My first 8G/30L Boyu Nano tank... help needed?

[lostboy_cal]

Hi Bro & Sis...

Is been a while since the last update on my 8G tank

Good news.. good good news.

Have test the water this morning...

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0.25

Nitrate - 20

:rolleyes:

If I'm not wrong, the fully cycle reading should be

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - between 10 - 20 (correct me if I'm wrong)

Upon cycle, what's the next thing I need to do before adding LS?

Must I change the water or just top up water will do.

Filter clean & wash? anything need to be remove?

Pls advice...I'm excited

Previously, iskay reefer advice on the LS demanding.. and now I have come out with the shopping list

"Generally, LS from least demanding to most (in my opinion).

Least

Fishes

Inverts

soft corals

LPS

SPS

Most

Don't even try SPS until your tank is stabilized for at least 6 months."

Fishes - CLOWN FISH (2x), FIREFISH GOBY(1), GREEN MANDARIN(1), BICOLOR BLENNY(1), BLUE/GREEN CHROMIS(2)

Inverts - CLEANER SHRIMP, RED BALI STARFISH

.... will do it slowly... every week one LS

Hope is not too much...hahahahaha

BTW.. anemones is something I really like... which category does it fall under?

As for coral... still hunting .... :whistle

Again, I would like to say to the helpful bro & sis for the suggestion and advice. Thanks you.

[albinosage]

Wah bro, you're one of the most patient new comers to post in recent memory, great job!

Your NO2 should clear by tomorrow or Friday, just in time for weekend shopping

Your nitrate should be around 10 to 20+ ppm or maybe more, at the end of the process. You should change water out to remove/dilute the nitrates. I did two 50% changes a couple of days apart after cycling. Let's say nitrates are at 20ppm, the first 50% change will reduce it to 10ppm, the second water change will half it again to 5ppm. Of course, since there are no live stocks, it might even be possible to do a complete water change - if I'm wrong on this point, someone please correct me.

Do not wash your biohome, the only thing in your filter compartment you should wash is the sponge or filter floss (mechanical filter), cos they are there to trap debris and crap. When you siphon out water, also use the chance to vacuum out the deterious or whatever debris is gathering on the sand bed.

As for fish, best to buy small ones - better scaled for your tank and contribute less to the bioload of the tank (and a good excuse to buy a bigger tank when they outgrow the space ). The 7 fishes you mentioned do sound a bit too much, even if they are small. I don't think your tank has enough swimming space for the whole tank, especially if you are planning to stock corals.

For my previous 12 gallon tank, I planned my live stock by diving them into three groups: Bottom dwellers, free swimming and clingers. The idea is to have a balanced distribution of livestock throughout the tank so they don't get in each other's way.

Your selection of live stock will look like this:

Those that hang out at the bottom (2):

GREEN MANDARIN(1), BICOLOR BLENNY(1)

Mandarin fish is not advisable for nano tanks, do read up on their feeding habits, a lot die of starvation

Those that swim in the water column (5):

CLOWN FISH (2x), FIREFISH GOBY(1), BLUE/GREEN CHROMIS(2)

Those that cling on to stuff:

CLEANER SHRIMP, RED BALI STARFISH

For you tank size, one or two in each category is already tethering on the limit, and requires a good skimmer and regular water change.

[lostboy_cal]

Thanks... credit should thanks to you intro the BIOHOME.

Works well after change the BIOHOME.

BTW, what is the recommend value for NITRATE? If do a full water change wouldn't it reset to "0"??

Okie.. will do a the washing of the sponges.

BTW, you mention you had a skimmer to let go? is it still available? What's the size so i can do measure and check does it fit to my small compartment.

Note on the over-stock of the fishes. Not to mention I have not add in the coral

Will check on any outbreak of the ammonia everything I add in fish. If it does rise.. will stop. hee hee.

As what you have mention, will reconsider the cute looking Mandarin fish. will do read more on this fellow.

If I got one, will let you know.. see how long I can keep this fellow

Also, will DIY some small White LED for the day and Blue LED on the cover.. Hope it works

Will post some pix once intro Nemo in.

Thanks.

Wah bro, you're one of the most patient new comers to post in recent memory, great job!

Your NO2 should clear by tomorrow or Friday, just in time for weekend shopping

Your nitrate should be around 10 to 20+ ppm or maybe more, at the end of the process. You should change water out to remove/dilute the nitrates. I did two 50% changes a couple of days apart after cycling. Let's say nitrates are at 20ppm, the first 50% change will reduce it to 10ppm, the second water change will half it again to 5ppm. Of course, since there are no live stocks, it might even be possible to do a complete water change - if I'm wrong on this point, someone please correct me.

Do not wash your biohome, the only thing in your filter compartment you should wash is the sponge or filter floss (mechanical filter), cos they are there to trap debris and crap. When you siphon out water, also use the chance to vacuum out the deterious or whatever debris is gathering on the sand bed.

As for fish, best to buy small ones - better scaled for your tank and contribute less to the bioload of the tank (and a good excuse to buy a bigger tank when they outgrow the space ). The 7 fishes you mentioned do sound a bit too much, even if they are small. I don't think your tank has enough swimming space for the whole tank, especially if you are planning to stock corals.

For my previous 12 gallon tank, I planned my live stock by diving them into three groups: Bottom dwellers, free swimming and clingers. The idea is to have a balanced distribution of livestock throughout the tank so they don't get in each other's way.

Your selection of live stock will look like this:

Those that hang out at the bottom (2):

GREEN MANDARIN(1), BICOLOR BLENNY(1)

Mandarin fish is not advisable for nano tanks, do read up on their feeding habits, a lot die of starvation

Those that swim in the water column (5):

CLOWN FISH (2x), FIREFISH GOBY(1), BLUE/GREEN CHROMIS(2)

Those that cling on to stuff:

CLEANER SHRIMP, RED BALI STARFISH

For you tank size, one or two in each category is already tethering on the limit, and requires a good skimmer and regular water change.

[albinosage]

Recommended value for nitrates should be as low as possible if not zero hahaha... Although fish and soft corals can tolerate slightly higher levels. I am not sure if it is okay to change 100% water after cycling though it is logical in theory.

The skimmer I have is 40cm tall I think, if it is too long you can trim the plastic tubing. I mean, I got it free from another reefer, and I'm giving it to you FOC, so you can use and abuse it anyway you want lah

[lostboy_cal]

Recommended value for nitrates should be as low as possible if not zero hahaha... Although fish and soft corals can tolerate slightly higher levels. I am not sure if it is okay to change 100% water after cycling though it is logical in theory.

The skimmer I have is 40cm tall I think, if it is too long you can trim the plastic tubing. I mean, I got it free from another reefer, and I'm giving it to you FOC, so you can use and abuse it anyway you want lah

Wait bro... i'm getting confuse now...

1st stage - Ammonia zero.. understand.

2nd stage - Nitrite zero.. understand

Final stage - Nitrate low to zero.... confuse...

Initial when i purchase the "process water" from the fish shop, i make a test before placing it inside the tank, it measure "zero" and after the 1 month of cycle, if nitrate also need to "zero", what is the purpose for the cycling process?? i'm confuse...

Thanks.. will collect the skimmer from you lets arrange a date and time.. Will PM you.

Cheers

[albinosage]

The purpose of the cycling process is to cultivate the denitrifying bacteria in your tank, they will grow in the live rocks and your filter media (biohome in your case). The bacteria that has established in your tank can now convert ammonia and nitrites from your fish's waste into the less lethal nitrate. But nitrate in high concentration can be harmful to your fish and corals, and cause algae bloom.

Some people tackle it chemically with denitrators and off the shelf products, some keep cheato or macro algae in the sump to convert nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas. In a nano tank where space is a constraint, the only option is to change water regularly to dilute the nitrates. Anyway I just realised I didn't reply your previous PM, the basket of "grass" in my previous tank is the above mentioned cheato. In theory, it photosynthesizes in the presence of light and converts nitrates into nitrogen and oxygen. Sadly, what I have doesn't seem to help much hahaha.

[lostboy_cal]

The purpose of the cycling process is to cultivate the denitrifying bacteria in your tank, they will grow in the live rocks and your filter media (biohome in your case). The bacteria that has established in your tank can now convert ammonia and nitrites from your fish's waste into the less lethal nitrate. But nitrate in high concentration can be harmful to your fish and corals, and cause algae bloom.

Some people tackle it chemically with denitrators and off the shelf products, some keep cheato or macro algae in the sump to convert nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas. In a nano tank where space is a constraint, the only option is to change water regularly to dilute the nitrates. Anyway I just realised I didn't reply your previous PM, the basket of "grass" in my previous tank is the above mentioned cheato. In theory, it photosynthesizes in the presence of light and converts nitrates into nitrogen and oxygen. Sadly, what I have doesn't seem to help much hahaha.

okie.. got it now understand..

now i need to wait till nitrite falls to 0 and change water to push the nitrate to 0 too...if possible..hahha.

BTW, my tank water did evaporate and water level drops after i place in the surface skimmer. Can dun change water dun wash filter...hahahhaa..just top up about 3 liters of distilled water?.. can I change water and wash filter after i place the fish a week later?

Understand there is no shortcut.. but any shortcut ?

Want to consider using LED light for that "grass" portion.. more light more photosynthesis...

[boxerz]

okie.. got it now understand..

now i need to wait till nitrite falls to 0 and change water to push the nitrate to 0 too...if possible..hahha.

BTW, my tank water did evaporate and water level drops after i place in the surface skimmer. Can dun change water dun wash filter...hahahhaa..just top up about 3 liters of distilled water?.. can I change water and wash filter after i place the fish a week later?

Understand there is no shortcut.. but any shortcut ?

Want to consider using LED light for that "grass" portion.. more light more photosynthesis...

Your water level decrease you should be topping off with the same amount of pure water that decreased to keep up with the salinity you kept it at.

[lostboy_cal]

Your water level decrease you should be topping off with the same amount of pure water that decreased to keep up with the salinity you kept it at.

You are right bro... i totally forgot about the salinity. Just top up 1.5L of water(max) and will monitor again

Cheers

[lostboy_cal]

Is me again...hahhahaa

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 20

Done some read up again

Will do a 50-75% water change and clean up the sponge tomorrow and let it run over the weekend.

Therefore Monday will test for the parameter again. Hope everything runs well

Then will "chong" down to get the first pair of clown fish and place the fellow in. Again will monitor for a week.

Any one can recommend good FS at Pasir Pis Farmway since i purchase the "process" water from there?

I usually went to this place, near the round-about but the stock fish is quite limited... think they do export or deliver out to LFS island wide.

Every week (Monday)schedule :

- Check parameter : make sure everything is "zero"

- Wash sponges and change 25% of water.

- Add fish every week(if possible) base on my shopping list.

Anything missing??

Hope my patience will stay

[Fuzzy]

Congrats bro! good to hear everything worked out.

Removing nitrates is the easy part! just need some elbow grease and fresh saltwater mix.

Try not to change more than 50% water at once. Change 50% today, top back up to full.

Then tomorrow change 50% again.

There is some debate going on still about whether Treated Natural Salt Water (NSW) is a good thing to use, but I think most reefers here use a salt mix instead of NSW.

The water quality is more consistent and guaranteed to be free of pollutants. You might want to consider visiting some of the more popular LFS and enquire about buying

a jerry can of saltwater. Usually its about $10 for the 30L Jerry can deposit and about $15 - $20 for the saltwater, in a tank your size, buy one jerry can should be able

to last 2 - 3 months of water changes.

I used to buy mine from Aquamarin, but recently bought a Crystal Pro Deionization system so I can mix with tapwater at home, easier on the back those jerry cans are _heavy_.

Avoid anemone in a tank this size, it will most likely end in disaster and become a tank bomb.

They are really disastrous in nano tanks, especially if they die or get caught in a powerhead when wandering around can read up more on them in invertebrates forum.

You can have a look at this link for suggestions on fish suitable for nano tanks, they have quite a big list.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquariu...s.cfm?c=15+2124

Oh and also be sure to slowly acclimatize your fish to your new tank, don't just plonk them in.

Floating the bag to equalize the temperature is not good enough, after doing that you need to put them in a temporary container, and slowly add water from your tank to

the container over the period of 1 hour or so.

Pour out some of the water they came in so there is not too much, but enough for them to be comfortable in the container for the time being,

then start adding a few tablespoons of water from your tank every few minutes, until the water in the temporary container is about double what it came in, and you should be ok.

If this sounds a bit tedious, you can look up the "drip method" for acclimatizing livestock.

Is me again...hahhahaa

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 20

Done some read up again

Will do a 50-75% water change and clean up the sponge tomorrow and let it run over the weekend.

Therefore Monday will test for the parameter again. Hope everything runs well

Then will "chong" down to get the first pair of clown fish and place the fellow in. Again will monitor for a week.

Any one can recommend good FS at Pasir Pis Farmway since i purchase the "process" water from there?

I usually went to this place, near the round-about but the stock fish is quite limited... think they do export or deliver out to LFS island wide.

Every week (Monday)schedule :

- Check parameter : make sure everything is "zero"

- Wash sponges and change 25% of water.

- Add fish every week(if possible) base on my shopping list.

Anything missing??

Hope my patience will stay

[lostboy_cal]

Thanks bro, Yes.. I did a 50% change of water on Sunday and will do another water change later part of the day.

Will monitor the nitrate level and hope it drop from 20 to 10 to 5

True, after numbers of feedback on anemone as "time bomb" and long consideration, will give a skip on this fellow.

Any idea which coral or SPS or LPS etc look like the anemones? want something that nemo can have fun

For the self-mix or treated salt water, will read up more and make a compare.

Again.. thanks for your help.

Hope everything will turn out well and the next posting will be pix.

Congrats bro! good to hear everything worked out.

Removing nitrates is the easy part! just need some elbow grease and fresh saltwater mix.

Try not to change more than 50% water at once. Change 50% today, top back up to full.

Then tomorrow change 50% again.

There is some debate going on still about whether Treated Natural Salt Water (NSW) is a good thing to use, but I think most reefers here use a salt mix instead of NSW.

The water quality is more consistent and guaranteed to be free of pollutants. You might want to consider visiting some of the more popular LFS and enquire about buying

a jerry can of saltwater. Usually its about $10 for the 30L Jerry can deposit and about $15 - $20 for the saltwater, in a tank your size, buy one jerry can should be able

to last 2 - 3 months of water changes.

I used to buy mine from Aquamarin, but recently bought a Crystal Pro Deionization system so I can mix with tapwater at home, easier on the back those jerry cans are _heavy_.

Avoid anemone in a tank this size, it will most likely end in disaster and become a tank bomb.

They are really disastrous in nano tanks, especially if they die or get caught in a powerhead when wandering around can read up more on them in invertebrates forum.

You can have a look at this link for suggestions on fish suitable for nano tanks, they have quite a big list.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquariu...s.cfm?c=15+2124

Oh and also be sure to slowly acclimatize your fish to your new tank, don't just plonk them in.

Floating the bag to equalize the temperature is not good enough, after doing that you need to put them in a temporary container, and slowly add water from your tank to

the container over the period of 1 hour or so.

Pour out some of the water they came in so there is not too much, but enough for them to be comfortable in the container for the time being,

then start adding a few tablespoons of water from your tank every few minutes, until the water in the temporary container is about double what it came in, and you should be ok.

If this sounds a bit tedious, you can look up the "drip method" for acclimatizing livestock.

[albinosage]

Any idea which coral or SPS or LPS etc look like the anemones? want something that nemo can have fun

Clowns can host on practically any LPS or soft corals, but it depends on their individual personality too, some are more needy for a home than others. I've got 4 common clowns and 3 anemones in one tank but they refuse to host on the anemone, whereas in another tank, I've got a clown hosting on a bubble coral.

If you are looking for a coral that resembles an anemone, you can try long tentacle LPS like torch, octo or frogspawn. With some luck, the clown will probably host on it.

[yikai]

have a pair of teriminally retarded clownfishes. provide them with 3 torch corals, 3 hammer corals, 1 forgspawn, 1 elegance, i practically run the gamut of "long tentacled" corals for my clowns and they don't even host anything ): some ppl clown host powerheads and what not...mine just swims against the current. lol. so wanted to see them play in corals but oh well...

[lostboy_cal]

Cool... nice LPS.

Let me settle the fish before moving to LPS.

Does the LPS mention require a chiller?

Clowns can host on practically any LPS or soft corals, but it depends on their individual personality too, some are more needy for a home than others. I've got 4 common clowns and 3 anemones in one tank but they refuse to host on the anemone, whereas in another tank, I've got a clown hosting on a bubble coral.

If you are looking for a coral that resembles an anemone, you can try long tentacle LPS like torch, octo or frogspawn. With some luck, the clown will probably host on it.

[lostboy_cal]

Hi Bro,

I dun have any torch coral now but i realize my little clown fish like to swim against the current. Hope they die of tiredness

have a pair of teriminally retarded clownfishes. provide them with 3 torch corals, 3 hammer corals, 1 forgspawn, 1 elegance, i practically run the gamut of "long tentacled" corals for my clowns and they don't even host anything ): some ppl clown host powerheads and what not...mine just swims against the current. lol. so wanted to see them play in corals but oh well...

[lostboy_cal]

error... don't die of tiredness

[albinosage]

Yup most LPS will require less than 28 degrees. Normally, air con environment or fans can keep the temp at 26 to 28 degrees.

[Fuzzy]

Hows your tank coming along?

Any pictures for us? hehe.

[lostboy_cal]

Hi Bro & Sis,

Is been a while since my last update... Busy with works

OK... Is updating time...

1st.. My bad.. Can't stop the temptation for adding fish, fishes and more fishes..

What's in the tank...

Crown Fish x2

Chromis x1 (another 1 is dead)

FireFish x1

Watchman Yellow Goby x1

Cleaner Shrimps and Jawfish.. coming soon

Pls see pix... not very clear...

2nd... Everything is ok except NITRATE.. between 5-15 despite lots of water change (1 week twice) and add some Coral chips given by a fishshop. What's when wrong?????? Suspect is the black sand I have which I think is not for saltwater.. I really dun know??

If really need to change the sand, must i cycle it?

Cheers

[albinosage]

Actually 5-15ppm is still within the acceptable range, some say the threshold for nitrates in a FOWLR or soft corals and LPS reef tank is 20-25ppm. Mine usually hovers around 5-10ppm too, with 25% water change every 4 days.

Within a small tank, the conversion of nitrates to harmless nitrogen is slow, if not non existent, so water change is the only way to constantly dilute it, cos the fish eat and sh!t everyday right? If you change the water today, it will climb back up within the next few days, that's why nano tanks are very troublesome, high maintainence.

Wah why you stock up so fast? I mean, besides the ammonia or nitrite spike concerns, what are you gonna do when you see a fish you REALLY like in future? Hahahaha

[lostboy_cal]

Actually 5-15ppm is still within the acceptable range, some say the threshold for nitrates in a FOWLR or soft corals and LPS reef tank is 20-25ppm. Mine usually hovers around 5-10ppm too, with 25% water change every 4 days.

Within a small tank, the conversion of nitrates to harmless nitrogen is slow, if not non existent, so water change is the only way to constantly dilute it, cos the fish eat and sh!t everyday right? If you change the water today, it will climb back up within the next few days, that's why nano tanks are very troublesome, high maintainence.

Wah why you stock up so fast? I mean, besides the ammonia or nitrite spike concerns, what are you gonna do when you see a fish you REALLY like in future? Hahahaha

Cool! If within 15ppm is okie then will change water 1 week once. So far everything is okie for ammonia and nitrite.. reading maintenance at 0 ppm..thanks GOD

I can't wait to see fishes in the tank.. i'm a bit "kan cheong" on this

If one day nitrite start to form, will remove the one by one fish into another small tank which I have to keep spare fish.

[Fuzzy]

Cool! If within 15ppm is okie then will change water 1 week once. So far everything is okie for ammonia and nitrite.. reading maintenance at 0 ppm..thanks GOD

I can't wait to see fishes in the tank.. i'm a bit "kan cheong" on this

If one day nitrite start to form, will remove the one by one fish into another small tank which I have to keep spare fish.

You want to go real slow with adding more livestock to your tank. Especially since you're not using live sand.

But bro, you are already close to or at the limit for the amount of fish that should be comfortably housed in an 8 Gallon.

What you might want to look into is adding more live rock into your tank, go for small pieces so you can squeeze many many in, to maximize your bio filtration. But make sure its already cleaned and cured before you add it in!

If you change your sand, you might trigger a new cycle and endanger your livestock, probably not wise to do this.

I have a better suggestion..

...

....

Buy a 24 Gallon tank and start cycling that with live sand and live rock, then transfer these guys into the bigger tank and keep this to use as a quarantine tank for new livestock

[lostboy_cal]

You want to go real slow with adding more livestock to your tank. Especially since you're not using live sand.

But bro, you are already close to or at the limit for the amount of fish that should be comfortably housed in an 8 Gallon.

What you might want to look into is adding more live rock into your tank, go for small pieces so you can squeeze many many in, to maximize your bio filtration. But make sure its already cleaned and cured before you add it in!

If you change your sand, you might trigger a new cycle and endanger your livestock, probably not wise to do this.

I have a better suggestion..

...

....

Buy a 24 Gallon tank and start cycling that with live sand and live rock, then transfer these guys into the bigger tank and keep this to use as a quarantine tank for new livestock

Bro... Adding live rock is a 2nd option to me since changing sand will trigger the cycle process..

But I like your suggestion.. A new 24 Gallon tank.... or bigger

Actually I can afford(space) a 3 feet tank just infront of my desk. I will remove the 2 chair (afterall no one is sitting) but need to know the prices for setting a proper 3 feet tank... Great can give me a prices range, understand it varies from different setup and brands on the equipment. Just a guide will do.

Cheers.

Cheers.

[Fuzzy]

Bro... Adding live rock is a 2nd option to me since changing sand will trigger the cycle process..

But I like your suggestion.. A new 24 Gallon tank.... or bigger

Actually I can afford(space) a 3 feet tank just infront of my desk. I will remove the 2 chair (afterall no one is sitting) but need to know the prices for setting a proper 3 feet tank... Great can give me a prices range, understand it varies from different setup and brands on the equipment. Just a guide will do.

Cheers.

Cheers.

Wow bro you got space!

Gogogo, there are a few tanks on sale at the moment in pasar malam, go look look see see. Tank, sump cabinet around $200?

Add live sand, live rock, lighting, skimmer and FOWLR good to go leow. If you don't mind 2nd hand I think you budget $500 can leow 2ft, 3ft budget about $600.