Cycling of Water - Need Help...

[raylinea]

Hi everyone,

I am very new to this club and consider myself a noob. All this while, I thought that by having good level of salt water and some fishes in a tank, it should work..but i was wrong...

I have just set up my small marine tank (35cm x 14cm) 2 weeks ago. Initially there was some live rocks. Then I started to put in two sea horses ( 1 week ago), 2 clown fishes, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow fin, 1 hermit crab, 1 cleaner shrimp & 1 anemone (Last Friday). Sad to say, all of them has died this evening except hermit crab and cleaner shrimp (anemone still surviving)....

I am really puzzled..what went wrong? The fishes did eat and was swimming pretty lively over the weeknd and they just RIP at the same time...not to mention the high cost which I paid for the two sea horses ($70 bucks bot at Jireh Clementi)

Is it because of I have never cycle long enough for my tank? If so, how should I make sure that my water is stable enough before putting in the fishes?

Note: What you are seeing here...is already history..all fishes have R.I.P...:-(

Regards, Andy

[Weapon_Master]

Bro,

Sorry to hear about your loss but please do some reading before you start. Anemone typically requires good lighting and have tendancy to move about if they are not happy. Also Anemone can sting other corals that you may have. More importantly Anemone releases toxic when they die. There its not recommended for beginner typically.

Sea Horse are beautiful but they can normally only survive in species only tank given their slow nature in getting their food. Putting them in a reef tank in most cases is as good as killing them.

Do you have a skimmer? This is the most basis essential item of a marine setup. I would recommend a good skimmer to start with or you will end up upgrading.

Lastly and most impt thing is if you had measured your water parameters ie NO2, NO3, Amonia etc?

[beebeefl]

Get a pump to creat some small wave.

change lighting to actnic blue and marine white.

Do a water change

use crystal marine mix salt

Hi everyone,

I am very new to this club and consider myself a noob. All this while, I thought that by having good level of salt water and some fishes in a tank, it should work..but i was wrong...

I have just set up my small marine tank (35cm x 14cm) 2 weeks ago. Initially there was some live rocks. Then I started to put in two sea horses ( 1 week ago), 2 clown fishes, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow fin, 1 hermit crab, 1 cleaner shrimp & 1 anemone (Last Friday). Sad to say, all of them has died this evening except hermit crab and cleaner shrimp (anemone still surviving)....

I am really puzzled..what went wrong? The fishes did eat and was swimming pretty lively over the weeknd and they just RIP at the same time...not to mention the high cost which I paid for the two sea horses ($70 bucks bot at Jireh Clementi)

Is it because of I have never cycle long enough for my tank? If so, how should I make sure that my water is stable enough before putting in the fishes?

Note: What you are seeing here...is already history..all fishes have R.I.P...:-(

Regards, Andy

[raylinea]

Bro,

Sorry to hear about your loss but please do some reading before you start. Anemone typically requires good lighting and have tendancy to move about if they are not happy. Also Anemone can sting other corals that you may have. More importantly Anemone releases toxic when they die. There its not recommended for beginner typically.

Sea Horse are beautiful but they can normally only survive in species only tank given their slow nature in getting their food. Putting them in a reef tank in most cases is as good as killing them.

Do you have a skimmer? This is the most basis essential item of a marine setup. I would recommend a good skimmer to start with or you will end up upgrading.

Lastly and most impt thing is if you had measured your water parameters ie NO2, NO3, Amonia etc?

[raylinea]

Bro,

Sorry to hear about your loss but please do some reading before you start. Anemone typically requires good lighting and have tendancy to move about if they are not happy. Also Anemone can sting other corals that you may have. More importantly Anemone releases toxic when they die. There its not recommended for beginner typically.

Sea Horse are beautiful but they can normally only survive in species only tank given their slow nature in getting their food. Putting them in a reef tank in most cases is as good as killing them.

Do you have a skimmer? This is the most basis essential item of a marine setup. I would recommend a good skimmer to start with or you will end up upgrading.

Lastly and most impt thing is if you had measured your water parameters ie NO2, NO3, Amonia etc?

Hi Bro,

Ya, I fully agree and it was my mistake that without proper education and I just jump into it. Because there was one day I walked into an aquarium shop and I did see some small nano setup and it was pretty impressive. So I just asked the owner and she told me the procedure in setting up. As for sea-horses, I never really know that they behave in this way...haiz...heart pain is not so much on the 70 bucks..but it was a pity that they died in my hand (without proper caring)

I don't have a skimmer as my tank is pretty small. Although it is 35cm in length, but the depth is only approx 17cm. If I am going to intro in a skimmer, i might face with a space contraint issue...

Sad to say, I never did any measure on NO2, NO3, Amonia...

As for Anemone, it moves away from the rock (this morning) and landed on the sea-bed. Do we need to feed the anemone?

One noob question, will Hermit crab kill any of my fishes? Reason is my mum keep blaming me by putting in the hermit crab and killed all the fishes..she demand me to smash the shell and kill the crab. But, I believe when the crab trying to "chew" on the clown fish, it was already dying..and lying on the sand bed (as I never witness how it died actually)...pardon me if I am wrong?

[raylinea]

Get a pump to creat some small wave.

change lighting to actnic blue and marine white.

Do a water change

use crystal marine mix salt

Hi Bro,

Is it advisable to get a pump for such a small tank?

My lamp are pretty small..I wonder where can I get such blue or marine bulb?

How often I need to do a water change?

Thanks..

[Solo77]

Bro,

Sad to know your case but if you are still interested in reefing, do listen to some seniors' advices. Do some readings in the marine setup and their requirement and behaviour. Basic equipment for a small nano set - filtration system, lighting(blue light(maybe 10 to 14K)), skimmer is highly recommended(got those small attachment type), fan or chiller to keep water below 30 degree, rock, saltwater and for bottom(go for non or ard 1 inche of sand or mixed coral shell). You need to create some movement, this can be done thr wave maker or those hang on filter where filtered water will flow back into the tank, hence creating current to oxygenate the water. For test kits, it doesnt come cheap. Start off with cheap livestock and stock it slowly(not easy as you are likely to be overwhelmed by your emotion to add new stocks)

Hermit crab in general does not eat live fishes. They will only feed on those dead fishes or those dying fishes. Your shrimp will join in shortly, if you do keep them....

For cycling of tank, when you placed your live rock, etc in the tank, your NO and ammonia level are likely to be high. Hence, you need to let the tank runs and only add in livestock when your NO level reaches zero or near to it. To speed up the process, some ppl will buy live bacterias and pump into the tank or throw in seafood and let them rot(need a skimmer and water change to reduce pungent smell). To aid further, use new seawater.

As mentioned, you can add in a pump to increase oxygen level in the tank. However, if you skimmer or filter is creating flow, it may not be necessary. I have one quarantine tank which keeps fish only and it is equipped with sand, skimmer, light, rock and sandbed. Water change can be done weekly and the percentage can range from 5% to 10% or 20%. For major disaster, 50% is recommended. Please mark your water level and do top-up of DI/RO or normal tap water to ensure your SG level(layman term, salt level) is maintained.

Anyway, my knowledge is limited, pls use as reference and read more and seek snr advice. All the best.

Hi Bro,

Is it advisable to get a pump for such a small tank?

My lamp are pretty small..I wonder where can I get such blue or marine bulb?

How often I need to do a water change?

Thanks..

[Thexder]

Which shop did you go to? Don't tell me its Jireh?

Anyway, you can add those hang-on skimmer to your small tank. They don't take up much space since they hang on outside of tank.

You probably need a small wavemaker to circulate the water inside your tank.

You need a chiller or fans to cool down your tank if you want to keep anemone.

Look in the Pasar Malam section for cheaper buys of those equipment. Helps to keep your costs down.

[beebeefl]

IF it is based on 1ft =30cm tank

a small pump can b purchase (smallest one you can find like 100L per hour type

to create small current so that the water stay active and fresh

secondly PL tubes 9watts are available at C328 or ask the shopowner for rainbow 1ft (blue and white lamp)

Lastly it is discourage to have anemone for 1ft tank especially the bigger type

try to get a bigger liferock for your tank one that look like mountain type bcos yrs seems to be like branches type'

the reason is very obvious

Hi Bro,

Is it advisable to get a pump for such a small tank?

My lamp are pretty small..I wonder where can I get such blue or marine bulb?

How often I need to do a water change?

Thanks..

[raylinea]

Bro,

Sad to know your case but if you are still interested in reefing, do listen to some seniors' advices. Do some readings in the marine setup and their requirement and behaviour. Basic equipment for a small nano set - filtration system, lighting(blue light(maybe 10 to 14K)), skimmer is highly recommended(got those small attachment type), fan or chiller to keep water below 30 degree, rock, saltwater and for bottom(go for non or ard 1 inche of sand or mixed coral shell). You need to create some movement, this can be done thr wave maker or those hang on filter where filtered water will flow back into the tank, hence creating current to oxygenate the water. For test kits, it doesnt come cheap. Start off with cheap livestock and stock it slowly(not easy as you are likely to be overwhelmed by your emotion to add new stocks)

Hermit crab in general does not eat live fishes. They will only feed on those dead fishes or those dying fishes. Your shrimp will join in shortly, if you do keep them....

For cycling of tank, when you placed your live rock, etc in the tank, your NO and ammonia level are likely to be high. Hence, you need to let the tank runs and only add in livestock when your NO level reaches zero or near to it. To speed up the process, some ppl will buy live bacterias and pump into the tank or throw in seafood and let them rot(need a skimmer and water change to reduce pungent smell). To aid further, use new seawater.

As mentioned, you can add in a pump to increase oxygen level in the tank. However, if you skimmer or filter is creating flow, it may not be necessary. I have one quarantine tank which keeps fish only and it is equipped with sand, skimmer, light, rock and sandbed. Water change can be done weekly and the percentage can range from 5% to 10% or 20%. For major disaster, 50% is recommended. Please mark your water level and do top-up of DI/RO or normal tap water to ensure your SG level(layman term, salt level) is maintained.

Anyway, my knowledge is limited, pls use as reference and read more and seek snr advice. All the best.

Hi solo77 bro,

Thanks for your advice...ya, definitely I need to hear all the senior advices..this is one main reason why I join this forum...I guess for now, the only option left for me is to let the water cycle with some live rocks. But again, what should I take note and when is the right time to place in the fishes...

Btw, when u guys mentioned live stocks..is it referring to fishes?

Paiseh...another noob question...

Thanks

[raylinea]

Which shop did you go to? Don't tell me its Jireh?

Anyway, you can add those hang-on skimmer to your small tank. They don't take up much space since they hang on outside of tank.

You probably need a small wavemaker to circulate the water inside your tank.

You need a chiller or fans to cool down your tank if you want to keep anemone.

Look in the Pasar Malam section for cheaper buys of those equipment. Helps to keep your costs down.

The one I normally go is near to Chinatown Hawker Center as my office sis just opposite Chinatown. But I bought sea-horses from Jireh..thats why I felt that I kena "ko tok"...

[beebeefl]

WELL if u r refering to that shophouse in chinatown chances are u r buying the high side.

well anyway this hobby of ours is not cheap either.

sEA HORSES ARE NOT EASY to keep on the contrary they are like discus in the freshwater trade, needs certain requirement to keep them happy and in shape.

if you are insistant on seahorses you can pm bro peong for advise. as

for your tank go for hardy fishes like chromis, damsel and normal clowns or humbugs. alternativly you can try to fish some local waters fishes and keep them like rabbit fishes etc adding to that you can keep invertebrae like feather duster tube worm or one clam.

remember dun over load. the tank will crash eventually if you overload on a 1ft

if budget not the issue go for 2ft bcos sooner or later you will go for the bigger things in life as this hobby is bigger the more fishes and stuff the better....haha

The one I normally go is near to Chinatown Hawker Center as my office sis just opposite Chinatown. But I bought sea-horses from Jireh..thats why I felt that I kena "ko tok"...

[raylinea]

WELL if u r refering to that shophouse in chinatown chances are u r buying the high side.

well anyway this hobby of ours is not cheap either.

sEA HORSES ARE NOT EASY to keep on the contrary they are like discus in the freshwater trade, needs certain requirement to keep them happy and in shape.

if you are insistant on seahorses you can pm bro peong for advise. as

for your tank go for hardy fishes like chromis, damsel and normal clowns or humbugs. alternativly you can try to fish some local waters fishes and keep them like rabbit fishes etc adding to that you can keep invertebrae like feather duster tube worm or one clam.

remember dun over load. the tank will crash eventually if you overload on a 1ft

if budget not the issue go for 2ft bcos sooner or later you will go for the bigger things in life as this hobby is bigger the more fishes and stuff the better....haha

Think the Chinatown one still alright...the one which I felt is selling on the high side is from Clementi Blk 505 (Jireh Aquarium), which sold me one sea horse for $35

[Solo77]

Bro, livestock refers to anything that got life....hehehe....fishes....corals...etc.

With regards to the cycling, as mentioned, you can buy NO and ammonia test kit. For new startup tank, the levels for NO and Ammonia are high. Once cycled, your NO and ammonia will be low or zero. That will indicate your tank is ready to add stock. For big tanks, usually take month/s. For small tank, may be faster. Anyway, this is just indicator. Some ppl cycled their tank for 3 months to 6 months.

I also work near chinatown and always go to the shop to see see look look. Personal opinion is in marine, seems like no market rate...hence, you need to know the general avg and determine worth getting....for the chinatown shop....some items are reasonable...some are : X.....heheh....approach the brother...easy going as compared to her sis(personally). Also, for advices...better dont listen 100 percent from them...check with reefers and read up...for them...everything also easy to keep....lol...

maybe next time can meet you at the shop....lol....

to prevent tank crash....you can do weekly water change and feed mildly but will still subject to crashing as you do not have a powerful skimmer to assist in "purifying the water".

So you work near chinatown and stays at west coast huh....hehehe. Seahorse not easy to keep....ya...ask Bro Peong.....he got tanks just for seahorses and his seahorses very bold....

Think the Chinatown one still alright...the one which I felt is selling on the high side is from Clementi Blk 505 (Jireh Aquarium), which sold me one sea horse for $35

[Thexder]

Think the Chinatown one still alright...the one which I felt is selling on the high side is from Clementi Blk 505 (Jireh Aquarium), which sold me one sea horse for $35

I don't know the market rate for seahorses. I also buy LS from Jireh. I think their prices are higher compared to the farms. But compare to other marine shops, its around there. Some of the LS will be cheaper, some will be pricier. So don't feel too bad that you paid too much. Its part of the hobby, as long as you enjoy what you bought its more important.

[hermitcrab]

Hi Raylinea,

from the pic, you seem to be using under gravel filter for filtration, is it? I think thats y your effective depth of water is affected. Till now, i myself have no use under gravel filter but seem like it is mostly used for freshwater.

[beebeefl]

Hi Raylinea,

from the pic, you seem to be using under gravel filter for filtration, is it? I think thats y your effective depth of water is affected. Till now, i myself have no use under gravel filter but seem like it is mostly used for freshwater.

there are pros and cons for using undergravel or chemical or biological filter

read out more in the library ok

[khengguan]

Hi Raylinea,

I have the Pl ltg gold color (blue/white) variable up to 2 ft. suitable for your tank.

if u are interested sms 90021800

[raylinea]

Bro, livestock refers to anything that got life....hehehe....fishes....corals...etc.

With regards to the cycling, as mentioned, you can buy NO and ammonia test kit. For new startup tank, the levels for NO and Ammonia are high. Once cycled, your NO and ammonia will be low or zero. That will indicate your tank is ready to add stock. For big tanks, usually take month/s. For small tank, may be faster. Anyway, this is just indicator. Some ppl cycled their tank for 3 months to 6 months.

I also work near chinatown and always go to the shop to see see look look. Personal opinion is in marine, seems like no market rate...hence, you need to know the general avg and determine worth getting....for the chinatown shop....some items are reasonable...some are : X.....heheh....approach the brother...easy going as compared to her sis(personally). Also, for advices...better dont listen 100 percent from them...check with reefers and read up...for them...everything also easy to keep....lol...

maybe next time can meet you at the shop....lol....

to prevent tank crash....you can do weekly water change and feed mildly but will still subject to crashing as you do not have a powerful skimmer to assist in "purifying the water".

So you work near chinatown and stays at west coast huh....hehehe. Seahorse not easy to keep....ya...ask Bro Peong.....he got tanks just for seahorses and his seahorses very bold....

Bro,

Yup, our office is located at Temple Street. Me and my kakis will have lunch everyday at the Chinatown hawker and 101% will definitely walk over to Wong Lai Kee (that fishshop across the hawker center) and you will see us between 1.45pm to 2.15pm..everyday...think we shld get a vIP card liao

Nop, I stay at Redhill..why I landed at Jireh is after one full day of marine fish hunting (From LCK to PCK to qianhu) on one particular sat afternoon..until too shak liao...then also dun wish to waste the trip (imagine after 3 hours and u still empty handed), so i just grab the 2 sea horses..

Hope to see u soon at the Fish Shop...

[raylinea]

Hi Raylinea,

from the pic, you seem to be using under gravel filter for filtration, is it? I think thats y your effective depth of water is affected. Till now, i myself have no use under gravel filter but seem like it is mostly used for freshwater.

Bro,

Yes..that's the only filter which I am using....I am thinking to get one small hanging type to put it at the left side of the tank...is it advisable?

[Underwater]

Me too work near Chinatown hawker centre area. Maybe one day can meet up you guys at the shop, haha. Been to the shop once and didn;t know it sell marine stuff too. Marine fishes not alot but decent enough for a half tropical half marine LFS. l kapo ask the price of a yellow tang and was quoted $38. Not sure if this is the market px though.

If the uncle allow test feed of fishes before buying, then may worth considering buying from the uncle. But their nano set up really cannot make it IMO. If no test feed allowed, then i rather go Sealife or Aqua Marin.

[kthc]

Hi everyone,

I am very new to this club and consider myself a noob. All this while, I thought that by having good level of salt water and some fishes in a tank, it should work..but i was wrong...

I have just set up my small marine tank (35cm x 14cm) 2 weeks ago. Initially there was some live rocks. Then I started to put in two sea horses ( 1 week ago), 2 clown fishes, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow fin, 1 hermit crab, 1 cleaner shrimp & 1 anemone (Last Friday). Sad to say, all of them has died this evening except hermit crab and cleaner shrimp (anemone still surviving)....

I am really puzzled..what went wrong? The fishes did eat and was swimming pretty lively over the weeknd and they just RIP at the same time...not to mention the high cost which I paid for the two sea horses ($70 bucks bot at Jireh Clementi)

Is it because of I have never cycle long enough for my tank? If so, how should I make sure that my water is stable enough before putting in the fishes?

Note: What you are seeing here...is already history..all fishes have R.I.P...:-(

Regards, Andy

Hi Andy,

Learning the hard way huh :eyebrow:

I went through the same thing before and I understand your feelings, besides losing money, you feel real bad having those beautiful fishes dying cos of you...

Why we cycle the tank; Livestock (LS) produces ammonia, urine and such, and ammonia is poisonous to them. Certain kind of bacteria breaks down ammonia to nitrite, which is also harmful to LS (weak buggers...) but luckily, there's another type of bacteria that breaks nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is not that harmful to the LS but there are other issues, like food for unwanted algae (not all algae is bad though)

So basically, by cycling the tank, you give it time to let the good bacteria grow. By using test kits (freaking expensive, IMO), you'll be able to know when is a good time to start adding LS. Ammonia and Nitrite should be 0 or near there and Nitrate as low as possible.

Reading your first post, 2 weeks may not be enough for the cycling to be done properly. Even if you had excellent conditions then, by adding LS in (so many and so fast), you are not giving the bacteria enough time to clear up the poisonous compounds.

Marine fish is very different from freshwater. You can't keep that many and you should not add so many at one time. This hobby takes patience, lots of it but it can be very rewarding if you succeed.

Good luck, have fun but do start reading, this forum and books from the library is a good start. You really don't want another beautiful fish to die for nothing right :rolleyes:

[Solo77]

Didnt know so manu ppl working learn Chinatown....hehehe....great....good idea to meet up ....lol

[Underwater]

i think bro kthc had explained it well. Simple to understand for new comers.

[raylinea]

Hi guys,

Thanks lot for your advice...in fact I have just upgraded to a 2FT Tank over the weekend. My cousin brought me to Pasir Ris Farmway for an orientation trip and indeed, it was an eye-opener for me, as a noob....

I bought 6 fishes but as of today, it only left with three...it seems that my anemone is the culprit to cause their death..or is it still water problem (which I bought salt water directly from the famr)? Haiz....

I also realise some fishes are tend to act like commando and they really "Cheong" for the food..and my purple fish seems to be bit slower..and since this morning, he is feeling not well and lying on the sand bed...i really wonder what went wrong...