Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[ReDDeviLs]

But can chaeto remove the amount of NO3 and PO4 as much and as fast as a scrubber? And how much chaeto is needed to do the job? l am not sure about that though. And the part on "the more high tech the better", this is really subjective IMO. Expensive high tech gadgets are good to have, but they are not a must to have. And for scrubber, the cost of DIY pipe and screen are really marginal.

Hi bro, i cannot answer your question on who is much faster. It will not have a fair comparison in anyway.

e.g I have a 1ftcube tank filled with water. i can have my chaeto filled up in there and absorb po4,no3. but how big a scrubber can i fit in there?

the scrubber may work much better much more efficient. However, dont forgot u need to clean it often. if thats the case like i said, doing WC is more practical.

the price is much more marginal. think about it.

As for the high tech the better, u are right. Its subjective, similar to the scrubber.

[kanegan]

Hi bro SM,

Should I be cleaning this?

Happy New Year and many cheers to you!

[leochngyh]

I have been running skimmer (AquaC EV120) before I switch to only TAF for a year plus. Tried running only TAF since Nov 2008 until last week (total 408days) and I found that my tank has lots of tube worms growing on the sandbed, LR and even on the glass. However, just added a Deltec APF600 last week to run together with my TAF.

IMO, TAF operates differently with skimmer, its all depends on what your want:

Skimmer – Design to remove the DOC from the tank water before it degrade to NO3 and PO4 which TAF is unable to remove.

TAF – The algae grow naturally will absorb the NO3 and PO4 in the tank water but the water will remain full of DOC (or dirt).

TAF:

Adv: Preserve food for coral and all micro organisms in the tank.

Adv: Absorb NO3 and PO4 from tank water and export when cleaning.

Adv: Cheap and easy to setup.

Disadv: Will left lots of dirt in the tank.

Disadv: Need to clean the algae periodically, if not the algae die off will release the NO3 and PO4 back to tank

Skimmer:

Adv: Provide more surface for water and air surface thus tank water is more oxygen rich.

Adv: Remove DOC and dirt from tank. Hence tank is cleaner than only TAF.

Adv: Cleaning is easier than TAF.

Disadv: Unable to remove NO3 and PO4 from tank.

Disadv: The initial investment will be high to have an efficient skimmer.

From what I have observed:

Both TAF and skimmer will increase the temp in tank. TAF is from the light and Skimmer from pump

Both need periodic cleaning.

Both also consuming almost equal amount of power. Light and Pump.

As I mentioned, currently I am using both TAF and Skimmer with running independently. TAF on18hr/off6hrs and skimmer is 24hrs. Never test the NO3 yet but I did test the NO3 while I am only running TAF with salifert testkit. My NO3 can achieve < 5ppm without skimmer and WC for > 6 months.

[SantaMonica]

Display lighting does not affect the scrubber.

Here is a before and after:

http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewto...p?f=7&t=431

[bobiegoh]

I have been running skimmer (AquaC EV120) before I switch to only TAF for a year plus. Tried running only TAF since Nov 2008 until last week (total 408days) and I found that my tank has lots of tube worms growing on the sandbed, LR and even on the glass. However, just added a Deltec APF600 last week to run together with my TAF.

IMO, TAF operates differently with skimmer, its all depends on what your want:

Skimmer – Design to remove the DOC from the tank water before it degrade to NO3 and PO4 which TAF is unable to remove.

TAF – The algae grow naturally will absorb the NO3 and PO4 in the tank water but the water will remain full of DOC (or dirt).

TAF:

Adv: Preserve food for coral and all micro organisms in the tank.

Adv: Absorb NO3 and PO4 from tank water and export when cleaning.

Adv: Cheap and easy to setup.

Disadv: Will left lots of dirt in the tank.

Disadv: Need to clean the algae periodically, if not the algae die off will release the NO3 and PO4 back to tank

Skimmer:

Adv: Provide more surface for water and air surface thus tank water is more oxygen rich.

Adv: Remove DOC and dirt from tank. Hence tank is cleaner than only TAF.

Adv: Cleaning is easier than TAF.

Disadv: Unable to remove NO3 and PO4 from tank.

Disadv: The initial investment will be high to have an efficient skimmer.

From what I have observed:

Both TAF and skimmer will increase the temp in tank. TAF is from the light and Skimmer from pump

Both need periodic cleaning.

Both also consuming almost equal amount of power. Light and Pump.

As I mentioned, currently I am using both TAF and Skimmer with running independently. TAF on18hr/off6hrs and skimmer is 24hrs. Never test the NO3 yet but I did test the NO3 while I am only running TAF with salifert testkit. My NO3 can achieve < 5ppm without skimmer and WC for > 6 months.

Yo bro, finally, selamat datang ke sgReef. GB.

[ReDDeviLs]

I have been running skimmer (AquaC EV120) before I switch to only TAF for a year plus. Tried running only TAF since Nov 2008 until last week (total 408days) and I found that my tank has lots of tube worms growing on the sandbed, LR and even on the glass. However, just added a Deltec APF600 last week to run together with my TAF.

IMO, TAF operates differently with skimmer, its all depends on what your want:

Skimmer – Design to remove the DOC from the tank water before it degrade to NO3 and PO4 which TAF is unable to remove.

TAF – The algae grow naturally will absorb the NO3 and PO4 in the tank water but the water will remain full of DOC (or dirt).

TAF:

Adv: Preserve food for coral and all micro organisms in the tank.

Adv: Absorb NO3 and PO4 from tank water and export when cleaning.

Adv: Cheap and easy to setup.

Disadv: Will left lots of dirt in the tank.

Disadv: Need to clean the algae periodically, if not the algae die off will release the NO3 and PO4 back to tank

Skimmer:

Adv: Provide more surface for water and air surface thus tank water is more oxygen rich.

Adv: Remove DOC and dirt from tank. Hence tank is cleaner than only TAF.

Adv: Cleaning is easier than TAF.

Disadv: Unable to remove NO3 and PO4 from tank.

Disadv: The initial investment will be high to have an efficient skimmer.

From what I have observed:

Both TAF and skimmer will increase the temp in tank. TAF is from the light and Skimmer from pump

Both need periodic cleaning.

Both also consuming almost equal amount of power. Light and Pump.

As I mentioned, currently I am using both TAF and Skimmer with running independently. TAF on18hr/off6hrs and skimmer is 24hrs. Never test the NO3 yet but I did test the NO3 while I am only running TAF with salifert testkit. My NO3 can achieve < 5ppm without skimmer and WC for > 6 months.

cant agree more on this.

[SantaMonica]

Skimmer - Design to remove the DOC from the tank water before it degrade to NO3 and PO4 which TAF is unable to remove.

First, skimmers do not remove much DOC; see research below. Second, what do you think DOC is? It's food. Why do you want to remove food? What do you think is feeding all the tubeworms? And tubeworms are just the obvious results; what you are not noticing is how much more your corals will grow with all that food. Some corals (like NPS) will not grow at all without that food. So not only do scrubbers not remove DOC, they actually add a bit of DOC, which is what you want if you are trying to grow corals.

Adv: [skimmers] Provide more surface for water and air surface thus tank water is more oxygen rich.

Actually, scrubbers provide more oxygen, because (1) more surface area of the water is contacting the air, and (2) photosynthesis of the algae adds oxygen directly. Most scrubber tanks are super-saturated with oxygen; most skimmer-only tanks are not.

Adv: [skimmers] Remove DOC and dirt from tank. Hence tank is cleaner than only TAF.

The only thing skimmers remove a lot of is particles of food. Skimmers do not remove much DOC (see research below). If you think that "cleaner" is less food, then stop feeding your tank. It will be super "clean".

Both TAF and skimmer will increase the temp in tank. TAF is from the light and Skimmer from pump

If you want warmer water, great. If not, just put a fan on the scrubber, and the tank will cool down. Or use the overflow to feed the scrubber, so your pump is not in the water. The light should not heat the water.

Skimmer DOC research, from 2009:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

"In addition to some dissolved organics, small particulates and microbes (bacterioplankton, phytoplankton) can be removed at the air/water interface of the [skimmer] bubble as well (Suzuki, 2008). The skimming process does not remove atoms/molecules that are strictly polar and readily dissolve in water, such as some organics, salts, inorganic phosphate, carbonate, etc.

"The skimmer pulls out all of the TOC that it is going to remove by the 50-minute mark. Beyond that time point, nothing much is happening and the TOC level doesn't change much.

"Thus, all skimmers tested remove around 20 - 30% of the TOC in the aquarium water, and that's it; 70 - 80% of the measurable TOC is left behind unperturbed by the skimming process. It may be possible to develop a rationalization for this unexpected behavior by referring back to Fig. 1. Perhaps only 20 - 30% of the organic species in the aquarium water meet the hydrophobic requirements for bubble capture, whereas the remaining 70-80%, for whatever reason, don't."

And here are some interesting 2008 technical points:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

"Greater than 97% of the organic matter in the oceans is in the form of DOC"

"The majority of the DOC in the oceans is consumed over a time span on the order of hours-to-weeks."

"The generally accepted value of deep ocean TOC (DOC in this instance) ranges from 0.45 - 0.60 ppm, a number that appears to be insensitive to collection location. On reefs, however, the DOC (and TOC) value is considerably higher. Even with this point noted, the values of DOC on reefs from the South Pacific to Japan to the Caribbean to the Red Sea are remarkably consistent in their range: 0.7 - 1.6 ppm"

"Bacteria are a critical component in the food web of the reef, as they occupy the role of 'middle man' in the transfer of energy from the source (sunlight) to the consumers on the reef"

"sponges are some of the most prolific repositories of marine bacteria. In fact, some sponges have been studied as effective bioremediation agents in marine aquaculture as a consequence of their exceptional ability to absorb TOC"

"Where does the DOC go ... studies suggest that it is rapidly consumed by bacteria that live in and on the coral itself and not by bacteria present in the water column. Shutting down these endogenous bacteria by antibiotic treatment abolished DOC uptake."

"In total, these data unequivocally demonstrate that the [skimmer] is not required to deplete the aquarium water of TOC. Apparently, naturally biological processes are sufficient in and of themselves to return the post-feeding TOC levels to their pre-feeding values after about 4 hrs or so ... Clearly the skimmer is doing something, given the copious residue accumulated in the collection cup at the end of the week. Perhaps, however, the residue removed by the skimmer is only a rather small, even inconsequential, portion of the entire TOC load that develops in the aquarium water over the course of a week."

[stevenkoh08]

Hi SM

I've try out this before but give up as the light start to rust second all my sump glass got algea glow, so as for now i wanna make a come back for this again.

1st question can algea glow with LED light which is warm white 9 x 1watt each side

2nd question if LED can't really support what is the best watt bulb to use can a PL support?

[ReDDeviLs]

you keep mentioning that skimmer is there to remove food.

so what happen if you got excessive food?

infact, the scrubber is removing excessive food in long run too. but instead of use investing a skimmer to skim out food directly, we feed the food to the algae on the scrubber that requires frequent cleaning which also mean we are finding more work to do for yourself.

please do remember that a reef tank needs lighting and when your scrubber has algae growing, your reeftank also have algaes growing there.

you mention about sponges growing that will also benift the reef tank, so in long run,1 day you will have nothing but full of sponges in your tank. not corals.

actually, this is very straight forward question.. why do we need scrubber/skimmer? bcos we feed and most of the time,we feed the algae more then the corals/fishes.

its just like why r we taking anti-oxident? why are products with anti-oxidant mentioned above sells better? because we take excessive chemical/food which is unhealthy if too much is consumed and may cause sick or worst,fatal illness.

same thing here,if u r going to leave too much food in your tank.. then u need a skimmer to remove the excess 1 food in the tank,or your system will fall sick, and may result in tank crash. that is why there is alot of tank that crash after a long period of time.

[SantaMonica]

so what happen if you got excessive food?

You can't feed corals too much. A 100g coral tank can eat 1 pound of food every day. The limitation is not the protein (food), it's the removal of the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what your test kits measure. If you are getting problems from feeding too much, then just.......... feed less.

infact, the scrubber is removing excessive food in long run too.

No, a scrubber does not remove any food (protein) at all. All the food (protein) is left in the water for corals and small fish to eat. If there is so much food that big pieces fall to the bottom of the display and rot for days, then this is a different problem (feed less; get clean up crew; get flow across the bottom). If you still cannot stop the food pieces from rotting on the bottom, then...... feed less.

but instead of use investing a skimmer to skim out food directly, we feed the food to the algae on the scrubber that requires frequent cleaning which also mean we are finding more work to do for yourself.

No, this is not how it works at all. You do not "feed" a scrubber. A scrubber does not want ANY of the food you put in the tank. It doesn't touch ANY of it. It lets ALL the food go to the corals and fish. If the food is small particles that look like dust, the corals will eat it all within an hour. But if it's big pieces that fall to the bottom and sit there and rot for days, then you are feeding too much, and the pieces are too big. If you are getting too much algae on your screen for you to deal with, then..... feed less.

please do remember that a reef tank needs lighting and when your scrubber has algae growing, your reeftank also have algaes growing there.

No no no... A scrubber will always over-power the lighting in the display. The whole purpose of a scrubber is to put lights VERY NEAR the algae screen, so that the algae on the screen gets MUCH more light than anything in the display. This way, if algae is going to grow anywere, it grows in the scrubber FIRST, so you can remove it, BEFORE it starts growing in the display.

you mention about sponges growing that will also benift the reef tank, so in long run,1 day you will have nothing but full of sponges in your tank. not corals.

No no no... not true at all. Not even similar, and it never ever happens that way. Sponges grow slow, and require more food particles that almost any coral. If you have sponges growing, then your corals will have grown MUCH MUCH more first. It's always the corals that over-grow the sponges, which is why some people create cryptic sumps to grow sponges, so that no corals can cover them. Most people have never grown sponges before, because their skimmers remove all the food particles in the water that sponges need.

why do we need scrubber/skimmer? bcos we feed and most of the time,we feed the algae more then the corals/fishes.

Again, not true at all. Not even a litte. You cannot "feed" algae by putting food in the tank. If you really want to "feed" algae, you would have to feed Potassium Nitrate, or Potassium Phosphate, or even just pure ammonia. All would probably kill the corals and fish, but yes, you would be feeding the algae. Algae's favorite food is AMMONIA. I don't think you are feeding ammonia to your tank.

if u r going to leave too much food in your tank.. then u need a skimmer to remove the excess 1 food in the tank,or your system will fall sick, and may result in tank crash. that is why there is alot of tank that crash after a long period of time.

Completely incorrect. First, if a large fish dies, it creates ammonia, which a scrubber will remove, but a skimmer WILL NOT. Second, WHY would you be feeding your tank too much, if you KNOW you are doing it? Tanks with scrubbers do NOT crash because of "not removing food". Matter of fact, IF you did feed a scrubber tank "too much", the scrubber would grow more, to remove the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what causes a tank to "crash". A skimmer, however, does NOT remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate (or ammonia, or metals), and thus lets these things BUILD UP in the tank, thus allowing it to crash. Scrubber tanks do not crash from nutrients, because there in NO BUILD UP of Inorganic Nitrate or Inorganic Phosphate or copper, like there is with skimmer tanks. The tanks that crash are SKIMMER tanks, not SCRUBBER tanks.

If someone wants to use a skimmer to remove food, then they should be allowed to do it. But they at least need to be told what skimmers and scrubbers actually do, in order to make the correct decisions.

[qwertman321]

hi SM, my srubber has been running for close to 2 weeks without any cleaning but there are only some brown algae there , i think it is call diatom, And there is NOT A SIGN OF ANY GREEN ALGAE on my screen heres a pic of my screen nearest to the light.

[Jameshong]

Hi SantaMonica,

May I know whether 10x10" net screen sufficient as a scrubber for 60g tank ? This is the max I have due to limited space .

btw, how many layer do I need ?

[Eniram]

Hi SM,

May I know whether 10x10" net screen sufficient as a scrubber for 60g tank ? This is the max I have due to limited space .

btw, how many layer do I need ?

10x10 is more then enough, its the WIDTH that makes the scrubber. Refer to SM 1st post and you see his calculation on the size of your scrubber. 1 layer of rough material is enough. For me i used two sheets as the 1st sheet i used as a support and the other finer mesh sheet i used it to grow my algae.

[SantaMonica]

Liters... what is that material... looks like steel. Take another pic with your finger on the screen. And a pic of the flow, and of the light.

James... 10 X 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal tank, if the screen is lit on both sides. If lit on one side, is good for 50 gal. 2 layers of rough plastic canvas is best, but needs a bit more flow than one.

[qwertman321]

Liters... what is that material... looks like steel. Take another pic with your finger on the screen. And a pic of the flow, and of the light.

James... 10 X 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal tank, if the screen is lit on both sides. If lit on one side, is good for 50 gal. 2 layers of rough plastic canvas is best, but needs a bit more flow than one.

the material i m using is called PVC mesh and i did rough it up by using sand paper.

my screen is 16 inch x 14 inch and my tank is only 24g , what the reconmended size for my tank? i could not have a big flow a many bubbles will be in my tank, any way to prevent it?

[SantaMonica]

Ok, let's rebuild. Your current setup will not do anything.

Replace that mesh with plastic canvas from a crafts or sewing store. Rough it up. No solid backing is needed.

Reduce the size down to about 5 wide X 10 tall = 50 square inches, which is 2X your gal. 2X is needed because it is only lit up on one side. Then, put a 23W CFL 3000K floodlight on it, with a clip-on socket, and point it to the middle of the screen. 5" wide will need about 175 gal/hr, which is not that much, and won't make many bubble.

Try this first, and then see how many bubbles there are. They can easily be removed.

[qwertman321]

Ok, let's rebuild. Your current setup will not do anything.

Replace that mesh with plastic canvas from a crafts or sewing store. Rough it up. No solid backing is needed.

Reduce the size down to about 5 wide X 10 tall = 50 square inches, which is 2X your gal. 2X is needed because it is only lit up on one side. Then, put a 23W CFL 3000K floodlight on it, with a clip-on socket, and point it to the middle of the screen. 5" wide will need about 175 gal/hr, which is not that much, and won't make many bubble.

Try this first, and then see how many bubbles there are. They can easily be removed.

i m not using a skimmer and i have 2 clip on light so i m able to shine on both sides.

[ReDDeviLs]

You can't feed corals too much. A 100g coral tank can eat 1 pound of food every day. The limitation is not the protein (food), it's the removal of the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what your test kits measure. If you are getting problems from feeding too much, then just.......... feed less.

first of all, your assumption on 100g coral tank can eat 1 pound of food everyday is definately not accurate. many of us know that we are feeding too much that is why we have algae prob. there is many reasons why we overfeed and why we cannot stop overfeeding. if we can feed less. we do not need a scrubber anymore.

No, a scrubber does not remove any food (protein) at all. All the food (protein) is left in the water for corals and small fish to eat. If there is so much food that big pieces fall to the bottom of the display and rot for days, then this is a different problem (feed less; get clean up crew; get flow across the bottom). If you still cannot stop the food pieces from rotting on the bottom, then...... feed less.

the way you explain is only on assumption. please do remember that each and every reef tank have different kind of fishes and corals. some are fast and some are v slow in action. you may always feed the right amount for corals and small fish to eat. but among the smallfishes, the slower ones dont get to eat.

No, this is not how it works at all. You do not "feed" a scrubber. A scrubber does not want ANY of the food you put in the tank. It doesn't touch ANY of it. It lets ALL the food go to the corals and fish. If the food is small particles that look like dust, the corals will eat it all within an hour. But if it's big pieces that fall to the bottom and sit there and rot for days, then you are feeding too much, and the pieces are too big. If you are getting too much algae on your screen for you to deal with, then..... feed less.

please explain how you assume that the small particles that you mention, the food, gets eaten by the coral within AN HOUR. how sure are you that the food can get to the coral and be consume before it pollutes the tank? on the feed less, please refer to the answer above.

No no no... A scrubber will always over-power the lighting in the display. The whole purpose of a scrubber is to put lights VERY NEAR the algae screen, so that the algae on the screen gets MUCH more light than anything in the display. This way, if algae is going to grow anywere, it grows in the scrubber FIRST, so you can remove it, BEFORE it starts growing in the display.

the algae on the screen gets MUCH more light, that still means the portion of the reef that is nearest to the lighting will still be able to get algae? u mention that the algae grows on the scrubber "First", does that mean that the algae will ONLY grow on the scrubber until when the scrubber is FULL or ALMOST full before the algae chooses to move to grow in the display tank? please clarify.

No no no... not true at all. Not even similar, and it never ever happens that way. Sponges grow slow, and require more food particles that almost any coral. If you have sponges growing, then your corals will have grown MUCH MUCH more first. It's always the corals that over-grow the sponges, which is why some people create cryptic sumps to grow sponges, so that no corals can cover them. Most people have never grown sponges before, because their skimmers remove all the food particles in the water that sponges need.

you maybe right on the sponges growth and skimmer removing the food. however, please remember that not 100% of the water in ur display goes through the skimmer and how much food will the skimmer be able to skim out before the sponges get to consume them? we are assuming the skimmer is in the display tank and not even taking about skimmer being in the sump which still got to work on the turnover rate.

Again, not true at all. Not even a litte. You cannot "feed" algae by putting food in the tank. If you really want to "feed" algae, you would have to feed Potassium Nitrate, or Potassium Phosphate, or even just pure ammonia. All would probably kill the corals and fish, but yes, you would be feeding the algae. Algae's favorite food is AMMONIA. I don't think you are feeding ammonia to your tank.

No one will feed ammmonia to a tank. No 1 can be 100% or even 90% sure that there will not be die offs in the tank. when there is die offs. they will be rotting and resulting in ammonia. that is where your algae that feeds on your ammonia food. the ammonia spike maybe too little to notice and do any harm. but tat doesnt mean your algae will not feed on it.

Completely incorrect. First, if a large fish dies, it creates ammonia, which a scrubber will remove, but a skimmer WILL NOT. Second, WHY would you be feeding your tank too much, if you KNOW you are doing it? Tanks with scrubbers do NOT crash because of "not removing food". Matter of fact, IF you did feed a scrubber tank "too much", the scrubber would grow more, to remove the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which is what causes a tank to "crash". A skimmer, however, does NOT remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate (or ammonia, or metals), and thus lets these things BUILD UP in the tank, thus allowing it to crash. Scrubber tanks do not crash from nutrients, because there in NO BUILD UP of Inorganic Nitrate or Inorganic Phosphate or copper, like there is with skimmer tanks. The tanks that crash are SKIMMER tanks, not SCRUBBER tanks.

the reason of overfeeding has been mentioned. our society here have alot of overfeeding problem which is not avoidable.

what the skimmer removes is a stage before what the scrubber can remove. if the skimmer can remove things even before been broken down to what a scrubber can remove due to overfeed, than a scrubber is only a backup tool. there is too much tanks with skimmers and not much tank with scrubber ALONE. so by mentioning that only skimmer tanks crash is a very unfair statement.

can i ask what happens if i have a scrubber that is full of algae and i do not trim or clean it for long?

If someone wants to use a skimmer to remove food, then they should be allowed to do it. But they at least need to be told what skimmers and scrubbers actually do, in order to make the correct decisions.

the reason for using a skimmer to remove food is that we are not sure at times are we really over feeding or not. if we are, then please skim out the excessive that we will not want to be in the tank. if your claims that using a scrubber is better because the extra food from feeding the fishes will then be eaten by the corals is not very acceptable if its base on your assumption earlier.

Thanks.

[SantaMonica]

please explain how you assume that the small particles that you mention, the food, gets eaten by the coral within AN HOUR. how sure are you that the food can get to the coral and be consume before it pollutes the tank? on the feed less, please refer to the answer above.

If you feed coral food, like blended oysters (which is just a green liquid), the water is cloudy with food for only a few minutes. If you feed a gigantic amount that makes the water so cloudy that you can't see your corals, it clears up in an hour. This is with no filters at all in the tank, only a scrubber. The corals are the only thing removing the food from the water.

the algae on the screen gets MUCH more light, that still means the portion of the reef that is nearest to the lighting will still be able to get algae?

No, because no place in the tank has the rapid flow that a scrubber has over it's screen. That's what algae loves: Strong light, and rapid flow. That is why vertical scrubbers, with a waterfall, work best.

u mention that the algae grows on the scrubber "First", does that mean that the algae will ONLY grow on the scrubber until when the scrubber is FULL or ALMOST full before the algae chooses to move to grow in the display tank? please clarify.

If you clean your scrubber screen every 7 days, it will not "over fill". This way it will always be growing, and will be out-growing any algae in the display. Yes if you let the scrubber sit there for a month and never clean it, it would stop filtering and algae would return to the display.

than a scrubber is only a backup tool.

There are two cases where a skimmer is a necessity:

1. In case somebody will put a whole can or bag of food into the tank by accident, such as a retail store where open food containers might be setting next to open tanks. If this happens, the skimmer is the only tool which will help.

2. You have a fish-only tank (no corals at all). In this case, you have absolutely no need for small food particles in the water, because nothing will eat the particles and they will just rot into Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate. So, a skimmer is needed here to remove the food particles.

what happens if i have a scrubber that is full of algae and i do not trim or clean it for long?

If you wait more than 10 days, and it is growing good, some pieces of algae might let go and go in the tank. If a fish does not eat it, it will rot. But the scrubber will still be filtering. If you wait more that 14 days, the bottom layers of algae on the screen will die because of no light or flow, and these layers will let go and go back into the water, adding Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, and cloudiness. But it is still filtering. If you wait more than 21 days, all the above will happen, but you will lose all filtering, so it this case the scrubber starts being a problem instead of a help.

[Jameshong]

No, because no place in the tank has the rapid flow that a scrubber has over it's screen. That's what algae loves: Strong light, and rapid flow. That is why vertical scrubbers, with a waterfall, work best.

Hi SantaMonica,

Due to space constraint in my sump, I intend to put the scrubber screen(10x10") at 45 degree in my overflow behind the tank. I'll be using 30W bulb and lit is shining at one side only. Will it work this way as the flow from tank via overflow to the sump has a high turn over rate?

Please advice.

Thanks.

[ReDDeviLs]

If you feed coral food, like blended oysters (which is just a green liquid), the water is cloudy with food for only a few minutes. If you feed a gigantic amount that makes the water so cloudy that you can't see your corals, it clears up in an hour. This is with no filters at all in the tank, only a scrubber. The corals are the only thing removing the food from the water.

how about other filter feeders in your that that arent corals? other inverts? clams, shellfishes?

No, because no place in the tank has the rapid flow that a scrubber has over it's screen. That's what algae loves: Strong light, and rapid flow. That is why vertical scrubbers, with a waterfall, work best.

you are very wrong. infact, the maintank can have and also will have very rapid flows. especially SPS tank.

If you clean your scrubber screen every 7 days, it will not "over fill". This way it will always be growing, and will be out-growing any algae in the display. Yes if you let the scrubber sit there for a month and never clean it, it would stop filtering and algae would return to the display.

that also mean that a scrubber still have to maintain regularly. infact, it have to be clean more often then to clean a skimmer cup.

even doing a WC will not be as often as this. and like i say, even if WC is done weekly, trace element can be replenished. im sure scrubber cannot contribute to the lost of MH,CA and so on.

There are two cases where a skimmer is a necessity:

1. In case somebody will put a whole can or bag of food into the tank by accident, such as a retail store where open food containers might be setting next to open tanks. If this happens, the skimmer is the only tool which will help.

please do not think of such case. its almost impossible to happen. why not talk about when a anemone accident in a tank?

2. You have a fish-only tank (no corals at all). In this case, you have absolutely no need for small food particles in the water, because nothing will eat the particles and they will just rot into Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate. So, a skimmer is needed here to remove the food particles.

You are wrong again! there are alot of small nano fishes that feeds on small food particles. some food particles are so small that you can hardly or even see them.

If you wait more than 10 days, and it is growing good, some pieces of algae might let go and go in the tank. If a fish does not eat it, it will rot. But the scrubber will still be filtering. If you wait more that 14 days, the bottom layers of algae on the screen will die because of no light or flow, and these layers will let go and go back into the water, adding Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, and cloudiness. But it is still filtering. If you wait more than 21 days, all the above will happen, but you will lose all filtering, so it this case the scrubber starts being a problem instead of a help.

Thanks for explaining.

From this it shows that a scrubber needs to maintain constantly and timely if not it will cause more harm then good.

a skimmer on the other hand may also need cleaning but when you do not have the time and overlook the date to clean it, it will NOT do your tank any harm. it only cannot help to contribute in cleaning the tank.

can u imagine if u have a huge scrubber on a average size tank, when you overlook and do not clean it after 21days, the scrubber will release all this problem back into the tank at once. i am quite sure the livestock and living bacteria in the tank cannot cope and will crash your tank.

When a skimmer is used, i believe that we uses it because of unable to do water change so often and tends to pollute the tank water in a way feeding or another. Since u implement a scrubber. it made people believe that it can help improve the water quality alone or work hand in hand with the skimmer so that lesser water change maybe needed in short period of time.

if we had to clean the scrubber so often if not the scrubber wil be more harmful then help, i believe changing water is much a better alternative.

when we sit back and think, cleaning a scubber is almost as messy as doing water change. but be mindful that doing waterchange does much more help than using a scrubber.

[SantaMonica]

Angled screens don't get any flow on the back side, and thus are one-sided. So you need twice the area. So the 10 X 10 = 100 would be good for 50 gal tank. And you need to put a solid backing behind the plastic canvas, to keep water from falling through it. The bulb and flow should be good.

[Underwater]

I think the numerous positive comments from reefers around the world and in Singapore have already testified enough that scrubber works for them. Scrubber itself is not perfect nor any other methods including skimmer or water change. Each has their pros and cons. And NO ONE is saying skimmmer and WC are totally useless, so perhaps the moderator need not be so defensive and rebuke on every SM's replies. It's just AN ALTERNATIVE method for reefers to choose.

Each reefer will have their own priorities and concerns in reefing. Personally, I felt that for those who hated nuisance algae in main tank or keep lots of filter feeders, scrubber works perfectly cos it works for me. For once in my 4 yrs of reefing, nuisance algae slowed down and even stopped appearing on my main tank glass wall after using scrubber, and tubeworms are flourishing.

[stevenkoh08]

Ya Bro underwater are right bout the statement above , bout the algea really slow down and almost undetactable on the main tank.

As i use before but i stopped using it once, cause of my clip on light rust and the bulb i'm using are the curve type so hard to clean the bulb

However now i've started back with just 2days with LED with a light temp of 2700k will update once success.

[bobiegoh]

Hi Bobie,

Care to post a pic of your current algae growth on your scrubber?

Have adjusted the flow and now i am getting a constant flow as SM mentioned. What about wattage of lamp? whats the ideal wattage? i changed from a 20W to a 12W CFL

yo bro, my mobile cam not that good. Will get a better pic this week if necessary. Photo 1 is face 1 and photo 2 is face 2 of the screen. GB.