Anyone can recommend a return Pump with low watts

[klim]

Hi,

I would like to know what pump can go above 5000L/Hrs and running at low wattage.

I know Hailea 6550 can provide 6000l/hr but had a wattage of 200 and it would be costly to run in a long term.

Please kindly advise.

Thanks.

[thedidavid]

Hi,

I would like to know what pump can go above 5000L/Hrs and running at low wattage.

I know Hailea 6550 can provide 6000l/hr but had a wattage of 200 and it would be costly to run in a long term.

Please kindly advise.

Thanks.

Here bro...only 48W for 5 m3/hr pump impressive....

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...topic=63132&hl=

next to it is aquabee pump......

[klim]

thanks david....I saw it but it is expensive.

trying to see in between as budget is not too high. Pocket empty liao after all the entertainment with friends...sianz

[[V]tEc]

but gd pump which can handle such flow r usually quite ex one. but heart pain once get a gd one is better than paying more for bills every mth right

[reeftask]

It depends on what pump you want. If out of water pump, it will be more expensive. Not less to say a high flow with low wattage, it will drain out not only your pocket but your wallet too. Unless you have tons in the bank, LOL.

Summersible pump are cheaper but will increase heat and chiller's electricity bill will be higher.

Even the 6550 will not have enough flow if your tank is 2 meter high. But you can use this for pumping water for biological sump. You have to buy some pumps (eg: seio, tunze,..) in your main tank to have good flow.

[klim]

The reason for getting high flow is that I am using a 4x2x2.5 and a 3ft sump. I want to have at least 10times of water circulation.

With the return having 4 elbow joints and about 2 meters high. I think a pump with at least 6000L/Hr or higher should be sufficient, right?

I have considered Heailea but it uses 200w, I believed that it not only will runs the PUB bill but also the water will be heated up.

Therefore, looking for something better.

Btw, I am now using a 3000l/hr pump, it did give me some current. Thus I think 6000 should be able to give more current.

[Dazza]

Hihi klim u can chk out the new range of Deltec pump.. very solid .... low wattage n best of all no noise .. btw nice meeting u the other day at ericsson.

[iantoh]

hi there bro klim,

with regards to your need for flow within the display tank, i do feel that you will still need separate wavemakers within your display to provide dispersed and randomized flow, for example, with Tunzes or Vortechs.

for a return pump, you should aim to have the return flow rate roughly match the feed rate of your skimmer. so if you have a skimmer powered by a 2000L/hr pump, you can do with a 2000 to 3000L/hr pump for your return. this ensures that your overflow skims the topper-most layer of organic material and brings this to your skimmer for effective skimming. having too high an overturn rate may not necessarily help with filtration or skimming, and may also overly tax your overflow going-down pipes to their capacity.

are your return and overflow pipes adjustable with a ball valve? similarly, how many return outlets do you have at the moment? a 6000L/hr flow rate exiting a single return pipe may provide too much flow for most corals, even sps, in a small area near the pipe, as the flow is constant and focused, as opposed to diffused.

for a 5000L/hr pump, id definitely recommend the Red dragon bro jervis is selling;

other brands id recommend from personal experience are the aquabees and eheims.

cheers,

ian

[reeftask]

well, i disagree with ian at his points. we cannot compare skimmer's pump. Some people may have big or very small skimmer. klim has tried with a 1500 l/hr pump and not satifaction. klim pipe is 2 meter high so the pump flow will decrease tremendously due to backflow. I have a 8000 l/hr pump with pipe at height 1.5metre and The flow is still not so strong. I still have to place three seio pumps to satisfy the flow. 3 seio because 5 ft tank. klim tank definitely needs at leat 4000 l/hr pump and It will benefit a biological sump. If the sump has nothing, better use 2000 l/hr. but a sump without biological filter basically wont enhance bacteria filtering and only let you to add additives.

Usually the outlet at main tank is more than one. Not advise to limit to only one.

Klim, hailea pump can be place outside of water to reduce heat. Only thing is 200W is high electricity bill. I have a hailea pump 2540 just for my chiller and not flow to tank.

[reeftask]

well, i disagree with ian at his points. we cannot compare skimmer's pump. Some people may have big or very small skimmer. klim has tried with a 1500 l/hr pump and is a failure. klim pipe is 2 meter high so the pump flow will decrease tremendously due to backflow. I have a 8000 l/hr pump with pipe at height 1.5metre and The flow is still not so strong. I still have to place three seio pumps to satisfy the flow. 3 seio because 5 ft tank. klim tank definitely needs at leat 4000 l/hr pump and It will benefit a biological sump. If the sump has nothing, better use 2500 l/hr. but a sump without biological filter basically wont enhance bacteria filtering and only let you to add additives.

Usually the outlet at main tank is more than one. Not advise to limit to only one. Have to admit one outlet is too much of a pressure concentrated on one single place is bad.

BTW this marine so its high flow and it is better to have good flow in the sump to prevent dead spots.

Klim, hailea pump can be place outside of water to reduce heat. Only thing is 200W is high electricity bill. I have a hailea pump 2540 just for my chiller and not flow to tank.

[iantoh]

hi there bro reeftask,

a pressure-rated pump will specify on its packaging, how much flow pressure it will lose over a given height. similarly, no matter how strong a return pump you employ, you will realise that you will still need to supplement your display tank flow rates, because the nature of a return outlet is that it provides a single direction and constant flow pattern, as opposed to a diffused and randomized flow pattern.

similarly, the rationale of skimming the thinnest layer of water with your overflow by matching the flow rates from the return pump to your skimmer's feed rate is to ensure that the overflow delivers water that is most concentrated with organics to your skimmer. having an oversized return pump, with unnecessarily strong flow rates will not help your system, because the essence of the sump tank is to filtrate the water, and if water is being cycled from your tank to sump then back to tank faster than your skimmer or other filtration equipment can handle, then in essence, youre just returning some portion of overflow water back into your display.

an eheim 1260 or 1262 will still achieve 1,500L/hr with a height pressure of 2m, whilst an aquabee 5000 will achieve 3,000L/hr with a 2m head height, both of which are wattage efficient pumps for the flow rates they deliver.

anyhows, just my two cents ya.

cheers,

ian

[reeftask]

hi there bro reeftask,

a pressure-rated pump will specify on its packaging, how much flow pressure it will lose over a given height. similarly, no matter how strong a return pump you employ, you will realise that you will still need to supplement your display tank flow rates, because the nature of a return outlet is that it provides a single direction and constant flow pattern, as opposed to a diffused and randomized flow pattern.

similarly, the rationale of skimming the thinnest layer of water with your overflow by matching the flow rates from the return pump to your skimmer's feed rate is to ensure that the overflow delivers water that is  most concentrated with organics to your skimmer. having an oversized return pump, with unnecessarily strong flow rates will not help your system, because the essence of the sump tank is to filtrate the water, and if water is being cycled from your tank to sump then back to tank faster than your skimmer or other filtration equipment can handle, then in essence, youre just returning some portion of overflow water back into your display.

an eheim 1260 or 1262 will still achieve 1,500L/hr with a height pressure of 2m, whilst an aquabee 5000 will achieve 3,000L/hr with a 2m head height, both of which are wattage efficient pumps for the flow rates they deliver.

anyhows, just my two cents ya.

cheers,

ian

bro, he is not connecting the pump to the skimmer. e is talking about chiller, LOL.

The skimmer has its own pump and is separate from this issue. If you worried about the skimmer not able to pickup the dirts, then it is wrong. The skimmer didnt pick up is because the design is not good and the bubble is not efficient.

The outlet is advise to have more than 1 outlet so should be solved. Skimmer is using 2000l/hr pump is ok. but Klim had tried with his 1500l/hr which is only a bit lesser than 2000l/hr for his flowback and already failure. This means 2000l/hr pump is still a failure because it increases only 300l/hr extra after the back pressure. Pls check the charts for pumps. You will be shocked how much the flow drop/feet. I noticed about the charts because I am very familiar with pumps. Im 17 years maintenance, service and project engineer in engrg.

[iantoh]

bro reeftask,

sorry, but pls consider reading my post again. i am trying to recommend that he choose a return pump that has a similar flow rate to the flow rate at which his skimmer's feed pump is rated. the principle of which is entirely separate.

and bro, do note that the flow rating for different brands of pumps mean different things- alot of brands over-estimate their flow rates. an eheim, aquabee or even better, deltec or red dragon pump will not suffer quite as much from head loss as a generic hailea or rio pump.

and bro, an Eheim 1260 pump, rated at 2,400L/hr, will deliver at least 1000L/hr flow rate at a height of 2m, whereas a rio pump may do so, only to splutter and fail over a short time. pressure-rated versus non-pressure rated.

[klim]

Hi Ian and Reeftask,

Thanks for the suggestion.

My Skimmer currently is running on a 2500l/h pump. I wanted a higher return so that I can have the water exchange faster and more.

In my Sump, there are 3 compartments:

1. the return pipe is going thru a series of LR on the first column

2. the second column is the pump to chiller and also pump to refrigium

3. last column is return pump, Skimmer (return pipe to 2nd column) and return from Chiller and Refrigium

I am not sure whether this placement is correct but seems like no choice due to the Sump design.

I was thinking if I have a higher return, I can use it to generate wave in the Main tank, this will reduce the number of wave maker in the tank.

Please continue to feed me with info so that I can make the right choice and learn more things....that is why I am in this forum (to learn)

[reeftask]

agree the cheap pump will not be expected quality but what you pay is what you get. Just get a bigger pump will do the compensation and still cheaper. I dont agree rio will fail in short time. Mine and a friend had been 4 years still OK.

Well if klim still not satisfy with the 2500l/hr, then upgrade to 4000l/hr or 6000l/hr. If no money buy cheap pump. If have money buy good pump. Everything is straight forward. I dont think further advise is needed here.

Klim, why dont you survey what you want and then check for the pump price in LFS. Its better that way than wasting your time here dangling.

[BFG]

Yup, no choice but to save some money for a good low wattage pump. That's what I did, switch from 2x1260 to a 8m3. The 8m3 uses less than the 2x1260 and push nearly double what the 2x1260 could. Don't think about when you could see the return in saving for buying something expensive, the important thing is monthly bill MUST be low in order to enjoy this hobby. It is afterall a hobby and you need to spend as little every month so that it won't be a cause of a burden.

[iantoh]

hi there bro klim,

perhaps i can share with you some of my personal experience. my present display tank holds about 70 odd litres, and because i planned it as a full sps system, i had two return outlets into the display pre-drilled, and use two 4000L/Hr pumps on each return. this achieved an incredible amount of flow in my display, but i also realized that it affected skimming, which nowadays, seems to play an increasing role in our modern tank's filtration.

in discussions with some fellow reefers, like bro madmac, i realized that this compromised skimming efficiency because water was overflowing into my sump and being returned to my display faster than my skimmer could effectively skim. this meant that alot of the nutrient laden water coming down my overflow was being returned to my display, effectively voiding the principle of having an overflow in the first place. likewise, skimmers work best when nutrient laden water is delivered to its chamber for mixing, as it helps sustain a stable foam head.

anyhows, i soon realized too that my idea of achieving all my flow needs through my two returns wasnt working out. (keep it mind that this is a really small tank too) what happens is that return outlets project a very focused stream of water, that coupled with a strong return pump, delivers a very strong, focused and constant stream of water, and this generally isnt very beneficial for corals in terms of providing for their flow needs.

most corals, LPS, SPS, whatever, will soon perish if blasted with flow, so with a strong return outlet, you'd have to direct it away from you corals so that flow is achieve indirectly by pushing open water or reflecting off glass panels. this is good, but it also in the end reduces the flow and how widespread it is throughout your tank, and eventually, youll decide to add extra wavemakers into the tank.

when i chimed in to reply to your posted query, my simple point was perhaps you could consider using a less powerful return pump, and try to match it to your skimmer's flow rate (with a 2,500L/hr feed rate for your skimmer, an eheim 1262 sounds like a well-match return pump), you can achieve maximum skimming efficiency- then add a couple of good wavemakers into your display. wattage wise, the tunzes are fantastic.

in any case, with good husbandry, i think your tank will thrive, independent of the size of your return pump. just take note to measure the maximum flow rate your overflow can handle if you decide to adopt a very high flow rate return pump, as you dont want the situation where more water goes up than comes down.

all the best bro!

cheers,

ian

ps: you can check out the reefkeeping, reefpark or zeovit forums TOTM sections for inspiration too ya, as that can give you an indicatation of the return pumps being used in successful systems.

[ClOwNy_LoVeR]

bro jervis RD good return pump.shjould consider since its quite new and the price is ok.

[klim]

Hi Bro IAN, Reeftask and BFG for sharing your knowledge...I will consider all your suggestion and hope to balance things out.

I am so glad that I am in this forum to enable me to learn and gather knowledge

[klim]

bro jervis RD good return pump.shjould consider since its quite new and the price is ok.

I think it is sold, bro.....

[kareen]

With all the inputs.... I'll like to add something for you to ponder on....

1) What do you intend to keep? SPS? LPS and soft corals?

Remember LPS and soft corals generally require more dirty water and lesser flow.

2) Is your hardware (overflow, skimmer, etc) able to take 5000l/hr turnover?

3) What can you achieve with such high turnover rate? <= important think carefully in term of your situation....

[dfstan]

interesting agrument. let's bring it up again for benefit of those whom setting new tank or as a reminder. any other school of thoughts?

[tineng]

i switch from a red dragon 10m3 to Rio HF20......frankly, i do not notice any differences in terms of its impact on the water quailty....in both cases, by NO3 cannot be detected by the test kit, and PO4 from Hanna shows from 0.00 (after rowaphos change) to 0,06 (1-2 months after rowaphos change )......

seriously, you should aim to give yourself good turnover, but beyond certain point, it gets quite meaningless and does nothing productive.....

[dfstan]

but what iantoh commented does makes sense! but the other dude got 17 years experience in maintenace leh. wondering if someone has performed a good comparison on this.

klim, what's the outcome on your case. care to share?

[Solo77]

frustrated....he decom.....JOKING LAR...hehehe..

Honestly, sometimes getting too many school of thoughts will get one confused and hopefully one will get a convincing one and believe in it.

I think this question also comes into my mind and thanks for bring it up....another question i am trying to find is whether a 1/4 hp chiller is sufficient for a 3.5 ft by 3 ft sump tank.....lol.....

Another school of thought from some reefers....the amount spent on branded pump with low wattage and higher performance vs saving one can get over the years on the bill. Maybe it is good to get just a mid range pump such as ehiem and AB. Think certain factors are not easy to come by to put up a real table comparison and the unknown factors are useful lifespan, electrical tariff, etc. Unless performance is a key factor and to reach that, only RD and deltec can meet...then it will be neater to get them. Lucky RD will have agent soon(hopefully it comes true as i know the parts are not easy to come by). High flow rate from the return seems to help in the circulation but one often uses wave maker to supplement.

headache....lol