cyano headache!!!

[spaceman]

i hate cyano.. i hate the treatment process even more!

A very nice reefer just gave a very nice piece of star polyps but i worry my cyano outbreak will blanket it and kill it

so...

dump some UltraLife Red Slime Algae to wipe out the red slime

skimmer turn off for a day

oxygen go haywire?? fish start to behave breathless. YT going gone

Turn on Skimmer!!!

release a cloud of micro air bubbles into my fish tank!! (expected)

now corals start to suffer.. start releasing their zooxanthellae massively!!!

Tried to reduce air bubbles. Skimmer overflow!??!?!!!

Run out of solution.. hope my tank and my YT will survive the night...

Anyone has the similar experience using UltraLife Red Slime Algae??

[reeftask]

i hate cyano.. i hate the treatment process even more!

A very nice reefer just gave a very nice piece of star polyps but i worry my cyano outbreak will blanket it and kill it

so...

dump some UltraLife Red Slime Algae to wipe out the red slime

skimmer turn off for a day

oxygen go haywire??  fish start to behave breathless.  YT going gone

Turn on Skimmer!!!

release a cloud of micro air bubbles into my fish tank!! (expected)

now corals start to suffer.. start releasing their zooxanthellae massively!!!

Tried to reduce air bubbles.  Skimmer overflow!??!?!!!

Run out of solution..  hope my tank and my YT will survive the night...    

Anyone has the similar experience using UltraLife Red Slime Algae??

The main problem starts with your Live rock. They are new or too little Live rock. You should solve the first problem and not adding another problem. Slime algae will kill off your star polyps.

There is no reef safe anti-slime algae liquids in market yet. Turning off the skimmer doesnt mean no air. Fishes are suffering from your additive. Solution is change water and hopes corals can survive thru this crisis. Fishes usually after changing water can survive easily. All I can advise is there is no short cut in marine.

[reeftask]

Just to let you know, Hermits dont eat diatoms. They will wipe away and not eating. If the place has no algae, they wont bother to go near to clean. Only way is to get your tank season after time or get more old LR according to min 1kg/gallon.

[kareen]

My advise to you is:

1) Pay attention to the position of wavemaker to ensure little or no dead spot

2) Change water

3) Control your nutrient level

4) Add carbon to absord the residual red slime chemical

5) Turn on the usual equipments running in the tank

6) Last but not least, the most important one : LET NATURE DO THE JOB and recreate the balance for u...

Meanwhile, do not add any corals or fish.

Take this lesson as learning experience.... I think u r pretty green in this area...

[VanDeam]

Just to let you know, Hermits dont eat diatoms. They will wipe away and not eating. If the place has no algae, they wont bother to go near to clean. Only way is to get your tank season after time or get more old LR according to min 1kg/gallon.

In response :

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aboutjani...a/aa043099n.htm

quoted from above .

"The Scarlet Hermit Crab (Paguristes cadenanti) is one of the most popular hermits with reef keepers, because of its colorful appearance, and because it will eat all kinds of algae, such as red, green and brown slimes, as well as green hair algae. "

Quoted from

http://www.aquacon.com/crabs.html

:"Blue Leg's take care of diatoms, hair algae, and red slime too!! Dwarf Blue Leg hermit crabs are one of the most popular scavengers in the aquarium trade. Known for their small size, beautiful colors and excellent reef combatibility, they are able to reach tight crevices and polish off the detritus and algae that bigger inverts cannot get to. "

i mean alot of site say alot of things , but personal experience from my 4ft cube cycling , i know they did the job at least my batch , hermits will turn killer only when they cant change shells , no food etc . applies to all animal .

But for ur problem this is a recommended solution :

Outbreaks can be sudden and severe, and damaging to corals. Siphon it off, reduce photoperiod temporarily, reduce trace element additions, and crank your pH to 8.6. the pH must be maintained high continuously for it to work.

but if u have corals u might opt to remove them or employ other methods like employing silicate or po4 control media .

cheers

just my 2cent

[loster]

hi i am using 3 days without lights method to combat cyno. it seems to be very effective for me. no side effect for both corals and fishes. i use this method once every two months

check out the thread in RC:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...5&pagenumber=34

anyway, this method is a short turn solution...just like the chemical you used. you got to control the source of cyno

[Rogerttt]

so bro you switch off everything for 3 days on short? or switch off slowly by hour an hour?

[shiok]

My advise to you is:

1) Pay attention to the position of wavemaker to ensure little or no dead spot

2) Change water

3) Control your nutrient level

4) Add carbon to absord the residual red slime chemical

5) Turn on the usual equipments running in the tank

6) Last but not least, the most important one : LET NATURE DO THE JOB and recreate the balance for u...

Meanwhile, do not add any corals or fish.

Take this lesson as learning experience.... I think u r pretty green in this area...

totally agreed with Kareen. Used to suffer the same cyano problem but used the same method as mention by Kareen & it's solved. Though i dont know whether if it's due to me adding a FR?

[loster]

so bro you switch off everything for 3 days on short? or switch off slowly by hour an hour?

i off all my lights (total off) for 3 days once in two months now. there are some natural light come from my living room. anyway, there is no ill effect on fish and corals. although i don't keep much of the corals now... expect clams and fishes. that also save some electricity from the lights + chiller

what happened... i didn't do any water change for 6 months...(was real busy) i don't even remember when was my last change of the phos media and carbon... i just dose ozone to keep my tank water clear... so, cyno outbreak was real bad... it covered every part of my LR.

fed up... off all lights for 2-3days for the 1st time... did a large water changed.. changed phos and carbon...

the following week onward for next couple of months... i off all lights once every two week... water change every week... do this till i have all cyno clear from the LR... then i maintain my light off once every two months...

do small water change weekly.. keep track of changing phos and carbon

[reeftask]

In response :

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aboutjani...a/aa043099n.htm

quoted from above .

"The Scarlet Hermit Crab (Paguristes cadenanti) is one of the most popular hermits with reef keepers, because of its colorful appearance, and because it will eat all kinds of algae, such as red, green and brown slimes, as well as green hair algae. "

Quoted from

http://www.aquacon.com/crabs.html

:"Blue Leg's take care of diatoms, hair algae, and red slime too!! Dwarf Blue Leg hermit crabs are one of the most popular scavengers in the aquarium trade. Known for their small size, beautiful colors and excellent reef combatibility, they are able to reach tight crevices and polish off the detritus and algae that bigger inverts cannot get to. "

i mean alot of site say alot of things , but personal experience from my 4ft cube cycling , i know they did the job at least my batch , hermits will turn killer only when they cant change shells , no food etc . applies to all animal .

But for ur problem this is a recommended solution :

Outbreaks can be sudden and severe, and damaging to corals. Siphon it off, reduce photoperiod temporarily, reduce trace element additions, and crank your pH to 8.6. the pH must be maintained high continuously for it to work.

but if u have corals u might opt to remove them or employ other methods like employing silicate or po4 control media .

cheers

just my 2cent

Hermits will eat meat and are caught right handed by many reefers. Some sites indicates that too. They will eat snails even they dont need to change shells and still have plenty algaes to eat.

Some hermits may eat slime algae but not confirmed all 100% will eat slime. Some sites said wont. A friend of mine recently bought some hermits and prooven they just wipe away the slime algaes and eat the food below these slime algae. They dont even bother to eat the slime.

Well Van deam, I know you wanna sell your shipment of hermits but you have to be fair and truthful. BTW your price is not cheap, not even half price of LFS as what you sms, but ex than LFS. Pls dont repeat your history. Sorry if Im being too straight but I dont recon your business method.

Since you show something from this site, this site also tells you this is a fact:

http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blan...afe_inverts.htm

Cranking your pH to 8.6 wont solve the problem. You have to solve the first problem and not try anything else to create another problem.

The problem lies with the LR. I agree with Kareen, cycle first before adding fish and corals. But I think Spaceman wont do that. He is too impatience.

Black out for 3 days wont work.

I have a friend who bought dead rocks from a reefer 4 yrs ago. He places this tank in his workshop. He cycled this tank for 1 month before adding fish. Then he install lighting and the nightmare started. The tank started to have slime algaes. Luckily he has no corals. So after cycle with 5 fishes for 9 months plus, the slime algae starts to go off and stop growing. He has Skimmer and carbon all the time. His tank is high flow too. I met another reefer in SRC and he talked about his story. This guy bought some LR from some reefer and went shopping instead of straight home. He had lots of die-off and luckily not too bad, he manage solve this problem within 3-4 months cycling with fishes. He also told me black out for few weeks are useless. You have to black out until the bacteria grow back.

To what my experience, cyano problems comes from the LR. Not enough bacterias to handle that much die off. Die-offs releases nutrients. So if the LR has little die-off, it will be good after a while. If the LR is totally crap, you will need months. Had seen some ppl uses some ways to speed up this process by adding old matured LR.

Well I only can advise and whether what other ppl want to brag, its their wishes.

[spaceman]

Thanks everyone for their contribution to the Cyano problem debate!

My original intent of my post was just asking:

"Anyone has the similar experience using UltraLife Red Slime Algae??"

haha.. didn't expect the discussion to divert away!

[loster]

hahaha... ya... got it carry away i just wanna put my last word here... every problem in the reefing... there are many reasons and ideas and experienced to resolve it. just to keep our open for other possibility by not jump into conclusion that this is THE one and THE only way for solution.

anyway, my tank has been running for almost 4 years now... kept sps with zeovit system and run very, very, very low nutrients too keep the colour of the sps shine brightly

i had a very good LR and there are big with light in weight type. used it for 2 years++ with my zeovit system. never have any cyno or HA problem when i used it. in fact, i never have any cyno problem in my reefing year till lately.

now, due to busy in work... sold all my sps and corals... stop zeovit system... don't have time to do any water change. don't have time to replace my tiny bag of phos media (never use any phos reactor) feed a lot to my big angel fishes till nutrients too high (even though i run with "super oversize deltec skimmer + ozone) and had a terrible cyno outbreak for the first time in my reefing experience. it covered not just on the LR... it was on the back of the tank wall and some on the body of my t24 tunze (my tank is BB... so, i am still running with high flow in my 3ft tank) and on the floor of my tank.

so... i did what i need to do. get rid of the main source for cyno. now, back to normal. no cyno, with no chemical use. the challeng for me now is to keep the nutrients in my tank low with a lot of big fishes + a lot of feeding to keep them from attacking on my clams

[RockyBoy]

Thanks everyone for their contribution to the Cyano problem debate!

My original intent of my post was just asking:

"Anyone has the similar experience using UltraLife Red Slime Algae??"

haha..  didn't expect the discussion to divert away!

Yes, I have problems when using that stuff. Killed some of my sps and my fishes went crazy. I did a water change and it's ok already after a few days. May be I'm unlucky to use this... .. BTW.. is cyno = Red slime?

[kareen]

So... when such thing happen, one must write something in forum to inform fellow reefers else the same thing will happen over and over again... killing more corals without solving the problem.

[spaceman] Well, discussions lead to more ideas.... more ideas lead to better decision making....

[Loster] I may be wrong but from what I read, cyano commonly appear in dead spot area.... Sometimes, one may have a high flow in tank but still can't warrant no dead spot due to placement decision of liverocks/wavemaker, etc....

It may worth the effort to give the wavemakers in your tank a good clean up to ensure it optimum functionality... and a little rowaphos resins and see how things goes from there.

[reeftask]

So... when such thing happen, one must write something in forum to inform fellow reefers else the same thing will happen over and over again... killing more corals without solving the problem.

[spaceman] Well, discussions lead to more ideas.... more ideas lead to better decision making....

[Loster] I may be wrong but from what I read, cyano commonly appear in dead spot area.... Sometimes, one may have a high flow in tank but still can't warrant no dead spot due to placement decision of liverocks/wavemaker, etc....

It may worth the effort to give the wavemakers in your tank a good clean up to ensure it optimum functionality... and a little rowaphos resins and see how things goes from there.

good idea. kareen can help to write this poem like shakespeare?

[loster]

[Loster] I may be wrong but from what I read, cyano commonly appear in dead spot area.... Sometimes, one may have a high flow in tank but still can't warrant no dead spot due to placement decision of liverocks/wavemaker, etc....

It may worth the effort to give the wavemakers in your tank a good clean up to ensure it optimum functionality... and a little rowaphos resins and see how things goes from there.

hahaha... my tank only 3ft... i am running with TS24 tunze + three other wave pumps + two returns. the cyno still able to covered those at the high flow area that's was "power"

don't worry... no more cyno in my tank now run very low nurtients now

[angelfishlover]

Uhmm may i noe what is ur po4???I had a bad experience wif cyano too and discovered po4 was the problem.Gt skimmer sure mus bring down ur po4 wat.Or currently ur tank is overstocked and ur skimmer cannot take it.

[nakazoru]

Uhmm may i noe what is ur po4???I had a bad experience wif cyano too and discovered po4 was the problem.Gt skimmer sure mus bring down ur po4 wat.Or currently ur tank is overstocked and ur skimmer cannot take it.

Actually Cyano is more related to nutrients in the water than PO4. Even one uses Rowa, removing PO4 to none detectable. You will still get Cyano. Chances is that PO4 is high because of excessive feeding, under-skimming, which also meant nutrient is high.

Cyano bloom with light with presence of nutrients. Once it bloom it is difficult to eradicate, unless you uses antibiotics. They will be gone in 2 days. If you have the patient, go the hard way as below:

1. Underfeed, meaning feed moderate, dun feed beyond what your fish can take.

2. shorten the light cycle. Some off for 3 days.

3. Improve the fitration, or better skimmer.

[reeftask]

Actually Cyano is more related to nutrients in the water than PO4. Even one uses Rowa, removing PO4 to none detectable. You will still get Cyano. Chances is that PO4 is high because of excessive feeding, under-skimming, which also meant nutrient is high.

Cyano bloom with light with presence of nutrients. Once it bloom it is difficult to eradicate, unless you uses antibiotics. They will be gone in 2 days. If you have the patient, go the hard way as below:

1. Underfeed, meaning feed moderate, dun feed beyond what your fish can take.

2. shorten the light cycle. Some off for 3 days.

3. Improve the fitration, or better skimmer.

yeah, agree anti-biotics too.

[nakazoru]

Thanks everyone for their contribution to the Cyano problem debate!

My original intent of my post was just asking:

"Anyone has the similar experience using UltraLife Red Slime Algae??"

haha.. didn't expect the discussion to divert away!

Sorry that I missed this qn..

No experience like yours, but the symtoms are similar.

My experence like this:

1. Dose Red Slime Removal as recommended. Maybe a bit less to play safe. Off Skimmer.

2. Fishes experience short breathed, coral retracted becos of Ph changes. Say my prayers.

3. I always observe the copepodes in the sump tank for the stability of the tank. If they are there and moving, everything should be OK.

4. Waited 2 days, cynaobacteria retreated, with faint trace left.

5. Fishes seems all right, so I brave the it to dose another round for 2 days.

6. Bang!!! All gone.

7. Start Skimmer for 2 days

8. 30% Water change

9. Add Carbon.

Bye bye Cyano.

Bear in mind that Cyanobacteria still in sand and LR, remaining dormant.. Nutrients bloom, they come back with vengence but only some >1yr. Maybe from new addition also.

[reeftask]

Sorry that I missed this qn..

No experience like yours, but the symtoms are similar.

My experence like this:

1. Dose Red Slime Removal as recommended. Maybe a bit less to play safe. Off Skimmer.

2. Fishes experience short breathed, coral retracted becos of Ph changes. Say my prayers.

3. I always observe the copepodes in the sump tank for the stability of the tank. If they are there and moving, everything should be OK.

4. Waited 2 days, cynaobacteria retreated, with faint trace left.

5. Fishes seems all right, so I brave the it to dose another round for 2 days.

6. Bang!!! All gone.

7. Start Skimmer for 2 days

8. 30% Water change

9. Add Carbon.

Bye bye Cyano.

Bear in mind that Cyanobacteria still in sand and LR, remaining dormant.. Nutrients bloom, they come back with vengence but only some >1yr. Maybe from new addition also.

that means a time bomb. After we have all those corals and one day suddenly blow up. But if the tank flow rate is good and maintained properly for few years, they will be gone after tank is stable.

[spaceman]

Sorry that I missed this qn..

No experience like yours, but the symtoms are similar.

My experence like this:

1. Dose Red Slime Removal as recommended. Maybe a bit less to play safe. Off Skimmer.

2. Fishes experience short breathed, coral retracted becos of Ph changes. Say my prayers.

3. I always observe the copepodes in the sump tank for the stability of the tank. If they are there and moving, everything should be OK.

4. Waited 2 days, cynaobacteria retreated, with faint trace left.

5. Fishes seems all right, so I brave the it to dose another round for 2 days.

6. Bang!!! All gone.

7. Start Skimmer for 2 days

8. 30% Water change

9. Add Carbon.

Bye bye Cyano.

Bear in mind that Cyanobacteria still in sand and LR, remaining dormant.. Nutrients bloom, they come back with vengence but only some >1yr. Maybe from new addition also.

hi nakazoru

Thanks for your feedback!!!!

Anyway to share my experience.

For people who go for lights off to combat Cyano. Please don't use it if you have anemone in your tank! i am sure you don't want to risk your anemone to start running around in your fish tank!!

[chercm]

hi nakazoru

Thanks for your feedback!!!!

Anyway to share my experience.

For people who go for lights off to combat Cyano. Please don't use it if you have anemone in your tank! i am sure you don't want to risk your anemone to start running around in your fish tank!!

i have tried it but my anemone does not run around at all

[reeftask]

i have tried it but my anemone does not run around at all

Yeah I believe. When that area is beside the sunlight ray from window.

[spaceman]

i have tried it but my anemone does not run around at all

wah you lucky!

oh my anemone decided to uproot and shift to a higher spot after the 2nd day of lights off!