Media for sump tank

[Valleyman]

Hi,

My new sump tank is about 2'x1'x1' with 4 compartments. Intend to keep the 4th compartment free for just the powerheads for main tank and chiller systems. What is the recommended filtration media for the other 3 compartments. Thinking of filling up :

1st compartment = lots of bio-balls on bio-mats

2nd compartment = coral chips (to control PH) on bio-mat

3rd compartment = activated carbon (to remove toxin & smell ?)

Is this setup ok ? My tank (4'x2'x2') will mainly be for soft corals+ some small fishes. Someone recommended to use substrate. What does it serves other than another media for wet bacteria to grow ? What about ceramic rings ? If my choice is not right, what is the proper media to use for each compartments ? Forgot to add that I intend to have bio-balls also in the overflow (in main tank) to cultivate dry bacteria. Many thanks

[Achilles Tang]

May I comment?

1. First comp w bioballs = fine. (helps reduce ammonia, nitrites. End result = nitrates)

2. corals chips to control PH = nonsense. Who told you that? Did you confuse that with them supposedly to be a calcium buffer? Well, that's nonsense too. For coral chips or sand to dissolve and release calcium ions, they have to be subjected to very low PH eg. 5 - 6. If your PH level can drop to that low, I think your livestock should already be all dead.

3. activated carbon to remove DOC/DOM = fine.

So you basically intend to use your sump to trap detritus and as a biological/mechanic filter.

Your bioballs in a wet/dry compartment will trap some detritus and when that decomposes, the end result is high nitrates. You have to find a way to deal with it eg. a DSB.

A coral chips DSB in a sump compartment that allows flowthru will end up a detritus trap over time.

ceramic rings are for canisters where they will need something to maximise the surface area for bacteria to colonise.

Bioballs in overflow does not cultivate dry bacteria (no such thing). Aerobic bacteria will be more like it.

I suggest that you read up more about the basics on reef-keeping as you appear very unsure about the right setup to make.

Hope that I have pointed you in the right direction but pls read as much as you can to help yourself improve in the hobby.

Best of luck!

AT

[Valleyman]

Thanks AT for yr comments,

Went to AquaTechnic and their sump setup consist just bio-balls and carbon. They take pain on the bio-ball and have good design on water distribution so that as much balls are wetted. This is to grow dry bacteria colonies ? If dry bacteria is not = aerobic, what is ? I will have a 2" DSB in the main tank. This will take care of the wet bacteria. What is DOC/DOM ?

So the recommendation is not to use coral chip and ceramic ring ? Thanks

[Tanzy]

Valleyman,

I think you are confused about the wet-dry filter. There are no such things as the wet bacteria and dry bacteria. The wet-dry refers to the trickling of water through the media. All the bacteria that grow in a wet-dry filter are aerobic.

DOC = Dissolved Organic Carbon. Basically any organic chemical that happens to be in the water.

2" of sand is far from a Deep sand bed. You will at least need to have >4" preferably 6".

I spoke to Aquatechnic before and they no nuts about modern reefkeeping. They think PO4 and Phosphate are different things! I think they got their 'stuff' from 80's Dupla manuals and have never really updated themselves.

[Achilles Tang]

Agree with Tanzy. AQT belongs to the old school of reef-keeping. Not staying that it doesn't work, it does but they have yet to move forward with the advances in the hobby.

One of our members tried his best to tell her that his nitrates was successfully reduced with a DSB but Alice of AQT didn't believe him.

Perhaps she strongly believes in the maxim that "Don't fix what's not broken".

[Valleyman]

Will increase my DSB coral sand depth. Read that aerobic bacteria is more efficient than anaerobic bacteria. Therefore, having a wet-dry filtering (water trickling) on bioballs in my overflow compartment will do the job ? Is this commonly practise ? Will forgo on coral chip and ceramic ring since they do not serve much purpose other than surface area for B colonies which I can cultivate using bio-mats. Regards

[Tanzy]

Aerobic bacteria and anaerobic bacteria serve different functions. Aerobic bacteria are for nitrification, where ammonia is converted to nitrite and then to nitrate, which is less harmful to fish and corals.

Anaerobic bacteria are for denitrification where nitrate is converted to nitrogen gas and then bubbled off into the atmosphere. It is a form of nitrogen export for the system.

[Valleyman]

Thanks Tanzy,

Now understand the true functions of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. They compliment each other as a solution.

[bawater]

had to dig up this thread cause i got a DSB question,

i'm going to transfer everything,re-setup in a different location in a 4x2x2 & sump 3x1.5x1.5.

Size will be slightly larger than now but i'm going for a DSB, so

Firstly, i have 20kg of river sand(quartz) in my storeroom unused(its sugar fine size)- i intend to use this as the bottom layer abt 1"(i also have some silica beach sand which i will mix here) & covered with No.1(maybe another 3" or more) & maybe a sprinkle of bigger pieces on top. this will be in the main tank.

My sump has a refugium area of 16"x18"x12"(water height).

-Here's the question: should i use back my old substrate(should be abt 5yrs old)? it has accumulated a ton of crap & i have watched rocks cycled into sand. The bed is very alive & worm tunnels can be seen,not to mention my scooter blenny eats off this plate everyday.

If i re-use it, should i wash it? its really damn dirty.

If i don't & i save the fauna, i'm 100% sure a diatom & cyano bloom will come within 2 weeks(i think the dormant cells are all there)not to mention the detrius settling everywhere.

Should i just go with new & sprinkle abt 3kg to jump start new substrate,or do i reuse everything raw.

There are pros & cons, someone pls?

[chanbi]

Bawater, i do not have enough such experience to comment but if u ask me, i will go for the 2nd option. Since u are getting a brand new tank/sump (ie. no rush), using new sand will be safer and having 3kg or so old sand should help to jump start much faster and the short duration is worth waiting and not worth taking the risk.

[bawater]

so i scrap the old. i mean i can kill it off.

[Achilles Tang]

had to dig up this thread cause i got a DSB question,

i'm going to transfer everything,re-setup in a different location in a 4x2x2 & sump 3x1.5x1.5.

Size will be slightly larger than now but i'm going for a DSB, so

Firstly, i have 20kg of river sand(quartz) in my storeroom unused(its sugar fine size)- i intend to use this as the bottom layer abt 1"(i also have some silica beach sand which i will mix here) & covered with No.1(maybe another 3" or more) & maybe a sprinkle of bigger pieces on top. this will be in the main tank.

My sump has a refugium area of 16"x18"x12"(water height).

-Here's the question: should i use back my old substrate(should be abt 5yrs old)? it has accumulated a ton of crap & i have watched rocks cycled into sand. The bed is very alive & worm tunnels can be seen,not to mention my scooter blenny eats off this plate everyday.

If i re-use it, should i wash it? its really damn dirty.

If i don't & i save the fauna, i'm 100% sure a diatom & cyano bloom will come within 2 weeks(i think the dormant cells are all there)not to mention the detrius settling everywhere.

Should i just go with new & sprinkle abt 3kg to jump start new substrate,or do i reuse everything raw.

There are pros & cons, someone pls?

Bawater,

Trust me... you don't want to bring over all your old DSB. It will stink a lot and what's at the bottom of a DSB is NOT what you want in your new tank.

Save some of the old sand... i mean the top 2". Dun dig too deep. You should retrieve some of your sand fauna to bring over.

Use that to seed your new sandbed.

Dun worry abt the bacteria/cyano bloom, it's unsightly but a natural phase to go thru...

AT

[Norvin Ng]

I would agree with all that says a DSB is the easiest way to control N03. I have a 4" DSB and my No3 been constant at around 5ppm the last 4 months since the tank was set up (> 10 small and medium fishes for a 65 gallon tank).

To not see the unsightly DSB, I just cover them up with nice looking sticker sheets that blends with my stand.

[Achilles Tang]

Norvin, that's what I did for my old tank too!

[wedgee]

Dun worry abt the bacteria/cyano bloom, it's unsightly but a natural phase to go thru...

Ooops here i am to ask for some help again AT, or anyone else; how long does the cyano bloom usually last? I re-did my 3ft and ensured most things went smoothly, but still got hit by a sand-based red slime bloom...

[Achilles Tang]

As long as there are enough nutrients to keep them going.

Water changes, good skimming, cutting down on feedings, light blackouts could help.

[bawater]

i just had a cyano bloom lasting abt 1 mth-Gone after using seachem phosguard,approx 2 bottles of 150g,stopped dry foods & 2 water changes,

Diatom blooms last half of that(this one is easy, just direct strong flow at it).

Thanks AT, was wondering if u used back your old sand.

[ZeRoC00l]

As long as there are enough nutrients to keep them going.

Water changes, good skimming, cutting down on feedings, light blackouts could help.

(borrow topic awhile, since we're talking abt cyno bloom)

I'm having cyno bloom now

Already cut down alot on feeding , and now trying with blackout.

Would like to know what's the rough maximum time for blackout without affecting the corals and what we have possibly living in our tank?

And may i know how much water change and frequency so as not to upset the boilogical system ! setup so far?

Thank you

[Tanzy]

3 days total darkness. Cover everything with black trashbag, then re-acclimatise to the light.