Mega Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover - DIY!

[dragon1188]

Hi SantaMonica,

Thanks for the great work and info.

Just one question: Would algae scrapper cause the bulk water to grow yellow much faster over time? That the case, would keeping the skimmer help or do we need plenty of active carbon?

Cheers!

[SantaMonica]

If you clean your scrubber screen in your sink with tap water once a week, the tank will never turn yellow. If it ever did, then carbon would remove it. But nobody that is using one of these scrubbers is having any yellowing, at all.

[SantaMonica]

Many folks asked for pics of the jski711 no-skimmer tank whose test results I already posted, so here they are along with an update he posted:

"Well first i'll start by giving you a little background of my tank. its been up for 2 years now and am running t5 lighting. in the past i have had algae issues and phosphates tested above .1 from overfeeding. (i'm trying to fatten up my clowns and hopefully get them spawning). i've also got a 15g tank plumbed into my system that has a pair of mandarins in it which i am also trying to get spawning. i had a sick mandarin and dosed my tank with Maracyn to try and save him. after dosing this for a week i was unable to turn my skimmer on because it would just overflow from the medicine. after doing numerous water changes and about a month later i still was unable to turn it back on, thats when i saw [the scrubber] thread. I also had to turn off my calcium reactor because the co2 was dropping my ph too low; the bubbles from the skimmer were really helping me keep my ph up but with my skimmer not running, it had to be turned off. thats when i decided to give [the scrubber] a try. i purchased a pre grown screen from inland and off i went. since adding the "scrubber" i have noticed a major increase in ph which allowed me to turn my calcium reactor back on and get things stable again. the reactor has only been back on for about 2 weeks now and im "re dialing" it in. my ph fluctuates between 7.8 at night and 8.0 during the day. I have over 30 different types of sps in my tank, just did a quick count, and i have noticed no ill side effects at all. i have also been overfeeding a ton, especially to my mandarins! i have also noticed that the green film of algae i would get on the glass every few days has gone. I don't even remember the last time i scraped it, although in the pics you will see it needs to be done soon cause i have a ton of coraline algae on it. So IMO this "scrubber" has done wonders for me. I have been skimmerless for over 3 months now and still do my normal water changes, sometimes i do go 2 weeks but normally every weekend i do one. the turf that was on the screen from inland is still there but it doesnt seem to be spreading but not receding either. below are some pictures from today, they were just quick shots so sorry if they are blurry but you will see the colors i've got are great and like i said earlier i have had NO ill side effects at all."

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[SantaMonica]

Part 1 of 2:

Growth Sequence of New Acrylic Screen

The new acrylic scrubber is up and kicking. These pics were taken while the original bucket was still operating, so the growth is slower than it would have been otherwise. I'm running 3000K on one side, and 6500K on the other, as a test. It probably won't make much difference until the holes in the screen are sealed off, but here are the daily pics. The T5 light on the front has been removed so you can see the screen:

Day 1

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay01.jpg

Day 2

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay02small.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay02.jpg

Day 3

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay03.jpg

Day 4

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay04.jpg

Day 5

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay05.jpg

Day 6

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay06.jpg

Day 7

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay07.jpg

Day 8

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay08.jpg

Day 9

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay09.jpg

Day 10

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay10.jpg

Day 11 (a huge growth increase):

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Part 2 of 2:

Notice that it takes several days before you can see any growth at all. And yes, I did seed the screen. Going back one day to Day 10, here are some closeups:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicCloseup1Day10.jpg

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicClo...2Day10small.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicCloseup2Day10.jpg

http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicClo...3Day10small.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicCloseup3Day10.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicCloseup4Day10.jpg

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicCloseup5Day10.jpg

And here is a closeup from Day 11:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11closeup.jpg

And what it looks like out of the stand. Note the algae coming out of drain; it was almost 2 feet long before I pulled it out for this pic:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11heldup.jpg

Here's the growth on the 3000K side:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11out3000K.jpg

And the 6500K side:

Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11out6500K.jpg

Instead of following the rule of cleaning only one side at a time, I had to do both in order to measure the algae of the 3000K side versus the 6500K side. Here is what was pulled off, like pulling a rope:

Here are the algae amounts removed, after a cleaning:

And here's the screen after cleaning; this is why you don't clean both sides, becuase it leaves left nothing on the screen for filtering:

A few notes:

o The screen is only 1.5 inches from the acrylic wall, and thus some water does get on the wall. But this unit is currently not setup for airflow with a fan, and it has a lid, so the water never gets a chance to evaporate. As a result very little saltcreep forms. I think I wiped it twice during the 11 days; however it did not do anything, just redistributed the droplets. On day 11 there was a small amount of creep; when I pulled the screen out I just reached in an splashed some water on it and it came off.

o There was a great increase in algae between day 10 and 11. I've seen this many times: once the hair algae gets to a certain point, the next day it covers everything.

o When the screen get covered, algae start flowing down the scrubber and out the drain. Not a little, but a lot. It easily reached the botton of the sump 18" below. I just grabbed it and pulled it off. This might be a way to feed tangs, if the unit were placed on the hood of the tank.

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day: Flow...

The basic rule of thumb for flow for a standard pipe slot is 35 gph (US gallons per hour) (140 liters per hour) per inch (2.2 cm) of screen width. Thus a screen 2" wide would need 70 gph. This should cover the entire screen with a swift flow on both sides, and leave you with a little room for adjustment. The more flow, the better, but this amount has proven to work well. How tall the screen is does not change the gph, however; only the width does. Here is the chart:

Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)

2" 70

3" 105

4" 140

5" 175

6" 210

7" 245

8" 280

9" 315

10" 350

11" 385

12" 420

13" 455

14" 490

15" 525

16" 560

17" 595

18" 630

19" 665

20" 700

[SantaMonica]

"Sly" on the SWF site is getting great growth in just 6 days from his trashcan-scrubber with built-in surge device:

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And what is this.... dinner?

...Nope, it a week of growth from just one side (the 6500K side) of my acrylic unit.

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[Cedric]

Thanks everyone for sharing this great way to remove nitrate and phosphate in our tank Now I wonder is there any tank maker out there who does custom tanks with built in aglae scrubber?

[SantaMonica]

Funny you ask. I'll be posting soon a request for manufacturers to do just that

[SantaMonica]

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Well this one takes the cake. Not only is it the biggest, but it's also the first one to use halides for lighting. "Reefski" on the MD site has a 700g tank and 800g sump, and had the entire garage to use for fish stuff, so he spared nothing in building his scrubber:

By the way, if this weren't enough, his entire back yard is a koi pond

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[peacemaker]

[johntanjm]

1 week after. 10hr photo period.

[SantaMonica]

Looks like it just had a cleaning?

Any pics of the lighting in use?

[johntanjm]

no cleaning at all. i think there's not much use algae in the system to begin with and the photo period of 10hrs might be too little. i'm using a 6500K 24W Philips light bulb. Let's just wait and see. or

[SantaMonica]

Yes, should be on 18 hours. Is the bulb down in the bucket? Also, is that acrylic sheet?

[johntanjm]

Yes the bulb is down in the bucket such that its sorta between those sheets. I don't think the sheets are made of acrylic, I think its more like plastic but in case your concern is that the surface is too smooth, I used a sand paper to scratch it down. There are a lot of minute scratches on the surface so its kinda rough for the algae to ledge onto.

I'm considering taking a walk by the beach to grab some algae off the surf zone to hurry things up a lil. I'm also in the midst of designing a new tank setup that will be 100% filtered using an algae scrubber.

your comments will be very very helpful dude. thanks!

[SantaMonica]

Don't bother with more seeding. How is the flow? Are both screen fully covered briskly? From your pic it looks like the water does not really cover the screen until near the bottom, at which point it's already more than 4" from the bulb. You want full brisk coverage, all the way across, right in front of the bulb (preferably 2-3" away.) I think that since you are on overflow only, dividing the flow up between two pipes is cause too little flow on each screen.

So: Consider doing a regular single screen, which will have double flow, even if you only use the light on one side. Also, increase the ON time to 18 hours. And start looking at getting some real screen, that you can just lay over your current one to get it started. The problem with your current ones are that when you clean, all the algae is going to come off. Real screen will keep some algae in the holes:

This "plastic canvas" one might be easier to get into the slot after cleaning, and the edges will not wear; it also will hold it's shape so that a solid frame may not be needed:

http://www.everythingplasticcanvas.com/pc-...sh-12-x-18.aspx

This "rug canvas" is made from fiber so that algae sticks to it the best; but it does not hold its shape when wet, so it will need a solid frame. Also, the edges will wear, so the frame will have to hold the edges down:

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CAT...PRODID=prd12195

[SantaMonica]

Well I'm trying to get caught up with the posts; gonna have to combine a few here to get them out without postponing anymore. Seems to be a lot of interest in scrubbers that are unique, like the giant one, and the solar one. Well today is another unique one, but first here are some results feedback:

"Pong" on the RF site said "i had a lot of green hair algae growing on my screen. noticed that the red algae in my DT has lessened dramatically."

"Johnt" on the UR site said "I've always used phosphate remover. I've tried most makes but always ended back using Rowa. since running the scrubber I've stopped the phosphate reactor and despite the scrubber not yet being at the Turf Algae stage the phosphate readings are dropping."

And "thauro77" on the SWF site said "Here are my test results, the dates are the water changes dates as well:

08/28

Calcium 660mg/l (when I first used the filter)

Carbonate 196.9 ppm/kh

Phosphate 0.5

Nitrates 20ppm

09/04

Calcium 500

Carbonate 214.8

Phosphate 0.5

Nitrates 10ppm

09/09

Calcium 440

carbonate 143.2

phosphate 0.5

nitrates 10ppm

09/23

calcium 440

carbonate 214.8

phosphate 0.25

nitrate 5.0ppm

And now for the first screen on any thread to use LEDs! "Snailrider" on the AC site built it:

He knows that the part of the screen underwater will not contribute, so he made sure the part above the water had enough size to handle things. We'll see how LED's work!

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[drato11]

Hi SantaMonica,

The algae turf John builds looks like water is just running down the screen at certain parts. (pipe with holes rather than water flowing over the full screen).

My question is, how do u slot in the screen into the pipe (with a slit cut on the pipe), yet ensure water is able to flow thru both sides of the screen smoothly? I guess this means that the slot cut on the pipe where the screen fits in must be bigger than the thickness of the screen. But roughly how much more should we cut to "even" out the water flowing down the screen?

Thanks for this great thread, u've been most helpful.

[SantaMonica]

Glad you like the info

I'd have to see better pics to see how his flow really looks. But generally, you should cut a 1/8" (3-4mm) slot, like this:

When you use this type of setup, you get perfect flow on both sides of the screen almost every time.

[oceanus]

Well I'm trying to get caught up with the posts; gonna have to combine a few here to get them out without postponing anymore. Seems to be a lot of interest in scrubbers that are unique, like the giant one, and the solar one. Well today is another unique one, but first here are some results feedback:

"Pong" on the RF site said "i had a lot of green hair algae growing on my screen. noticed that the red algae in my DT has lessened dramatically."

"Johnt" on the UR site said "I've always used phosphate remover. I've tried most makes but always ended back using Rowa. since running the scrubber I've stopped the phosphate reactor and despite the scrubber not yet being at the Turf Algae stage the phosphate readings are dropping."

And "thauro77" on the SWF site said "Here are my test results, the dates are the water changes dates as well:

08/28

Calcium 660mg/l (when I first used the filter)

Carbonate 196.9 ppm/kh

Phosphate 0.5

Nitrates 20ppm

09/04

Calcium 500

Carbonate 214.8

Phosphate 0.5

Nitrates 10ppm

09/09

Calcium 440

carbonate 143.2

phosphate 0.5

nitrates 10ppm

09/23

calcium 440

carbonate 214.8

phosphate 0.25

nitrate 5.0ppm

And now for the first screen on any thread to use LEDs! "Snailrider" on the AC site built it:

He knows that the part of the screen underwater will not contribute, so he made sure the part above the water had enough size to handle things. We'll see how LED's work!

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No all LEDs light will work on plant culturing . Some leds may seem to be very bright in the ###### eyes but it lack the wave length needed for plant photosynisis..

this is a extract from one of the website Source: Photo Morphogenesis in Plant by R.E. Kendrick and G.H.M. Kronenberg (Published in 1986, Martinus ;

Relation between WAVELENGTHS and PLANT CULTIVATION

1) Plant photosynthesis occurs at a wavelength of 400 nm to 700 nm

2) Certain wavelengths have greater influence on photosynthesis, 400 to 525 nm (blue color) and 610 to 720 nm (red color) are the biggest contributors to photosynthesis

3) Wavelength between 520 to 610 nm (green color) has the lowest ratio in plant pigment absorption

In regards to the principles stated above, organic lighting that is sold in the market usually refers to two specific wavelengths, the red and blue wavelength.

From a distance, the color of the light that exposed by the organic lighting is pink in color. While in existing white light LED, most utilize a blue color chip set with a coating of yellow phosphor and with this combination, white light is the end result. Therefore, the energy distribution of the white light has two distinct peaks at 445 nm (blue color) and 550 nm (yellowish-green color) but organic life also needs wavelengths at 610 to 720 nm (red color) and white light lacks this wavelength. This is the reason why white light LED is not advantageous for organic life cultivation.

[SantaMonica]

That's a good point about the white LED's.

Well since you are a LED user, you'd be in a good position to build an LED scrubber

You could use just the right size panel that would put the LED's only an inch from the screen, all the way across.

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Lighting Duration: Set up your scrubber lighting on a timer for 18 hours ON, and six hours OFF. The scrubber itself won't care when those hours are, but if you want, you can have them on when your display lights are off, so as to help balance pH in the system.

[SantaMonica]

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Here is a note to skimmer manufacturers, as well as manufacturers of acrylics/plastics, lighting, and pumps. One way to benefit from scrubbers is to start building them, so as to make life easier for aquarists. There is no patent, and I have no interest in building them, although designing them is fun. Promoting them is fun too. But manufacturing is not my thing, so hopefully some folks will start making at least a simple version (like the Santa Monica 120) available. Look at it like this: Manufacturers of skimmers currently make an expensive product that has pumps and acrylic/plastic parts. Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

Scrubbers, however, do. Instead of viewing scrubbers as a make-at-home rig that stops people from buying skimmers, manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture which includes acrylic, plastic, lights, pumps, timers, fans and complex parts, all woven together. Imagine the designs that could be achieved which would allow the most water flow, the most air, the most light, all in the least space possible, and for the best price. It's a designer's dream. Sure, many folks will continue making their own scrubbers, but at some point these folks will upgrade their tanks and will not want to hassle with building larger versions. So, here are some things I thought of that manufacturers could offer:

o A simple low-cost design; just an acrylic box, preferably with a mirror inside finish. The customer would add all other parts. This is what I built.

o Complex designs that would be needed to fit into the many different places that aquarists have: Above a crowded sump, behind the tank, vertically next to tank, next to a tank in a stand-alone furniture finish, or on the wall as a decorative item.

o Skimmers designed to work with scrubbers, by having one connect/feed the other.

o Scrubber lights with built-in timers, for nanos.

o Ultra small scrubber boxes for nanos, possibly with self-contained LED lights, the size of a cell phone.

o Nano hoods with scrubbers built into them.

o Sumps with built in scrubbers, instead of built-in wet/dry's.

o Display lighting-fixtures with scrubbers connected to the back of them, such that the scrubber uses the same light.

o Tank options, such as scrubber-on-backside.

o Auto-cleaners that clean/scrub/scrape the screen automatically.

o Hand/electric tools specialized to clean the screen.

o RODI sprayers that give the screen a FW spray periodically (to kill pods), possibly doubling as a top off.

o Non-destructive pumps to get pods from the sump to the display.

o Self-priming pumps built in to scrubber, for placement on top of displays with no sump.

o Quick-disconnect waterfall pipes.

o Double and triple thick screens, which allow algae to stick better during cleanings.

o Multiple screens, with large areas for large tanks.

o Ultra thin LED powered flexible screens, which could weave around obstacles.

o Fan on a temp controller, to keep water temp preset.

o Uniquely shaped T5 panels, such as 12 X 12, to perfectly fit a screen.

o Safety switches that cut off the lights and/or flow during certain conditions.

A great first model could be targeted to smaller tanks (SW and FW) that may not have sumps, and thus would include a self-priming pump inside the scrubber. It would sit on or near the display and would pull water up to it. It would drain right back to the display, and would give the customer the option of letting the algae grow out the drain (and into the tank to feed the fish), or removing the algae as it comes out of the drain, before it gets to the display.

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[SantaMonica]

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Results of the Day:

"darkblue" on the RP site says, "Been running a 4"x10" OHF [over head filter scrubber] version on my 15g for almost 2 months already. My Nitrate reading started dropping after around 3 weeks. I've had 0 Nitrates for a month now. I'm using Seachem for my tests. The screen is just partially covered with what I think are patches of brown turf."

And "jfdelacruz", also on the RP site, says "I recently implemented this on my tank. I [originally] had an overhead filter to try and filter out a lot of detritus, and changed out filter foams every week. nitrates and phosphates were high and I had brown algae (kinda like cyano) on my sandbed already too thick to fight. I did the 2 days lights out and it took out the brown film algae. I bought a 10watt fluorescent light from carti and then cut a right fit cross-stitch cloth as my screen and layed it flat on my OHF and took out the foam. lights are on 24/7 [temporarily]. I'm on my 5th day and algae is basically non existent in the tank, while the whole cloth is covered in the same brown film algae that covered my sandbed and is starting to grow the green algae. 10,000K ung fluorescent and after day 2 it already had algae on it. on day 3 the whole cloth was lightly covered. im still waiting for day 10. also Im going on a 2nd week no water change just to try it out and so far everything's doing good. coral's are happy and clam is happy. inverts and clownfish is also happy and eating lots of cyclopeeze everyday!

Also, I'm putting together a little series on how nutrients work in our aquariums. It will hopefully help folks better understand what affects what, and how we can make things work their best. Here's the first one below. I use Salifert for my testing, so I'll just refer to them:

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