Bubber's Little Ocean

[Bubber]

Hi everyone! Welcome to my tank thread...

After reading some of u guys' marvellous tank showcase, I'm inspired to start a tank thread of my own as well. Though it's still a long way before my tank can reach u guys' standard, I'll keep trying...

Not exactly a good way to begin a new tank thread, but this is the current state of my tank...

[Bubber]

Yes, I'm restarting my tank...

Two years in the marine hobby but I'm still a noob in many sense, still learning things the hard way...

Nevertheless, hope u guys can give me some advices and comments about my tank.

Here's the tank details:

Tank Size : 4ft x 2ft x 2.3ft (12mm)

Sump Size : 2.5ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft (6mm)

Return Pump : Aquamedic OR6500 Pump

Skimmer : Deltec APF600

FR : TLF PhosBan Reactor 150 (ROWAphos)

Lighting : Hylux 150w MH + 2 x T8 (Blue)

Flow : Resun Wavemaker 15000

Chiller : Resun C650

Chiller Pump : Aquamedic OR2500 Pump

UV : Coralife Turbo Twist 6X (18w)

[Bubber]

Here's a brief history of my tank...

Started this 4 footer as a fowlr cos of my love for pygmy angels and also inexperience with corals. Due to lessons from previous disasters, I hypo 'all' my fish in a quarintine tank at least 1.5 mths before intro into my main tank...'all', but 4 fish...a PBT, a cleaner wrasse, a potter angel n my all time favourite AT...

Prior to intro, the 4 fish were conditioned by a LFS for abt a mth n showed no sign of spots...n silly me, being afraid to put the delicate AT n potter thru my usual QT routine, decided to put them straight into the main tank...

That's when all hell broke lose...AT n PBT start having ich, and ABT's black ich resurfaced after previously recovered in QT...In an attempt to save my dear AT, I hypo my main tank...

Soon, both ich were gone...n juz when I tot the nightmare was over, my blue tang started having 'white spots' that looked more like those 'stress spots' commonly found in Naso...it soon spread to most of the rest n I've to move all of them into the QT. Till date I still have no idea what it is or what's the cure...

I think the lesson learned is to stick to the QT routine and be very, very, very patient in adding new fish...

I'm currently running the tank with only sand and liverocks, also dosing AquaPharm Instant Bacteria Starter to rebuild the bb colony...Intend to let it run like that for at least another month to rebuild the bb colony n also get rid of any parasites left in the tank using the 'fishless' way...

Pls kindly advice if I'm doing anything wrong...Thx!!

[Bubber]

Here's a look at my tank before everything fell apart...

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc206/O...nt=P7180007.flv

[kareen]

I think maybe your previous collapse is due to too many tangs... especially the last 4 and one of them is AT. Prior to the four, u already had blue and naso tang... which both are likely "king of tank" candiates and the last four addition destroy the peaceful world...

If you intend to venture into reef world this time round... go slow on the fish. After the usual cycling, corals first.... leave there for months till u see coraline encrusted on rocks and little critters everywhere....

[LaW]

i have tried hypo my fishes for 2 months + before at 11-12ppt using refractormeter both in my qt and main tank.

but when i raise it back slowly.

ick still resurface.

now im starting to believe that the claim on hyposalinity weaken ick and not killing them totally is true.

i found this info on wetwebmedia.

[colinsoon]

all of which i am gonna say is from my own personal experience, which is from my current 3x1.5x2 ft tank. LS as follows:

1. PBT (4inch) -- intially 3inch

2. BT (4inch) -- initially 1inch

3. YT (4.5inch) -- initially 3inch

4. PT (4.5inch) -- initially 3 inch

5. sailfin (5 inch) -- initially 2.5inch

6. percula clown pair (1.5-2inch)

7. 5 x chromis

8. Strawberry dottyback (2cm diameter, 3inch long) -- its damn fat.

9. Damsel (1inch) -- oldest resident

10. longfin bannerfish (2inch)

total LS count: 15, for a 280L tank.

All of the occupants in my tank has been with me for at least 3 months. non of them are anything below mildly obese.

(1) So 1 thing we can definitely dispell is that, there is not so much as an overload of tangs in your 4fter system, as i already have 5 in mine, 1 tang for every 55L.

(2) ich is one thing that will always be present in tangs when u keep them. when white spots or patches appear on your fishes, its not the end of the world. as long as they are still fat and healthy or still eating, the best form of treatment is still to leave them alone. you never know that wat is causing them to develop the spots. it could be just normal stress by other tangs or actually dirt in e water getting trapped onto their scales. my tangs till now get white spots occasionally too, which i am never concerned, because all my tangs are almost a year old or older. non never came close to anything happen before (touch wood). leave them alone, maybe change a pail or 2 of water when u see something wrong. but my best advice is that they will heal themselves.

(3) i think personally that you should not hypo your tank or anything when ich appears. cos it will juz add stress to the environment. i dont think u wan me to put u in an even more hostile environment when u r sick. u will juz die faster, doesnt really help much.

(4) feeding of proper dietary. i came to realise, along with a few of my friends, if fishes start to turn into gluttons, they are basically indestructable. and having a complete range of food for them is important too. i am guilty of the fact that i only feed them Formula 2 flakes, and only that. i got frozen cubes on standby, just in case flakes run out. my babies (fishes) clear out 1 bottle every 18-20 days. thats how much they eat, and think bout the amount of shit they produce.

(5) nothing to do your with your equipment: your list of equipment is damn good. i only have a skimmer in my system, macro AS250. nothing else. and it doesnt skim anything much out. it sucks. but its keeping my LPS reef rather well, with minimal losses to corals.

when u get fishes, read up on them, ask around, before u get them. dun get more aggressive fishes and dump them into the tank first. anything else that goes in is gona get it bad. and really bad. know thy tangs, and they will live for u. reefing is about not doing anything constant to the system, but letting it stabilise. the stability of e tank is already 80percent of e battle won.

just my 2 cents. very long 2 cents though.

ps: i dont QT my fishes. its from the LFS, put over my tank, cut bag, and pour contents in.

[Gouldian]

Hi Thomas,

I believe the keyword to a healthy fishes is "Stress Free". I believe things will turn for the better soon.

HTH

[Bubber]

I think maybe your previous collapse is due to too many tangs... especially the last 4 and one of them is AT.  Prior to the four, u already had blue and naso tang... which both are likely "king of tank" candiates and the last four addition destroy the peaceful world...

If you intend to venture into reef world this time round... go slow on the fish.  After the usual cycling, corals first.... leave there for months till u see coraline encrusted on rocks and little critters everywhere....

Hi kareen, nice to hear from u again..

Thankfully, the v pretty lemonpeel that I got from u survived the tank crash n is currently recovering in my QT. It seems those fish that I got from fellow reefers r always the strongest. In fact, none died from disease infection..

I've to admit that I was overcome by my love for tangs..n though logic tells me that I shouldn't try to keep so many tangs in a fairly new tank..the side of me took a gamble n then hoped that I'll b able to keep many tangs like those established setups that I've seen in this forum..

I'll try to go really slowly this time round, n hopefully by going into corals, it can take my attention off those fish in the LFS.. Juz kidding, I know discipline n patience is still the key to success..

Btw since I still have some fish with me now in the QT, can the fish go in b4 the corals?

[Bubber]

i have tried hypo my fishes for 2 months + before at 11-12ppt using refractormeter both in my qt and main tank.

but when i raise it back slowly.

ick still resurface.

now im starting to believe that the claim on hyposalinity weaken ick and not killing them totally is true.

i found this info on wetwebmedia.

Hi LaW, thanx for sharing your experience on hypo with me.. For me, to b fair the hypo method hasn't let me down yet, n it has worked for me so far..

But recently I got a chance to learn from a senior reefer n his view is that hypo isn't exactly natural to marine fish, n putting them under such condition will only create more stress to them..

So I guess I'll be working towards removing the stress instead of removing the ich..

Juz a thought, maybe hypo worked for me cos during the QT period I pumped the fish up with lots of food, so improved their immune system n hence the ich can't really get into them..

[Bubber]

all of which i am gonna say is from my own personal experience, which is from my current 3x1.5x2 ft tank. LS as follows:

1. PBT (4inch) -- intially 3inch

2. BT (4inch) -- initially 1inch

3. YT (4.5inch) -- initially 3inch

4. PT (4.5inch) -- initially 3 inch

5. sailfin (5 inch) -- initially 2.5inch

6. percula clown pair (1.5-2inch)

7. 5 x chromis

8. Strawberry dottyback (2cm diameter, 3inch long) -- its damn fat.

9. Damsel (1inch) -- oldest resident

10. longfin bannerfish (2inch)

total LS count: 15, for a 280L tank.

All of the occupants in my tank has been with me for at least 3 months. non of them are anything below mildly obese.

(1) So 1 thing we can definitely dispell is that, there is not so much as an overload of tangs in your 4fter system, as i already have 5 in mine, 1 tang for every 55L.

(2) ich is one thing that will always be present in tangs when u keep them. when white spots or patches appear on your fishes, its not the end of the world. as long as they are still fat and healthy or still eating, the best form of treatment is still to leave them alone. you never know that wat is causing them to develop the spots. it could be just normal stress by other tangs or actually dirt in e water getting trapped onto their scales. my tangs till now get white spots occasionally too, which i am never concerned, because all my tangs are almost a year old or older. non never came close to anything happen before (touch wood). leave them alone, maybe change a pail or 2 of water when u see something wrong. but my best advice is that they will heal themselves.

(3) i think personally that you should not hypo your tank or anything when ich appears. cos it will juz add stress to the environment. i dont think u wan me to put u in an even more hostile environment when u r sick. u will juz die faster, doesnt really help much.

(4) feeding of proper dietary. i came to realise, along with a few of my friends, if fishes start to turn into gluttons, they are basically indestructable. and having a complete range of food for them is important too. i am guilty of the fact that i only feed them Formula 2 flakes, and only that. i got frozen cubes on standby, just in case flakes run out. my babies (fishes) clear out 1 bottle every 18-20 days. thats how much they eat, and think bout the amount of shit they produce.

(5) nothing to do your with your equipment: your list of equipment is damn good. i only have a skimmer in my system, macro AS250. nothing else. and it doesnt skim anything much out. it sucks. but its keeping my LPS reef rather well, with minimal losses to corals.

when u get fishes, read up on them, ask around, before u get them. dun get more aggressive fishes and dump them into the tank first. anything else that goes in is gona get it bad. and really bad. know thy tangs, and they will live for u. reefing is about not doing anything constant to the system, but letting it stabilise. the stability of e tank is already 80percent of e battle won.

just my 2 cents. very long 2 cents though.

ps: i dont QT my fishes. its from the LFS, put over my tank, cut bag, and pour contents in.

Hi colin, thank u v much for sharing your experience with me, I really appreciate it..

We share the same interest in tangs, but unlike u, I couldn't keep as many as tangs as I would like...I think the key reason could be that my tank wasn't as established as yours..

My experience with ich wasn't that good..during my previous tank crash I had some fish that was feeding v well but still succumbed to ich..that's y I always panic when I see spots n will try all means to remove them..but then again, your theory could be right, cos back then it could b the high NO3 caused by the heavy feeding that killed them.. (it's always hard to balance between the 2.. )

Though it seems hypo did work for me..I think I'll keep it in the freezer since most of u guys advised against it...maybe what really worked for me during my past QTs was the heavy feeding..

I've to agree, those gluttons that I had nv really poise any prob to me...all except the blue tang that started the mysterious disease which subsequently crashed my tank. In fact, the cause of it all could be due to the consistent harassment by my ABT on my blue tang..I nv bother initially cos I tot the blue tang that was with me for more than a yr should b strong enuff to withstand it..but with the prolong stress it developed some mysterious white spot that eventually killed it...

I like the way u put it : "...reefing is about not doing anything constant to the system, but letting it stabilise..."

I'll be working towards that for sure...

Bro care to share how u managed to keep your parameters like NO3 in check with all the heavy feeding? I can't seem to get a balance between the two n always end up feeding much less..

[Bubber]

Hi Thomas,

I believe the keyword to a healthy fishes is "Stress Free". I believe things will turn for the better soon.

HTH

Hi Gouldian,

A really big thank you to you..

After the fruitful visit to your place I think I'm more confident in getting things right this time round..

Yes I'll work towards a "stress free" environment for my fish n corals..

[kareen]

Btw since I still have some fish with me now in the QT, can the fish go in b4 the corals?

Well, how well equip is the QT? Is the tank able to provide the requirement for the long stay till your reef tank mature?

[Bubber]

I'm not sure if it's gd enuff for long term, but maybe u can help me judge:

- It's a bare 3ft tank (abt 200L) with a canister as the only filtration system (Currently only filter wool in the canister, but thinking of adding carbon)

- I also added 2 Seio pump (M620 & M1100) for water circulation..

- I'm keeping the lights on 24/7 cos they seem v stress everytime I off the light, probably cos no shelter (Gonna add a DIY shelter, currently waiting for the silicon to cure)

* I use those normal silicon, izzit safe for seawater?

Basically, that's it...

* Btw I have a weipro skimmer in my storeroom but not using cos of the heat generated by the Atman pump used to feed it..

[colinsoon]

I'm not sure if it's gd enuff for long term, but maybe u can help me judge:

- It's a bare 3ft tank (abt 200L) with a canister as the only filtration system (Currently only filter wool in the canister, but thinking of adding carbon)

- I also added 2 Seio pump (M620 & M1100) for water circulation..

- I'm keeping the lights on 24/7 cos they seem v stress everytime I off the light, probably cos no shelter (Gonna add a DIY shelter, currently waiting for the silicon to cure)

* I use those normal silicon, izzit safe for seawater?

Basically, that's it...

* Btw I have a weipro skimmer in my storeroom but not using cos of the heat generated by the Atman pump used to feed it..

i duno much bout QTs cos i nvr QT my fishes. my mum will skin me alive and collect my skin to cook roast suckling pig if i did intro another tank into my living room. but i do know is that juz have little shelters for them to hide in. something like containers turned sideways or pipes or tubes. something along those lines, eaiser for u to catch them in e future also.

having the lights on 24/7 creates more stress. its like u keep seeing the sun 24/7, you dun haf time to rest, and over time u r gonna develop something weird. i dunno. skin cancer maybe?

normal silicon is safe enough for seawater. i think its no harm getting a HOB skimmer like a prizm to run on e QT, since there is like no biological filtration to the QT, so e biowaste cant be removed effectively, hence creating another potential problem for your lil fishies...

oh bout my water parameters, i haven checked it since over a year ago. i dun even test my salinity anymore when i mix water. i know its 3 cups of salt for 1 corallife pail. i know as long as i see everything opening and my fishes eating, my water is fine. yep a lot of u people gonna flame me for doing so, but then, i am not a big fan of keeping NO3 to zero, cos i figured out after 2 crashes from my old tank is that, its not the NO3 that kills, but the first step of the ANN cycle. both of my crashes happened cos something too big died in a tank too small, making me lose a lot of fishies. i am a firm believer in patience and stability. of course there are downsides to having high NO3, but i am not seeing any in my tank now.

[kareen]

I'm not sure if it's gd enuff for long term, but maybe u can help me judge:

- It's a bare 3ft tank (abt 200L) with a canister as the only filtration system (Currently only filter wool in the canister, but thinking of adding carbon)

- I also added 2 Seio pump (M620 & M1100) for water circulation..

- I'm keeping the lights on 24/7 cos they seem v stress everytime I off the light, probably cos no shelter (Gonna add a DIY shelter, currently waiting for the silicon to cure)

* I use those normal silicon, izzit safe for seawater?

Basically, that's it...

* Btw I have a weipro skimmer in my storeroom but not using cos of the heat generated by the Atman pump used to feed it..

Do u have any corals in the QT? If no, take away the Seio to reduce heat xfer to water.

What is the turnover for the canister? Make sure there is enough O2... Also regular clean up for canister 'cos it will choke over time.... I will prefer those cheap overhead kind of biology filter than canister due to easier maintainance.

As long as temperature not above 30, should be alright for the fish....

Like what colinsoon said, do not on lights for 24 hours.... and pipes for fish to hid....

[Ah-lim]

I'm not sure if it's gd enuff for long term, but maybe u can help me judge:

- It's a bare 3ft tank (abt 200L) with a canister as the only filtration system (Currently only filter wool in the canister, but thinking of adding carbon)

- I also added 2 Seio pump (M620 & M1100) for water circulation..

- I'm keeping the lights on 24/7 cos they seem v stress everytime I off the light, probably cos no shelter (Gonna add a DIY shelter, currently waiting for the silicon to cure)

* I use those normal silicon, izzit safe for seawater?

Basically, that's it...

* Btw I have a weipro skimmer in my storeroom but not using cos of the heat generated by the Atman pump used to feed it..

Juz chip in my 2 cents.

I think ya QT tank is big enough ! 3 ft !

Juz to share, for structure, you could DIY some PVC tubings and make a mini block or something, regarding the lights, I guess once ya had some cover , its okay to off them.

I think ya can juz use a seio 1100 for flow. More than enough.

Since your tank is in the absence of biological filtration, probably, it can maintain by doing partial water change every 2 weeks. Since its a 3 ft.... shld not be a big issue, unless ya talking abt QT 5-6 fishes at 1 shot.

Some people prefer to add a simple surface skimmer, with some wools and a small bag of carbon in the QT tank.

To each preference.

[Bubber]

Juz brought back my AT from the LFS... Heart pain to c it so skinny now so tot I better bring it back so at least I can try to feed more n give it a less stress environment to recover..

A month ago I was so helpless in curing the mysterious disease so I sent all my affected fish to a LFS hoping they could cure them..seems like they can't n I also lost a few fish in the process...lucky my AT is still around..hope I can save it..

[Bubber]

i duno much bout QTs cos i nvr QT my fishes. my mum will skin me alive and collect my skin to cook roast suckling pig if i did intro another tank into my living room. but i do know is that juz have little shelters for them to hide in. something like containers turned sideways or pipes or tubes. something along those lines, eaiser for u to catch them in e future also.

having the lights on 24/7 creates more stress. its like u keep seeing the sun 24/7, you dun haf time to rest, and over time u r gonna develop something weird. i dunno. skin cancer maybe?

normal silicon is safe enough for seawater. i think its no harm getting a HOB skimmer like a prizm to run on e QT, since there is like no biological filtration to the QT, so e biowaste cant be removed effectively, hence creating another potential problem for your lil fishies...

oh bout my water parameters, i haven checked it since over a year ago. i dun even test my salinity anymore when i mix water. i know its 3 cups of salt for 1 corallife pail. i know as long as i see everything opening and my fishes eating, my water is fine. yep a lot of u people gonna flame me for doing so, but then, i am not a big fan of keeping NO3 to zero, cos i figured out after 2 crashes from my old tank is that, its not the NO3 that kills, but the first step of the ANN cycle. both of my crashes happened cos something too big died in a tank too small, making me lose a lot of fishies. i am a firm believer in patience and stability. of course there are downsides to having high NO3, but i am not seeing any in my tank now.

[Bubber]

Do u have any corals in the QT? If no, take away the Seio to reduce heat xfer to water.

What is the turnover for the canister? Make sure there is enough O2... Also regular clean up for canister 'cos it will choke over time.... I will prefer those cheap overhead kind of biology filter than canister due to easier maintainance.

As long as temperature not above 30, should be alright for the fish....

Like what colinsoon said, do not on lights for 24 hours.... and pipes for fish to hid....

[Bubber]

Juz chip in my 2 cents.

I think ya QT tank is big enough ! 3 ft !

Juz to share, for structure, you could DIY some PVC tubings and make a mini block or something, regarding the lights, I guess once ya had some cover , its okay to off them.

I think ya can juz use a seio 1100 for flow. More than enough.

Since your tank is in the absence of biological filtration, probably, it can maintain by doing partial water change every 2 weeks. Since its a 3 ft.... shld not be a big issue, unless ya talking abt QT 5-6 fishes at 1 shot.

Some people prefer to add a simple surface skimmer, with some wools and a small bag of carbon in the QT tank.

To each preference.

[Bubber]

Oh ya, forgot to add..I juz bought two cleaner shrimps as suggested by that LFS..hopefully they can remove the parasites from my fish...

[colinsoon]

shrimps are the most susceptable to change in water parameters, so make sure u dun shock them. i had shrimps that stayed wif me for 9 months, laid eggs countless times, i also had shrimps that died for no reason.

[Bubber]

I used the dripping method to slowly acclimatise them, so guess I din shock them much..but I myself got a scare when my longnose hawk got v excited when I intro the shrimps..I quickly pour in lots of food to distract him n thankfully, it worked..

[Bubber]

Woke up today to find my AT still chasing my golden butterfly since last nite..not sure y since they r of totally different shape n color, maybe the AT is juz trying to protect his territory (the DIY shelter) ..but anyway, I tried the "mirror trick" taught by Henry n it worked once again..