Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[Creetin]

day 25 update... abit more tweaking and i be done

[johntanjm]

Just want to add, I've experienced it myself. population of pods with an algae screen is just ridiculous. they're everywhere! big ones and small ones.

[SantaMonica]

Update: Ultra Low Phosphate

Many people, after having great success with their scrubbers, have brought their phosphate down so low that their test kits can't measure it. And the nuisance algae has been mostly cleared out of the display. However, these people start seeing a fuzzy detritus-looking accumulation on some parts of the rocks, and sometimes on the sand. They clean it off, but it comes right back. What is it?

What they are seeing is phosphate coming out of the rocks(!). This is a great thing to happen. It requires two situations: (1) You previously had high levels of phosphate in your water (higher than .1) for several weeks or more, and (2) You now have very low levels of phosphate in your water. It's very counter-intuitive, and it will make you think that things are going wrong, especially since this type of algae growth looks just like "detritus" (but it's not.) Things are actually going very right, and here is why:

Phosphate is like water: It flows from higher levels to lower levels. For example, if you have two aquariums connected with a pipe at the bottom, the water levels would be the same in each tank. But if you poured extra water into one tank, it's level would rise for a second, then the water would flow into the other aquarium until the levels were equal again (although both levels would now be higher). Now, if you removed some water from one of the aquariums, it's level would drop for a second, then the water from the other aquarium would flow into it until they both evened out again (although both levels would now be lower). If you kept removing water from just one of the aquariums, the levels of both aquariums would keep falling, until they both reached the bottom. This is exactly how phosphate works.

Situation (1): In the previous weeks or months, when your phosphate levels in your water were high, the phosphate was flowing from the water INTO the rocks and sand and anything else that is made up of calcium carbonate, such as coral skeletons and clam shells. The phosphate did this because it's level in the water was "higher" than the phosphate in the rocks and sand. This part of the process is invisible, since Inorganic Phosphate is invisible. You don't see it going into the rocks and sand, but your rocks and sand are indeed being "loaded up". And if your phosphate in your water goes up even higher (say, .5), then even more phosphate goes into your rocks and sand, until it evens out again. You probably also see nuisance algae on your glass and other non-rock surfaces, because there is enough phosphate in the WATER to feed the algae anyhwere it's at. And that's the important point to remember: There is enough phosphate in the WATER to feed the algae ANYWHERE.

Situation (2): Now, you've been running your scrubber (or any phosphate remover) for a while, and your phosphate in the WATER has been testing "zero" on your hobby test kit. Nuisance algae has been reduced or eliminated on your glass and everywhere else. This is because there is not enough phosphate in the WATER to feed the nuisance algae. However, since the phosphate in the water is now very low, guess where it's still high? IN THE ROCKS! So, phosphate starts flowing FROM the rocks and sand, back INTO the water. And as long as your scrubber keeps the phosphate low in the WATER, the phosphate will keep flowing out of the rocks until it is at the same level as the water. You can visualize the phosphate as heat coming off of a hot brick; you can't see it, but it's flowing out of the brick. Anyways, since you now have all this phosphate coming out of the rocks and sand, guess where algae starts to grow? ON THE ROCKS AND SAND!

There is a striking differece between the algae in Situation 1 and 2, however; in (1) the algae is on everything: Glass, rocks, sand, pipes, thermometers, pumps, etc., and the algae is a typical algae that you normally get in your display. But in (2), the algae is dark, short and fuzzy, just like detritus, and it's only growing on the rocks and sand. And if you look closely at the rocks, it only growing on certain PARTS of the rocks (usuallly narrow parts that stick out), and not growing on the rocks right next to it. This is because certain areas of the rock have absorbed more phosphate than others, and thus are releasing more phosphate into the water. Glass, plastic, etc, don't absorb phosphate, so thats' why there is no algae growing on them now, since they are not releasing phosphate back into the water. So the algae now grows only where it can find enough phosphate, and for now, this is only on certain parts of the rock and sand where enough phosphate is flowing back into the water.

But just like the aquarium example above, the levels of phosphate in the rocks and water will eventually even out, and the flowing will stop. When this happens, the nuisance algae will disappear from the rocks, never to return again (unless of course your phosphate levels rise again for some reason.) The time for this to happen is weeks to months, depending upon how much phosphate is stored in the rocks. So don't give up!

[Creetin]

day 27... i have red algae on my screen... perhaps due to high nutrients or whatever but i kinda like it really... anyhow i have red turf algae problem so perhaps its natural to have some of these stuff..

[SantaMonica]

It's progresssing nicely. Clean all that off, including spraying through the holes, and the next week should be a solid growth.

[johntanjm]

try turning off your skimmer and FR. sure to boost growth on the screen

[SantaMonica]

Update: Grow Bulbs

The best bulbs to grow algae are "grow bulbs", which are pink in color. Sometimes these bulbs are called "plant grow" bulbs. But don't confuse these bulbs with "plant bulbs" which are blue or green. Blue bulbs have a different purpose, and green bulbs are just to make plants look nice. It's the pink bulbs that give the algae the type of light that it grows best with. The light won't seem as bright as a white bulb, however, but it works much better. You can find grow bulbs at any garden store, home improvement store, hydroponics store, or online. Each bulb should be at least 23 watts.

[Vlamingi_cont]

Update: Grow Bulbs

The best bulbs to grow algae are "grow bulbs", which are pink in color. Sometimes these bulbs are called "plant grow" bulbs. But don't confuse these bulbs with "plant bulbs" which are blue or green. Blue bulbs have a different purpose, and green bulbs are just to make plants look nice. It's the pink bulbs that give the algae the type of light that it grows best with. The light won't seem as bright as a white bulb, however, but it works much better. You can find grow bulbs at any garden store, home improvement store, hydroponics store, or online. Each bulb should be at least 23 watts.

Is this kinda system the same as the one in the ultimate reef aquariums by michael s paletta the on that is using Algal Turf scrubber??

[SantaMonica]

Haven't see that one.

[Vlamingi_cont]

Haven't see that one.

Oh.. but that one was in the tank with algae in the "box"...

[magix88]

Due to work commitment my algea filter is not up yet. However my mind has been thinking of a possible flaw/problem which I believe I will encounter with my design and also similiar with many of the fellow reefers if we use the same concept.

I am deploying a PVC tube to "auto suck" the water out of the tank to the algea filter below my main tank. My main concern is what happen if my return pump in my algae pail fail or when there is a power trip? The flaw of this idea is that water will continue to flow out of the tank into the algea filter and with the return pump spoilt/no power, your room will very soon see a tsunami mess of water overflowing.

Finally an idea came into my mind to counter this problem. Simply drill a keyhole on the pipe 1.5" BELOW the water surface of the tank. I've attached a PDF drawing of the concept.

I am yet to try this out but I believe this method will work. Any engineers out here can comment on this design?

idea_for_tank.pdf

[SantaMonica]

No, unfortunately you can't set it up with a siphon. Instead, it needs to be an overflow. So have the tank drilled so that you can overflow into the scrubber. Don't rely on the hole in the siphon. It will clog. Everytime.

[magix88]

How about having 2 holes? haha..

[magix88]

My tank is place on a table where I cannot drill on the tank. The tank is sitting on my dad's antique table. Probably I will have to make sure the hole is not clog every now and then

[SantaMonica]

Well if you do it:

1. Make sure that the siphon tube does not go far into the tank. This way WHEN the pump stops, your scrubber bucket will not overflow.

2. Use a pump that can run dry. This way, WHEN the pump is pumping more than is siphoning, it will not burn up.

3. Use ball valves, not gate valves. This will give you precise control to set the flow just right. The water level in the scrubber will be very touchy, and will rise and fall throughout the day.

[magix88]

Ok! Will use these as the guidelines when I DIY the siphon. Just inspected my "gate valve". Its a Ball Valve.

Hope I can get everything up by end of next week

[SantaMonica]

Whoops, I made a mistake. I meant, use a gate valve, not a ball valve. Sorry.

[johntanjm]

magix if the diagram depicts exactly what you're going to build, you're gonna run into big problems with microbubbles forming. Where the end of the screen hits the water surface, you're gonna get lots of bubbles and your return pump is going to suck it all up into the display tank.

From my bad experience bubble issue, I realized one thing that not many other people have that problem as bad as mine and that's also because I'm plumbing the algae screen at ~5000-7000L/H. But at the same time, I also attribute the high turbulent flow on my screens as one of the factors for lush algae growth.

[Creetin]

magix if the diagram depicts exactly what you're going to build, you're gonna run into big problems with microbubbles forming. Where the end of the screen hits the water surface, you're gonna get lots of bubbles and your return pump is going to suck it all up into the display tank.

From my bad experience bubble issue, I realized one thing that not many other people have that problem as bad as mine and that's also because I'm plumbing the algae screen at ~5000-7000L/H. But at the same time, I also attribute the high turbulent flow on my screens as one of the factors for lush algae growth.

agree about the microbubbles forming which really requires a good sump to get rid of before returning the water to the main tank...

few concerns here

1. once the electricity cuts, i believe the siphon will break and it will not resume when e power comes back on.

2. having a pump direct into the chiller from the scrubber might not be a good idea cos there might be some fouling from detritus? i know woolless is good but u have to maintain e chiller then

i feel its best to just get a sump and ibox ... proper setup...

[Creetin]

day 33 update... i am getting more reds now

[yellowtanker]

Hi SM,

Just want to express my thanks to you for yr self-less dedication in spreading the importance and advantages of this simple and effective tool (with detailed guidance and justifications), plus yr unwavering assistance to all the reefer bros in the community. YOU DESERVE AN HONORARY REEFING AWARD FOR THIS! ABSOLUTELY!!! I am sure many of the reefer bros who have read yr thread would agree full-heartedly with me.

I chanced upon yr thread and must say that it is the single most important discovery i have made in reefing. I hv just recently, about 2mths ago reset my tank and last week, my nice bro LaW helped me set up the DIY scrubber using an aquabee pump and it is already starting to show its effectiveness. 6hrs ago, two fellow reefer bros, Johntanjm and Creetin also dropped by my place to give me some pointers..unfortunately bro Iceman cudn't make it and bro Law, please get well soon from yr flu.... to all of you, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Anyway, thanks again to all and especially SM for the invaluable inputs you have given and if u are ever in Singapore, please do pm me and let me know and i would love to organize a lunch or dinner session with many of the "singapore reefing scrubber club" bros listed above .... hehe.

Regards,

[SantaMonica]

Wow thanks so much for that. I hope it does as well for your tanks as it has for the others!

[SantaMonica]

Update: Cross-cuts

Making cross-cuts in the slot is now recommended for all pipes. The biggest advantage of cross-cuts is that when algae grows up into the slot, a cross-cut will still allow water to flow out on top of the algae. Cross-cuts do require more flow, so if your pump/pipe combination is having trouble delivering the recommended 35 gph per inch of slot (53 lph/cm), then you might want to get more flow first. Start with one cross-cut every inch (2.5cm), and later try one every .5 inch (1.25cm):

[Creetin]

Hi SM,

Just want to express my thanks to you for yr self-less dedication in spreading the importance and advantages of this simple and effective tool (with detailed guidance and justifications), plus yr unwavering assistance to all the reefer bros in the community. YOU DESERVE AN HONORARY REEFING AWARD FOR THIS! ABSOLUTELY!!! I am sure many of the reefer bros who have read yr thread would agree full-heartedly with me.

I chanced upon yr thread and must say that it is the single most important discovery i have made in reefing. I hv just recently, about 2mths ago reset my tank and last week, my nice bro LaW helped me set up the DIY scrubber using an aquabee pump and it is already starting to show its effectiveness. 6hrs ago, two fellow reefer bros, Johntanjm and Creetin also dropped by my place to give me some pointers..unfortunately bro Iceman cudn't make it and bro Law, please get well soon from yr flu.... to all of you, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Anyway, thanks again to all and especially SM for the invaluable inputs you have given and if u are ever in Singapore, please do pm me and let me know and i would love to organize a lunch or dinner session with many of the "singapore reefing scrubber club" bros listed above .... hehe.

Regards,

I second that! This contribution from SM alone is worthy of an award!!!! Never could I imagine such a simple idea could work so beautifully and with minimal cost...

Thanks for rejuvenating the love of reefing! For many, algae problems alone are enough to get our tanks and us down.

[jyoon]

I "third" to yellow_tanker's compliments for SM. I love to read these postings as well the other posting by SM on the "continous feeding".

Been wanted to build a Algea Scrubber for my tank and still in progress. Once done , will post to add on to this thread.