How to get rid of high nitrate

[Vinoth]

How about biorings? Is it also a nitrate factory?

[derf]

Hi..I am new to this forum and also quite new to fowlr with a 3x1.5x1.5 tank, abt 5 months now, using a uner gravel filter connected by a 1000 lit/hr puwer head to my 3.5 ft over head filter box, which has green mat, coral chips, bio balls, ceramic rings and charcoal. I hav abt 20 to 22 fishes and abt 4 to 5 small red crabs, 1 deco crab, 1 large star fish. also abt 8 kg LR, dsb abt 4 ",I hav had no fatalities over the last 2 over months, I change abt 10% water every 5 days or so, nh3 is abt 0.2, no2 is almost 0, no3 is abt 70 to 80. Yes I know I hav far too many fish inside, please give your comments. thanks

undergravel filter??

maybe some experts can give u n advise on tis.

[terryansimon]

the only reason why bioballs and such are not recommended for marine is because of nitrate buildups. sure, the ideal setting is that you want your filtration to be able to break down ammoniao to nitrite and nitrate to nitrate fast. but let your live rocks do that. never substitutde deep sea bed/plenum/live rocks for something else. unless you're using a berlin system.

[Tanggy]

I think you guys misunderstood me. Bio rings are like live rocks, they give bacteria a places to live. They cannot be overly efficient as they need armonia to live. Their number depends on the amount of armonia produced but the system. The more armonia, the more NO3 They become a nitrate factiry if decomposing matter like uneaten foon get stuck in them. (live rock will have the same problem if you have a dead spot an decompose matter get stuck). Decomposing material like dead fish produced armonia as they breaks down and increase the bio load and thus the NO3.

berling or wet dry only remove armonia and NO2, not no3. where as a DSB are used to removes NO3 as they are not suitable or does not have enough surface area for nitrifying bacteria to live, these live in live rock. Everyone who is using a skimmer and live rock is using a berlin setup to an extend. So what I am saying is bio balls are not perferred cos they requires more maintainence if prefilter is not fraquently changed.

No matter how good a DSB is, they cant function alone. Try a tank with only DSB withou a filter or live rock and you'll see high armonia, high NO2 but low NO3. In other words, you will achieve best results if combining both like what most reefers do. live rocks/ or trickle filter with skimmer (berlin) with a deep sand bed. Dont use wetdry trickle if you dont wanna do maintenence, just use live rock lor.

[terryansimon]

urh you do know how NO3 is converted to NO2 and back to N2 right? and that the bacteria needed is anaerobic right? so a bioball doesn't do that simply because it doesn't facilitate having an anaerobic environment.

dense liverocks, deep sea bed on the other hand, can do that. as the environment within the rock and the deep sea bed itself is anaerobic, anaerobic bacteria that reduce NO3 to N2 can survive in there. having bioballs however will defeat that purpose as bioballs need to be submerged. so relying on it as your first and only line of defence is suicidal.

I agree with Tanggy. (= more or less lah. just supplementing him/her/it.

no offence. my five cents worth. (=

[vincegoh]

get rid of ur coral chips n get a better skimmer. for a 5 ft tank, i seriously dun think a weipro is good enough.

Well, I intend to use 2 WEipo SA-2014 PS.

[vincegoh]

Aiyo... all the opinions flying. :)

The bio balls and coral chips provide a place for bacteria to grow like the Live ROcks. They are only a nitrate factory if dirt like uneaten food, fish poo etc get stuck in them. Thats why its use in a wet dry configuration. The dry part filter out the dirt and the wet part convert armonia into NO2 then NO3. All systems be it berlin (Live rock) or wet dry cannot remove NO3 os even if you have a ton of live rocks or a thousand dollar skimmer, the NO3 will not be removed. Can only be remove by water change, denitrator (DSB, plenum, denitrator etc) or chemically (seachem denitrate etc).

Thats why you need some form of denitrator to convert NO3 to nitrogen gas. Thats what a DSB does (plenum also). It provide denitrifiying bacteria a low (DSB) or zero (plenum) oxygen zone to grow and convert NO3 to nitrogen.

The common impression is a DSB work and wet/dry dont but in fact they should be used together to compliment each other. If done correctly can yeild great results. There more than one way to skin a cat. So long if it works!! Cheers!!

But putting bio balls in the overflow is very bad ideal as no prefilter, dirt will get track and become nitrate factory.

I have to correct that under no oxgen level, hydrogen sulfide HSO3 will be produce and that is detrimental and toxic for all marine life. To convert to the free nitrogen that we want, we need very low level of oxygen, not zero oxygen.

[terryansimon]

yes anaerobic =/= zero oxygen. it just means area of little oxygen. (=

[vincegoh]

Thanks for so many feedback.... wow...

I have 3 line of defence for filter wool defence

1st layer: before the water overflow into my bioballs, I do have filter wools to trap debris.

2nd layer: when the main tank water discharged into my sump, there is a layer of filter wool.

3rd layer: before the water exit into the last chamber (for pumping back to main tank and PS), there is another layer of filter wool with activated carbon.

I am interested to know how well denitrator works since my is a 180 gallon tank.

[MNCL]

Hi,

I believe our gurus here will be able to help.

However, u may wish to visit Beginning Fishkeeping to get a detailed information.

CHEERS!

[FuEl]

My sump only has sand. Nothing but sand. I hate wool.

[terryansimon]

then how you filter out the bigger chunks of debris?

[FuEl]

I don't need too. My tank never has any large pieces of debri. They'll all get broken down eventually into smaller particles.

Wool is as much of a nitrate factory as bio-balls and bio-rings.

[terryansimon]

hmm okay. mine's there to filter out huge gunk caught in the bags of sand. hahaha.

[Tanggy]

sorry my mistake bout the 0 o2. that why the output of denitrator needs to be oxygenated before putting back into tank. agreed

[garan]

wan,Dec 1 2003, 04:38 AM] for those with no space for refugium below right, i have a suggestion for u.. at the overflow compartment there, remove all the bioballs, its useless, need maintenance a lot. extend the piping to 1/2 to 3/4 of the tank height so there will always be much water in the overflow compartment. place a lot a lot of macroalgae there, as much as u can.

im very confident a bout this.most of the overflow compartments are as large as the hang on refugiums

hi, so if i remve all the BIO balls from the Chamber and replace with Microalgae, did i need to place a DSB into the chamber and convert it into a refugium, how about LR with algae attach, can it be use

so my sump had 2 area that contain coral chip, if really need to need to convert to refugium, how should i stay about it, it already pack with LS now. dont we need to cycle the DSB b4 put to use, pls enlight me, i am really need to refugium, as i alway used bios ball and coral chip. Seen like it really bad to had this in my tank.

[jsoon]

Ok...with the advice armed, I removed my bio-balls in my overflow as as well as the first chamber.

But after removing them when I turn back the pump, the overflow water into the overflow compartment is quite loud, (like waterfall sound). I have an arcylic plastic with small holes acting as a drip plate that allow water to seep down but not large object.

How do I reduce the noise ?

[terryansimon]

yours is overflow compartment to sump right?

if so, use a durso pipe.

[garan]

yours is overflow compartment to sump right?

if so, use a durso pipe.

sorry to ask, what is a durso pipe? how ti look like and where ccan i get ti, i think i should had the same problem after removing my bios ball from the overflow chamber.

[terryansimon]

yours is CONFIRM overflow box and not internal overflow system right? a durso. hmm. lemme see. try to post a picture on it. wait ah.

[terryansimon]

Durso Link

[roidan]

Well, I intend to use 2 WEipo SA-2014 PS.

wah..my idea ah..hehe

[garan]

hi, so if i remve all the BIO balls from the Chamber and replace with Microalgae, did i need to place a DSB into the chamber and convert it into a refugium, how about LR with algae attach, can it be use

so my sump had 2 area that contain coral chip, if really need to need to convert to refugium, how should i stay about it, it already pack with LS now. dont we need to cycle the DSB b4 put to use, pls enlight me, i am really need to refugium, as i alway used bios ball and coral chip. Seen like it really bad to had this in my tank.

hi, i really need some help on the above mention qoate,.can any experts help me to explain all this, cse i willbe doing this weekend.

1. did i need to get a used sand or new sand from LSH? if new, did i need to cycle or just wash will do? what the grade that recomm to used for DSB.

2. since i am setting the refugium at the overflow chamber, did i need to add DSB into the chamber. what the recomm depth for the DSB?

3. did i nedd to remove all LS from the tank before adding the DSB? after placing the dsb did i need to run the water against b4 i place back the LS?

4. after placing the microalgae, can i just used the MH light as lighting for the plant? light on at 8am, off at 7pm. (MH 150w de 20k), i also used another sets of dymax T5 blue. only on in the morning for an hour before my MH and on against at the evening for 1 hour after my MH off. work late, so to enjoy my coral b4 all go to rest.

really thanks for all the help.

Btw my tank spec 3*2*2

overflow 8*6inch. (is that enough to convert into refugium)

[alanyeo]

Back to basics folks! Use plants...or macroalgae for that matter. Place them in main display tank if you don't have surgeons or angels.

For my latest setup, I'm using lots of plants to stabilize NO3, hovering around 5ppm, Berlin-method and a little refugium lighted up only 7hrs daily.

Bio-balls and coral chips indeed has its pros and cons. Use them sparingly like I do. Bioballs if submerged in water tend to be a little beneficial than harmful compared to wet-dry air-water setup.

Forget about additives, tried many kinds of nitrate-remover in my experimental 5-footer, only AZNO3 seems to work a bit. However this stuff is pricy if you have a big tank, and someone did said to use it according to label (don't overuse, can be harmful to inhibitants).

[vincegoh]

wah..my idea ah..hehe

Your sump looks nicely set up? Where did u get the switch,i.e. the control knob for your pipings?

Also, U r using SA2014 right? What PH are u using? Thanks.