many worms there are hidden in the sand and rocks. They are mostly beneficial to the system.

[jminter]

OIC. Noted. the changing water will have to stop immediately and do it longer then.

Is it norm to see LR dying off with white patches? Should I scrap them all off and put it back or leave them as it is?

The worms that I saw today is like this tiny caterpillar lookalike thingy on my seabed and they r alive!

I see my LR has some holes opening up and it is getting bigger by the days. Is it norm? and oso the LR got some 'hairs' growing out of it. is this norm? what r those actually?

Should I leave anything as it is or introduce some chemicals to clear up the impurities in the water while cycling is still on-going?

[Fuzzy]

OIC. Noted. the changing water will have to stop immediately and do it longer then.

Is it norm to see LR dying off with white patches? Should I scrap them all off and put it back or leave them as it is?

The worms that I saw today is like this tiny caterpillar lookalike thingy on my seabed and they r alive!

I see my LR has some holes opening up and it is getting bigger by the days. Is it norm? and oso the LR got some 'hairs' growing out of it. is this norm? what r those actually?

Should I leave anything as it is or introduce some chemicals to clear up the impurities in the water while cycling is still on-going?

Leave the live rock where it is, after the rock has cured the patches should disappear. Sounds like bristleworms, they will help keep your sandbed sifted and clean.

Don't introduce any chemicals to the water at all. Once the Ammonia is 0, do a 50% water change and retest all parameters. I think your cycle was unable to complete properly

because of water changes, leave it alone for another 2 weeks and then test.

By the way are all your pumps/filters/circulation running? they should be all running, except for your skimmer, lights are optional.

[albinosage]

Once the Ammonia is 0, do a 50% water change and retest all parameters.

Correction: Once the Ammonia and nitrite is 0, do a 50% water change and retest all parameters.

[jminter]

Leave the live rock where it is, after the rock has cured the patches should disappear. Sounds like bristleworms, they will help keep your sandbed sifted and clean.

Don't introduce any chemicals to the water at all. Once the Ammonia is 0, do a 50% water change and retest all parameters. I think your cycle was unable to complete properly

because of water changes, leave it alone for another 2 weeks and then test.

By the way are all your pumps/filters/circulation running? they should be all running, except for your skimmer, lights are optional.

Thanks for the advise.

I took out the LR and scrap off the white patches(as much as I can) and put in back. Saw a few worm in the process, think the LR is still breeding some worms and crab/snail like creatures. Quite yucky...

I wait leave everything as it is for the next weeks and monitor the cycling process then.

Yes, all the pumps and circulation are working, though I felt the stock pump is not strong enough. Never mind then, just cycle the tank first with everything stocks, except i changed the O-rings and carbon to all marine 'spec' ones and the sponges are all there.

The stock filtration system hopefully can support the environment. bit regret getting nano tank, pretty quite to manage them. Cos of space constraints to fit in skimmers, cooling equipment, etc. Might end up taking out the cover. wa pian eh!

May I ask if the white patches will clear off eventually(alive again with Coraline algae) or it will remains as dead part(white patches) of the LR?

All those worms, crab/snail thingy common to see in cycling of water and LR? I heard its bcos the LR is not cured properly before put in?I bought them from LFS.

[albinosage]

May I ask if the white patches will clear off eventually(alive again with Coraline algae) or it will remains as dead part(white patches) of the LR?

All those worms, crab/snail thingy common to see in cycling of water and LR? I heard its bcos the LR is not cured properly before put in?I bought them from LFS.

Just cause it's white doesn't mean it's dead. The bacteria that house themselves in the rocks are invisible to the n@ked eye. A rock can be totally white, and yet be "alive". Coraline algae will grow on the rocks when the calcium level is maintained through dosing additives and water change, it has nothing to do with whether the rock is alive, it is just an aesthetically pleasing bonus.

As for worms and crabs, they hitch hike from the ocean when rocks are harvested, some are pests, like bobbit worms, mantis shrimps or non reef safe crabs. Do read up on what's harmful and what's not. Most caterpillar-like worms that you describe, are fire worms or bristle worms, which are harmless, they help you finish up uneaten food, and help stir the sand bed. It is impossible to remove each and every single one of them

[Fuzzy]

Correction: Once the Ammonia and nitrite is 0, do a 50% water change and retest all parameters.

Ah yes good catch! Nitrite 0 too!

Yeah having these hitch-hikers is quite normal, as most LR you buy from LFS will not be fully cured.

One thing though is you should try to remove most of these undesirable add-ons _before_ you put the LR in to cure and cycle

Not a big deal though, just got a little more work cut out for you (hunting) later on before you put any livestock in.

You might want to consider adding a wavemaker into your tank now, it might help speed up cycling, and you will eventually need one

to improve tank circulation any way. I'd recommend going with a Hydor Koralia Nano or Hydor Koralia 1. The Seio 620 is also quite economical, but I find those to be a little more bulky and unsightly, heh.

[jminter]

I m a bit puzzled.

What do u mean by resetting the parameter with 50% water change?

will the water change induce amonia n nitrite again with 'new' water?

My tis morning test results r very promising!

amo & nitrite is 0.0.

nitrate is 20ppm.

So the next step is to do 50% water change n can start introduce LS?

or still need to cycle a few more days n test all parameters again to ensure amo & nitrite is 0. N nitrate to 0.0 with final 2nd 50% water change?

PLs advise.

thanks.

[albinosage]

What do u mean by resetting the parameter with 50% water change?

will the water change induce amonia n nitrite again with 'new' water?

I think he meant, 50% water change after ammonia and nitrite becomes undetectable, cos that is a sign that cycling is complete.

Water change is to dilute/remove the end product, nitrate. Let's say yours is 20ppm, 50% water change will export 10ppm out, dilute the rest of the water till 10ppm remaining. If you change a further 50% after that it will be diluted further to 5ppm. Without a skimmer or denitrator, this is usually how people export nutrients. Water change won't set off ANN cycle again, the purpose of water change is to remove pollutants. It's waste like rotting food and fish crap that contributes to the cycle.

[jminter]

thanks for the clarification.

In the name of conservation of precious water, can I use reuse the water the water that was took out?

Was thinking of using the drained out water which has

nitrate only that is not harmful to fishes as quarantine area with top of new water? Does it make sense? W

[albinosage]

thanks for the clarification.

In the name of conservation of precious water, can I use reuse the water the water that was took out?

Was thinking of using the drained out water which has

nitrate only that is not harmful to fishes as quarantine area with top of new water? Does it make sense? W

Yah I do that sometimes, it's okay for temporary use. But remember, nitrates will only keep rising, the water you took out will have 20ppm concentration as starting point, it will only keep climbing and climbing even if used in a fish only QT tank.

[Fuzzy]

thanks for the clarification.

In the name of conservation of precious water, can I use reuse the water the water that was took out?

Was thinking of using the drained out water which has

nitrate only that is not harmful to fishes as quarantine area with top of new water? Does it make sense? W

My advice is to let the waste water go, I use waste water from my Freshwater tanks to water plants, but have not figured out any

use for my marine water changes aside from washing filtration or bio media, can't even use to wash floor, heh.

You probably want equal or better water quality to your main tank in your quarantine tank. Reason being, any fish or livestock being held in quarantine will probably

already be stressed from sickness, or stressed from the store, they will do better with water closer to ideal parameters.

[jminter]

need advise again.

After 2 rounds of 50% water change n cycling, my nitrate level is at

detectable range of 20. Even before water change, already at 20.

What should I do?

Should I cycle longer or should I get the nitrate reducing chemical?

or I can ignore it n start introduce fishes?

[albinosage]

What test kit are you using? Any live stock already in the tank? Check for any rotting organism hidden or stuck somewhere. The only reason nitrate is still at 20ppm before and after water change is either an unreliable test kit or something in the tank producing nitrate.

[jminter]

am using API marine test kit, should be reliable. I think so?

I do not have any dead things inside the tank except for 1 gobi(sand swallow and spit out fish).

only LR inside. been cycling for more than 1 month.

[albinosage]

am using API marine test kit, should be reliable. I think so?

Oh... API NO3 test kit is a bit inaccurate between 20 to 40 ppm. You might have misread the "before" readings. Hard to differentiate between orange and red in that range.

[RockyBoy]

Are you using tap water to do your water change? Tap water contain lots of stuffs including nitrates.

Best if you use distilled or DI or DI/RO water, so that you will not put the impurities back into your tank.