Sump Design. Comments Welcome

[planetg]

Hi,

First of all thanx to all the help I got from guys I PM about my design. I've decided to make some changes and post in here for others to comment. Pls add on if there are any other tips.

I've custom made my tank 2 months ago, was too busy and let the man design my sump/fuge for me. Needless to say, I regretted and come up with my design after lots of gd reeading.

Please feel free to ask question and give your comments.

1. My cabinet is 48"(length) by 30"(width) by 36"(height) and I would like to house all equipment in the cabinet except my chiller.

2. It will be a 3 piece set-up, Sump, Fuge and Top-up Reservoir

3. First the 1.25" input drain will enter into the box which will flow to the sump area

4. The sump area will house my H&S Skimmer, DIY Ca and Kalk Reactor. I intend to tee-off a small pump to input to skimmer and Ca reactor.

5. Output of Skimmer will go to the baffles area with activated carbon and phospate remover. Output of Ca and Kalk Reactor will go to the return reservoir.hah

6. There will be 2 bulkheads installed in the return area. One for spare and one for an Iwaki MD55 or MX70.

7. The return will be split into 3 (chiller, refugium, return to tank)

8. The refugium will overflow to the return area. It will bypass the baffles area to allow pods to return to tank. I dun think there'll be lots of bubbles from the fuge since it's low flow.

9. The top-up reservoir will feed the Kalk Reactor and will be controlled via float switches. (maybe a Tubby! Cookie are u listening? )

10. Lastly, the chiller output will be fed back to the return reservoir. I hope this will not cause a 'short circuit' cos i feel that majority of the return will still pump up to the tank.

Thanx for reading my lengthy description. Now please give me all the input and advices. All info will be greatly appreciated

[Morgan]

10. Lastly, the chiller output will be fed back to the return reservoir. I hope this will not cause a 'short circuit' cos i feel that majority of the return will still pump up to the tank.

Don't think that you are suppose to do that...the water will cool down faster before the main tank. Think your chiller will cut in and out all the time.

9. The top-up reservoir will feed the Kalk Reactor and will be controlled via float switches.

What is the drip rate or control on the reactor?

7. The return will be split into 3 (chiller, refugium, return to tank)

MD55/70 may not have sufficient water to be split 3 way. It all depend on the flow rate you set for each outlet

5. Output of Skimmer will go to the baffles area with activated carbon and phospate remover. Output of Ca and Kalk Reactor will go to the return reservoir.hah

Make sure to put your skimmer high enough for the water to return to the reservior.

That it going to sleep...don't want to think anymore.

[Achilles Tang]

Looks better now.

[Joe_P]

. The sump area will house my H&S Skimmer, DIY Ca and Kalk Reactor. I intend to tee-off a small pump to input to skimmer and Ca reactor

Why would you wanna do that?? YOu mentioned that your cabinet height is 36"... and from your layout, think you gonna have some trouble if you need to meddle with them....

I recommend that you place them out of the sump... so that chores like topping up kalk..., adjustment of CO2 feed ... cleaning of skimmer cup can be done easily.....

The return will be split into 3 (chiller, refugium, return to tank)

Split the output of the pump into 2 (one for chiller and the other to return...) for the sump recommend you do a tee from the mains with a ball valve controlling the amount into the refugium....

Let your returns be made into good use.....

The top-up reservoir will feed the Kalk Reactor and will be controlled via float switches. (maybe a Tubby! Cookie are u listening?  )

Notice your reservoir is a little small....

2 choices... either have a large top up water container... or ensure a larger reservoir..... less maintenance...

Lastly, the chiller output will be fed back to the return reservoir. I hope this will not cause a 'short circuit' cos i feel that majority of the return will still pump up to the tank.

Feed the chiller returns into main tank direct.....

[Achilles Tang]

The sump area will house my H&S Skimmer, DIY Ca and Kalk Reactor. I intend to tee-off a small pump to input to skimmer and Ca reactor

Why would you wanna do that?? YOu mentioned that your cabinet height is 36"... and from your layout, think you gonna have some trouble if you need to meddle with them....

I recommend that you place them out of the sump... so that chores like topping up kalk..., adjustment of CO2 feed ... cleaning of skimmer cup can be done easily.....

Yeah... it does seem a little cramped to put so many insump equipment in there. You have to cater space to manuever moving things in and out of the sump, especially tall equipment.

The return will be split into 3 (chiller, refugium, return to tank)

Split the output of the pump into 2 (one for chiller and the other to return...) for the sump recommend you do a tee from the mains with a ball valve controlling the amount into the refugium....

Let your returns be made into good use.....

You have to make sure that the amount of water returning into the sump is fast enough to ensure that water teeing-off into the chiller will not drastically slow down due to the head pressure from the chiller cooling coils and can actually return water back to the top of the tank as suggested by you. Too fast is not a prob as you have a ball valve. What happens if the back pressure is too great for the gravity fed piping to the chiller?

The top-up reservoir will feed the Kalk Reactor and will be controlled via float switches. (maybe a Tubby! Cookie are u listening?  )

Notice your reservoir is a little small....

2 choices... either have a large top up water container... or ensure a larger reservoir..... less maintenance...

He can install a solenoid to control your tap to fill up this reservoir.

Lastly, the chiller output will be fed back to the return reservoir. I hope this will not cause a 'short circuit' cos i feel that majority of the return will still pump up to the tank.

Feed the chiller returns into main tank direct.....

My point above to consider.

[alvy]

most inputs silimar to Joe's just that -

you are going to use mx70??to split into 3 outlets for chiller, main return and even tee off to cal reactor is NO PROBLEM at all..you are really under-estimating the flow of this pump...your drain towards the sump will be a storm..make sure the durso or watever drain contraption you are using can handle 1500g of water flow! also ur bulkhead connection to your pump should be at least 1.25" large else sure get cavitation (i'm using 1.5")..a lot of water flow will be experienced in ur sump!! think your cal and kal reactor should really be out of sump..you'll get lots of micro bubbles too due to the heavy turbulence from the drain and too little distance for the bubbles to float and settle..basically try to cover the sump..

i'll advise a md55 instead for this proj..and use streams/powerheads to increase flow rate in tank..

[Achilles Tang]

OH yeah! MX-70! Alvy's right... it's a monster...

[planetg]

dear shifus,

thanx for your comments.

MG, AT and JP (Chiller Return),

1. I would like to return my chiller output to the main tank but i will need to drill holes on my canopy and I do not know if it'll affect the support structure. Maybe I'll take some pix when I'm back home for advice. But in the event I have to return somewhere in the sump, where shd i return it to? Or is it totally disastrous to do that cos I dun wanna trip chiller on/off. What is the best way?

AL, AT and JP (Equipment out of Sump)

2. I have now decided to move Ka and Ca Reactor out of Sump. Hopefully the eventual footprint will not be too large.

AL and AT (MX70 or MD55)

3. Sounds scary and I may have to use an MD55 instead.

JP (Reservoir)

4. Becoz I'm moving the CA and Ka Reactors out of sump, I think I'll increase another 2 inches for the reservoir. The top up reservoir on float switches will ensure water level in sump. Only trouble is a rather small top-up reservoir but have to make do with such constraints.

All (Microbubbles and Flowrate)

5. How to ensure that my system can handle microbubbles from the drain? Are the baffles and larger area in sump as pointed out by Alvy for bubbles to settle enuff?

Thanx for all inputs. Very helpful

[Achilles Tang]

As I suggested in RC, you should consider a dedicated closed loop for your chiller at your main tank.

Expensive lesson learnt: Never forget to switch on your sump pump ie. water overheats in your main tank while you have a chilled sump.

Microbubbles are a pain in my side too. I had to break down a partition baffle to increase my intake space so microbubbles have more time and space to dessipate. But I still get them from time to time when the water level drops in my sump. Now with my TUBBY to ensure a stable water level... I rarely get them!

[planetg]

AT,

If I feel that drilling additional holes on the canopy wouldn't hurt the support structure, I will consider a closed loop for chiller.

How do you set it up? A little pump shd be good enuff right? I'm usuing a Reef Relief 1/2 hp

[Joe_P]

JP (Reservoir)

4. Becoz I'm moving the CA and Ka Reactors out of sump, I think I'll increase another 2 inches for the reservoir. The top up reservoir on float switches will ensure water level in sump. Only trouble is a rather small top-up reservoir but have to make do with such constraints.

Frankly, I dun see the point of employing a top up reservoir if in the first place that reservoir is small......

You jus end up topping up the reservoir as often as you do so to the sump.....

Guess you jus have to find a space to house a larger container....

and from your diagram, you seem to have your chiller placed else where... ever thought of placing your reservoir else where too???

[planetg]

You jus end up topping up the reservoir as often as you do so to the sump.....

Joe, how often do you see that i have to top up my reservoir? If it's like every 2 days, then it's really troublesome but it won't be that bad right?

The option of placing a larger reservoir now is not possible due to space constraints ard the tank. *sigh*

[Achilles Tang]

AT,

If I feel that drilling additional holes on the canopy wouldn't hurt the support structure, I will consider a closed loop for chiller.

How do you set it up? A little pump shd be good enuff right? I'm usuing a Reef Relief 1/2 hp

Depends on how far your chiller is and the height it has to fight against.

[planetg]

AT,

Chiller is just beside the tank and it has to fight almost 5+ ft up. Is your chiller intake pre-drilled? or something like a drop-in pvc pipe with strainer? If not pre-drilled, quite troublesome right?

[Achilles Tang]

Pre-drilled. Custom made tank, remember?

Well, if its a drop in PVC pipe using siphon effect, a gravity feed is quite difficult. Advisable to be pump-driven.

[planetg]

haha. i know!

What if i have no choice but to utilise my sump for chiller input and output? what shd be my best plan?

A. Use a little pump to feed the chiller from the intake area and then output to the return reservoir. Shd be the ideal way right?

B. Tee-off from Return to feed the chiller and output to the return reservoir. Because majority of the water is pumped up the tank, it shd be ok. However, Morgan mentioned that it may cause a frequent chiller on/off

*arghhh*

[planetg]

Added new pic with equipment out of tank.

Another question. Are 2" baffles good enuff to counter the microbubbles?

[Tanzy]

The baffles will work.

Keep the CO2 cannister outside the cabinet. Your design looks like the cannister is too close to the sump.

Use a true union joint to between the bulkhead and Iwaki, also add a union between the Iwaki and return pipe to facilitate maintenance.

[planetg]

hi tanzy,

1. i've already kept in mind to install true union values at the input and output of pump. one question though, what happens if i change the iwaki pump for some reason? how to ensure the input and output fits the union fittings?

2. pls enlighten me why it's better to keep the CO2 out of sump? is it becoz of rust?

thanx

[Tanzy]

If in the rare but unfortunate event that you are unable to replace the Iwaki with a pump that uses similar size fittings, you can resort to using reducers and unions to make everything fit again but I doubt you will have to.

If the cannister is iron, it will rust. Even if you do get an aluminium cannister the salt spray will corrode the valve, so it's always good to isolate the cannister from salt water.

[planetg]

roget that tanzy. thanx for the info

[Coral_ClamS]

where do u connect refugium to sump... cant see any connection in the pic!

[planetg]

Hi CC,

i've mentioned earlier in my description that i will tee-off my return to feed the refugium. joe suggested tee-off the input drain but i'll have to see if it's possible cos it's a modification, not a brand new setup.

[chanbi]

U may want to measure the space given for the connection b/w your bulk head to the iwaki pump. With the true union joint and so on, it may take more than the <10" that you allocated for it.. If i remember correctly, just a 1" true union joint is already ~4" long.

[Joe_P]

Joe, how often do you see that i have to top up my reservoir? If it's like every 2 days, then it's really troublesome but it won't be that bad right?

The option of placing a larger reservoir now is not possible due to space constraints ard the tank. *sigh*

Do consider properly.... a large reservoir or large water top up container would be something that you would appreciate in the long run.... esp if you travel often or simpy a forgetful person...

I personally went for a really large reservoir....

can go as long as 3 -4 weeks before I'm required to top up...