Starting a FOWLR tank

[NDC]

Hi,

I would like to convert my current 3ft planted tank to a fish only with live rock marine tank. It will only be a simple setup as i do not intent to venture into corals as yet.

After reading thru the forum, below is my basic understanding. Please advice if it is correct.

Basic equipment:

Tank (from current planted tank)

Filter (can i use internal filter?)

lighting

power head (Make current)

overhead fan (cool down the temp)

place sand and put in water (from mixing distilled water with sea salt).

Let it cycle for 10 days before adding live rocks.

Cycle again for 3 days before adding fishes.

Is there anything i missed out?

I read somewhere that if i am just keeping a few fishes and live rocks only i do not need to use a skimmer.

Please advice.

Thank you.

Cheers!

Andy

[Gouldian]

Hi Andy,

Welcome to the forum, I believe you have most of the things in order.

There is not hard and fast rule in marine just as there isn't in planted too.

A tank without a skimmer will have to relay heavily of Live Rock and Live Sand to convert Ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrates. Thus it needs to be lightly stock or have extra area/s for LR or LS such as large refugium/s.

Most of us prefer to have skimmer is because:

1) Effectively removes dissolves organic carbon (DOC)

2) Provides addition aeration - stabalize pH and less stressful to fishes

3) Do not have space for large refugiums that houses LR and LS for the effective removal of organic waste

4) Able to keep more livestocks

5) Able to keep more delicate fishes / interverts

PS: The key to any hobby is the same - Patience - Take your time to explore and fine tune your methods before rushing to the shops.

HTH

[NDC]

Hi Gouldian,

Thank you for your help.

So i will set up my tank with sand on the bottom, top up with water and then put a internal filter and skimmer. Let it cycle for 10 days then add in life rocks.

Add in fishes after cycling for another 3 days after live rock is placed in tank.

I do not want to kill those fishes that's why i wish to know if my method is correct before proceeding. And also due to my low budget, i will only but those equipment that are very necessary.

[Gouldian]

Hi Gouldian,

Thank you for your help.

So i will set up my tank with sand on the bottom, top up with water and then put a internal filter and skimmer. Let it cycle for 10 days then add in life rocks.

Add in fishes after cycling for another 3 days after live rock is placed in tank.

I do not want to kill those fishes that's why i wish to know if my method is correct before proceeding. And also due to my low budget, i will only but those equipment that are very necessary.

Hi Andy,

The more accurate method is to test for Ammonia and Nitrite.

After introducing some LS and LR, your tank will begin its cycling process. Most reefers will test the water for a spike in Ammonia then Nitrite. Once your tank Ammonia and Nitrite is 0, you may begin adding your livestock/s.

However, do note that your tank is still young and the beneficial bacteria may still not fully occupy every inch of your tank and thus may not be able to handle the influx of too many livestosks. Thus stock moderately and continue your tests.

In fact, some reefers in Europe and US will cycle their tank for longer period than we Asians do.

HTH

[Gouldian]

Maybe you could let us know the livestocks you intend to keep so that we may provide our 2 cents so as to avoid getting fishes not suitable for your tank.

Also, as per your planted experience, selecting a healthy livestock that is eating and active is of key importance.

HTH

[shiok]

Hi,

I would like to convert my current 3ft planted tank to a fish only with live rock marine tank. It will only be a simple setup as i do not intent to venture into corals as yet.

After reading thru the forum, below is my basic understanding. Please advice if it is correct.

Basic equipment:

Tank (from current planted tank)

Filter (can i use internal filter?)

lighting

power head (Make current)

overhead fan (cool down the temp)

place sand and put in water (from mixing distilled water with sea salt).

Let it cycle for 10 days before adding live rocks.

Cycle again for 3 days before adding fishes.

Is there anything i missed out?

I read somewhere that if i am just keeping a few fishes and live rocks only i do not need to use a skimmer.

Please advice.

Thank you.

Cheers!

Andy

I've cycle my rock with the sand for a month before adding fishes. Becos there's bound to have some die off from the rock initially, and also it will allow the beneficial bacteria to take place.

I used to think that skimmer and FR is not important too, till my sand bed is covered with cyano and my rock got unwanted algea.

[NDC]

Hi Gouldian,

Thank you for your fast response.

I may sound stupid because i do not know the names of the fishes i wanted to keep.

I intent to keep about 6 small fishes plus maybe a shrimp/crab.

Is it possible?

maybe "nemo", a white fish with white stripes and pink/purple fishes.

Hi Shiok,

Thank you for telling me your experience.

By the way.. what is FR??

so now my process should be

Put sand in, add water, hook up filter and skimmer and cycle for 10 days.

add in live rock and begin cycling and test for ammonia and nitrate before adding live stocks.

Do i add in the sand and rocks separately or can i add it in together?

Thank you.

[NDC]

Hi guys,

I just read from another thread.

you can add in the live rocks immediatly after you have the water in your tank. the issue is more to do with the live rocks. if the live rocks are properly cured, they will contain little die-offs from transportation, and not add unwanted nutrients to your tank. if they are not properly cured, then stuff that has died within the rocks during transit will decompose in your tank.

either way, cycling should begin after you add your rocks as most of the bacteria you wish to seed a tank with will come from the rocks and seawater together. Leave the rocks and water with everything running without light for a week, and then check your parameters. if theres nothing amiss, that is, no high nitrate levels, youll be good to go, and can start adding livestock. though do try to do this slowly. your tank will take time to meet the bioload that it has to deal with so adding alot of fish at one time may not be a good idea.

So that means i will setup everything and than measure for ammonia n nitrate before adding live stocks.

Do i need anything else beside the below?

. Tank

. light

. sand

. Live rocks

. Internal filter

. light

. skimmer

any special media for filter needed??

[Gouldian]

In the initial stage, always test for Ammonia (NH3) and Nitrite (NO2) to determine when you can add your first livestock.

After which test again for your next addition so on and so for.

Its difficult to have Nitrate (NO3) reading at 0 without help of the more advance equipments and media.

It is always good to read about the fishes that you wanted to keep especially when you are have a smaller room for error due to your set-up. Look for the following information to decide whether the fish is suitable for you:

1) Whether its a hardy fish recommended for beginner

2) Whether its suitable for community set-up or species only tank

3) What is its total length

4) What does it eat

5) What is its optimum parameters (Reef, Coastal or Trans-oceanic)

Remember, ability to keep VS optimum condition are entirely different.

[adrianlau]

A general rule of thumb is to cycle for 1 month. If you want to add fish to help the cycling process, I recommend 2 freshwater molly, even those meant as feeder fish. They will survive in saltwater.

Interested to know what internal filter you intend to use.

[reeftask]

Skimmer is advised. Live Rocks 1kg/gallon minimum is advised too. Both are different functions. If no skimmer, Live Rock cant help you to get rid of those proteins. Only carbon will but they get rid of minerals and vitamins too.

Better to read more on the internet as the professionals there will have better accurate informations.

[NDC]

Thank you all for your kind help.

Adrian, please let me go back and check on the brand.

Thanks Gouldian, almost forget about their natural habitat and if they will fight among each other. Do you have any simple kit to recommend for doing those test?

One of my friend told me i would need some additives to be added to the tank for the live rock. Is it true?

Do i need to add any fert/additive like adding fert to planted tanks?

2 more stupid question from me.

What is live sand? i thought we can just get the sands from shops selling marine fishes/equipment?

How to i tell if the live rocks are cured or not? i read that we must smell them, what smell do i look out for?

So sorry but i am more of a visual person so i need more detailed explanation before i can understand.

Thank you

Cheers!

[shiok]

Sorry for the late reply, FR = Fluidised Reactors. It is used to hold the Phosphate Adsorption Media (PAM) which was developed for the removal of phosphate (PO4), the main cause of algae problems.

As for your Live sand question, you can refer to this

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...topic=48571&hl=

[Gouldian]

Thank  you all for your kind help.

Adrian, please let me go back and check on the brand.

Thanks Gouldian, almost forget about their natural habitat and if they will fight among each other. Do you have any simple kit to recommend for doing those test?

One of my friend told me i would need some additives to be added to the tank for the live rock. Is it true?

Do i need to add any fert/additive  like adding fert to planted tanks?

2 more stupid question from me.

What is live sand? i thought we can just get the sands from shops selling marine fishes/equipment?

How to i tell if the live rocks are cured or not? i read that we must smell them, what smell do i look out for?

So sorry but i am more of a visual person so i need more detailed explanation before i can understand.

Thank you

Cheers!

Hi Andy,

Just like planted, if we chose to keep Anubias sp., little fertiliser, lights, water quality is needed VS if we intend to keep Riccia sp.

The most common additives use for basic set-up like yours will be:

1) Kalkwasser - To maintain Calcium and Alkalinity

2) Calcium and kH buffers - Alternative for reefers who do not like Kalkwasser

If you dose either of the above as per instructions, your Coraline Algae will eventually grows on your LR making them purplish pink. I guess this could be the addditives your friend is refering.

Live sand is basically sands that have beneficial bacteria harbouring in them. Most reefers will just grab a handful of sand from a established tank to seed their sand bought from the shop. There are also alternatives such as buying commercially prepared Live Sand but these are more expensive.

Live rock will usually smell saltish just like the ocean, dead rock will smell almost similar too. Its the dying rocks that stink! IMHO, I usually chose rocks that is free from any sponge, algae or unidentified mess attaching on them. Good quality LR are also free from 'dust' like particles settling on the surface and should be purplish pink due to coraline algae growth.

Like me know if you need further assistance.

[NDC]

thank you everyone

now i get a clearer picture instead of just reading through the materials on the web.

i know now to smell for good clean rocks

let me go though my list and if i have any questions i will come and bother all you si fu again ::

[Gouldian]

Btw bro,

Just noticed that you do not have a Refractometer as your basic equipment. IMHO, I think a good refractometer (around $60) is a worthwhile investment to ensure accurate salinity. You can also look out from the Pasar Malam section for 2nd hands ones.

[angelfishlover]

If budget is low go for floating glass hydrometer.Hah you are new i also started marine around July now got Large Polyped Stony corals in it already.I skipped zoanthids and mushroom corals.

Don't buy swing arm hydrometer cause i stupidly follow marine books and the swing arm hydrometer won't tell you the actual reading.I guess you dun nid that much of calcium cause you dun take care of hard corals.

Salt brand i would actually reccommend Marine Environment.Go to PETMART and ask for that brand.BTW ur skimmer should be twice or thrice the amount of water in ur tank.Your tank i will guess is 200 litres so get those skimmer that skim for 400 or 600 litres.Hmm ur Skimmer i would reccommend RedSea Prizm skimmer.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy FOWLRing.

[NDC]

I hope to be able to start soon..

so my shopping list would be

refractometer / hydrometer

skimmer

sand

live rocks

salt

additive : kalkwesser

Think maybe my current can't hold these weights, maybe have to get a new tank as well. maybe get a IOS tank

Think the budget is getting higher and higher, as i discovered more and more items to buy, may have to delay my project as have to save up and also do more research.

But i'm glad to have found these website and thank you guys so much for your help. Otherwise i would have killed alot of innocent lifes..

[tijou]

Bro,for salt, I recommend you to buy "Tropic Marine". It comes in a light blue colour box. No regrets.

[angelfishlover]

Ahh dun forget about test kits.

[shiok]

if you are serious about reefing then get a refractometer (maybe a second hand one) rather then a hydrometer. Then need not upgrade anymore.

[NDC]

Thanks guys for your kind help and advice..

especially to Gouldian.. he has being a great help!!

Cheers!!

[NDC]

Oopps... forgot to ask..

where is a good place for me to do my shopping??

i stay in the north

[Gouldian]

Thanks guys for your kind help and advice..

especially to Gouldian.. he has being a great help!!

Cheers!!

Hi Bro,

Thanks for your compliments which I do not deserved. I was just showing you the kindness that was showered upon me by my seniors when I first started.

All the best to your set-up.

Let me know when you are swinging by Punggol Central.

[reeftask]

Oopps... forgot to ask..

where is a good place for me to do my shopping??

i stay in the north

there is a LFS in Yishun and Jln Kayu.