how eco-friendly/ reef-friendly are we really?

[jacobus]

just something to debate on. hopefully it wont turn out to be a flame war.

1. We love the sea and its inhabitants. We want to preserve the fishes/corals/inverts.

But. In the pursuit of this hobby we: ( Im not pointing fingers, im guilty of some of these as well )

- keep on persisting in attempting to rear a rare/hard to keep creature even after multiple failures.

- use up so much electricity in having a ton of equipment to maintain pristine water quality.

- release foreign species into local waters, potentially endangering local species.

are we reefers, in maintaining our tanks. unknowningly harming the earth ?

should we be attempting to ( i know some people here are doing it ) :

- breeding LS / fragging corals more?

- trying out natural ways of water maintenance?

- using less energy consuming equipments (better for our pockets as well)

[jacobus]

whoops wrong section. can the mods shift this ?

[jervismun]

I personally share the same sentiments and I don't think this should end up a flame fest... as we are guilty in one way or another...

For me, I get very "heart pain" when settling electicity bills... I always try my best to minimize power consumption... that's all I manage to do for the time being.

Will try to frag more SPS in the future

[hammy]

just something to debate on. hopefully it wont turn out to be a flame war.

1. We love the sea and its inhabitants. We want to preserve the fishes/corals/inverts.

But. In the pursuit of this hobby we: ( Im not pointing fingers, im guilty of some of these as well )

- keep on persisting in attempting to rear a rare/hard to keep creature even after multiple failures.

- use up so much electricity in having a ton of equipment to maintain pristine water quality.

- release foreign species into local waters, potentially endangering local species.

are we reefers, in maintaining our tanks. unknowningly harming the earth ?

should we be attempting to ( i know some people here are doing it ) :

- breeding LS / fragging corals more?

- trying out natural ways of water maintenance?

- using less energy consuming equipments (better for our pockets as well)

this thread set me thinking too.

This hobby is definately one of the most high energy consumption activities ( in term of human as well as fuel too =) )

Maybe i should just decom ... just kidding i cant. The ever increasing electrical bill is already encouraging most reefer to spend on higher efficient equipments, not to mention the guilt of killing specimens without the wisdom of keeping them. i guess no one can take care of the coral as well as the sea, must as well leave it to the sea?

i beg to differ. What reefers need are the knowledge before plunging into the hobby. i have known many reefers who had propagate coral as their motivation of reefkeeping and that is very encouraging . we are capable to give the conditions for the coral to propagate. Make Propagation a lifestyle.

for reefers who just wanna a great reef looking tank, maybe should look into the costs of maintaining and keeping them healthy too. it is not cheap, very exorbitant indeed. ( i wonder whether i will be a million richer without this hobby ) As most failed due to lack of maintainence, some fail because they are unwilling to spend .

depending on the budget and system ability, reefer should also have the knowledge to know what he can keep and what he cant. i remember talking to friend that says he wanna keep this coral , that coral.... but he dun want skimmer , dun want expensive lighting , dun want ........

as for high energy consumption part, the most logical is to invest in efficient equipment to minimise energy consumption. However efficient equipment dun come cheap too haiz ..... but for long term into the hobby, some will be happier when they look at their electrical bill too.

We still need electricity in the hobby. almost no way out. Natural way such as deep sand bed and utilisation of algae is good to reduce maintainence and improve reef health, but electrical power still need to be employed to a certain extend. Maybe what we can do ... use less plastic bag? ( Today NTUC dun give plastic bag remember )

[blueheaven]

Yes, jacobus brought up a very good point which didn't cross my mind before and that is the electricity consumption of our hobby. Of course we do know that we are paying more since we start this hobby but other than worrying about electricity bills, have we spent some time to think about being eco-friendly with electricity?

I guess for the sake of this topic, I'd say that there would be some reefers who truely love our marine life and as part of the hobby, want to help to keep it sustainable. There would also be reefers who just want to have an obscenely impressive tank to show off to others or brag about what they just acquired in such forums.

For a long time, I had this thought in my mind that we reefers should be concerned with conservation and be environmentalists at least to our marine diversity. I mean, who else better to be ambassadors to our marine ecosystem than us hobbyists who embed this miracles of nature into our daily lives?

Maybe its because many reefers (and Singaporeans) already have this thought that our local waters are barren and lifeless. Who wouldn't when they see how murky and turbid our waters are when you picnic at the beach or be disgusted by the crap that gets washed ashore our beaches? In fact, Singapore's waters are very much alive and well as can be seen from my blog www.thebluheaven.blogspot.com where I post about my trips to intertidal zones around Singapore and its islands. The pictures were not taken while I was underwater snorkelling or diving and in fact, I am rather dry when I go out documenting the intertidal life of Singapore.

Maybe we could group up and organise a conservation programme or something of similar context. I hope that reefers can give some suggestions or requests of what you guys want to do to help or at least put an effort in. Maybe you'd like a trip to an intertidal zone or try out reef surveying and transects. All can be arranged in a way or another as long as we have the passion and commitment!

[jacobus]

those are really encouraging words ... good to see such response.. although i secretly hoped for more replies... can i ask ? any bros here ever develop any form of attachment for there LS ? i dont know about large tanks ... but with a small tank like mine ... where every fish is accounted for daily ... it hurts me to sell a fish ... leaves me in a dilemma ... in case you haven noticed ... im semi-decomming again due to a horrendous accident that left my room flooring in a mess

that aside ya ... especially for the fish that's been with me for a while .. its terribly hard ..

apart from the sidetrack. anyone have come across use of natural waste removal ?

[RX_GAN]

u remind me of something terrible which happen a few years back then...

how sad to think of it again...

really heartpain..damn heartpain....

my tank crack at the botton and the water flow out into my studyroom..

all the fishes and corals died...becos i didn't know abt it only when i reach home...

AHHH...pls dun remind me of that again...my angels...my corals...my fishes...my lion...

shitty...

in the end, they compensate my another tank...SOB SOB SOB..

and when i give away my niger trigger of 4 years...

i was like so heartpain...he's too aggressive when i wanna keep shrimps in my tank..

so heartpain..hahaha..

but right now i treasure my shrimps even more..becos they remind me of my niger...hahah..

[Nitro]

Jacobus > What do u mean natural waste removal? Sand shifter starfish, sea cuke, DSB, hermit etc?

There is always two school of thought to everything. For reefing, some go for high end equipments while some go for minimal basic equipments, both to keep beautiful reef tanks.

For me, I think it's abt what u wanna keep that will determine ur equipments. Like my tank and system def can't keep SPS.

The other way to be Eco-friendly is bring ur own plastic bags, containers, foam boxes on ur next reef shopping lor... haha. Hopefully with this, our LFS can lower their prices cuz we help them to cut back the cost for plastic bags.

[BFG]

We can be Eco-Friendly and still keep our hobby. I have a few suggestion-

1) Lighting.

We have always been using our lighting schedule 7 days a week. Why not we choose a day in a week and switch off our lightset to lessen the usage of electricity. In the wild, coral do not have the luxury of daily sunlight as there are period where it rains. We can simulate the raining period for 1 day in a week. There is a thread in rc where the reefer did 3 straight day in a month without lights on.

Personally for me, I have not switch on my hall light when my tank light is on. I am consuming lesser electricity this way as I do not need the hall to be lit when no one is sitting there. The tank lighting illuminate the hall albeit not as what normal lighting does but it is sufficient. Only when I have friends or family over does the hall light is switch on.

2) Pump.

We need to lessen the usage of this equipment. Buying better equipment that uses lesser electric than the next brand should be the top priority for us. Of course, the pump that uses lesser electricity but provide better and higher flow is the one that we should aim for. No use if you buy pumps that uses lesser electricity and has weak flow, that you need to buy multiple pump to get the desired effect.

I have done this by removing 2 x 1260 and replace it with a red dragon 8m3. The 2 x 1260 consume more electric but provide less flow than what the 8m3 does. A great relief on the monthly bill.

3) Chiller.

This is another equipment that we need to look into. Currently, the chiller available to us require us to add a pump for it to work. This is the only equipment I see that need another equipment to make it work. Why not for go this and get one that has a drop in coil like I see in some US website. It does not need a pump to make it work and reefer uses less pump and even lesser electricity. We also have a local aircon compressor maker who also have a similar type of equipment mentioned. The coil can be placed in the sump and the return pump will do the rest.

For me, I am trying to save up to get 1. May not be using those pump requiring chiller in the future. Currently I am using a chiller so it's days are numbered.

In the end, to enjoy this hobby, we need to plan what equipment to get in order to lessen our electrical dependancy. Proper planning is essential !

[jervismun]

Hopefully with this, our LFS can lower their prices cuz we help them to cut back the cost for plastic bags.

Very highly unlikely

[jervismun]

I also switch off some of my wavemakers at night... save electricity, generate less heat and to create a more gentle environment for my LS to rest. Just remember that wavemakers running 24/7 can be real killers

[blueheaven]

I switch my tank MH off for 2 days in a week.

I find that the corals still look amazing under the blue T5s

[jacobus]

sorry with my late replies ... been preoccupied with stuff .... as for natural waste removal ... methods like using mangroves ... stuff like tt?

i thought about it ... for their coral reef tank.. the chura-umi aquarium in okinawa uses SUNLIGHT ONLY to light their tanks... why isnt possible for us ? we have chillers and all ... plus if really needed cant we just have the lights on and sun down.. and i realised on thing when i visited a "ulu" LFS ... sunlight brings out amazing coloration in fish that artifical means can not achieve...

aside from this ... i was browsing a local photography forum at their underwater photos section when i came across a debate of [[ marine organisms in captivity = no good ]] which sadly pointed out that us reefers are baddies. taking corals from the sea and fish ... as result ... more fish die / reef destroyed.. if u want to take a look at the content of the debate PM me and i will direct u to the link.

being me... i started a topic there to let them know about out propagating/ fragging activities and even aquaculture ( hopefully another flame war will not start )

but saying that... really .. we should start making a stand to show that we are not exploiters of the sea ..that we are doing our part as well ..

PS: pls pls pls dont go there and bombard the ppl ... i promised the mods i was not going to stir up trouble there.

[Underwater]

Oh dear, after reading, i'm really guilty of some of them.

Many of us share the fish list we currently have, but wonder how many of us would list down for own reference the fishes/corals we killed in this hobby. When l tried to do that, l got a shock looking at that list alone (money spent aside)...really felt shameful "killing" so many of them. They wld probably be happier in the ocean or in somebody's else tank. U may want to try to list down and some of you will be surprised.

So, what i do now is:

1. Reduce no. of visits to LFS (cos always will buy something back)

2. Not buying on impulse, and read more if a species is easy/suitable to keep

3. Avoid delicate/difficult to keep fishes

4. Not over stocking

5. Buy from reputable LFS

6. Improve water quality for present fish/coral

7. Use less equipment (Use one instead of 2 - UV & Ozoniser, lesser wavemakers)

8. Reduce lighting period by an hour or two

9. Reuse plastic bags from LFS when selling/giving away LS

Hope i dun get flame here...just sharing...heehee

[jc85]

- keep on persisting in attempting to rear a rare/hard to keep creature even after multiple failures.

As long as its not one of those in the endangered or going to be species and cites. It should be fine.

- use up so much electricity in having a ton of equipment to maintain pristine water quality.

If the equipment is essential, why not? U'll not want to have lifestock dying often and changing them every now and then,

- release foreign species into local waters, potentially endangering local species.

are we reefers, in maintaining our tanks. unknowningly harming the earth ?

should we be attempting to ( i know some people here are doing it ) :

This is something I serious do not agree with. Nvr release alien species into Singapore habitat. This will only seriously affect the local bio-diversity.

- breeding LS / fragging corals more?

This will be ideal but from the look of the process, its still a long way off.

- trying out natural ways of water maintenance?

Refugium, NSW?

- using less energy consuming equipments (better for our pockets as well)

Definitely a no go. Always use energy efficient equipment. Its gd for the environment and ur pocket at the same time.

The only thing that I feel not eco-friendly abt our hobby is the energy comsumption. However, after much thought, imho, as long as you have done your best to use those equipment that gave you best performance in terms of power consumption, you definitely will be able to sleep soundly at nite.

Another point that might be gd to note, always buy cites livestock and if possible only those farmed corals. It will be an ideal situation if the local reefing community can actively exchange frags.

Cheers

JC

[jc85]

being me... i started a topic there to let them know about out propagating/ fragging activities and even aquaculture ( hopefully another flame war will not start )

There are definitely some good that came out from this hobby. Imo, we/human learnt alot more of the lives of the deep blue sea. We understand to certain extend how they survive and their habit. These probably will take double the timeline for scientist to find out without the maturity of the hobby trade.

JC

[oceanloverm]

Is there anyone using solar power to power their tank? Even a bit can make a lot of different but in term of buying a solar panel cost a lot a lot and space is a problem here in Singapore.

[jacobus]

i believe that solar power i possible ? but from the current technology now. might be impossible.. i remember there was a point of time where there was a big hype about solar energy.. but with the current technology ... we would require a large amount of solar panels on our roofs ... that is only for people with landed properties.. hdb flats would be a problem ... esp if your block has a few reefers ... you will need more panels... i think those genius jap scientists should do research on this rather than on those silly dancing robots .

[oceanloverm]

i believe that solar power i possible ? but from the current technology now. might be impossible.. i remember there was a point of time where there was a big hype about solar energy.. but with the current technology ... we would require a large amount of solar panels on our roofs ... that is only for people with landed properties.. hdb flats would be a problem ... esp if your block has a few reefers ... you will need more panels... i think those genius jap scientists should do research on this rather than on those silly dancing robots .

Agree with you Jacobus Instead on doing the research on how to build a perfect robot, they should have spend more time on how to do those eco-friendly stuff Creating robots and will make us lazy and make us too depending on machines, maybe one day they will conquer us

hahaha

[Nitro]

solar power... Maybe for those staying in HDB flats, we can creplace our windows to solar panel, function as a window too... haha. Dun think it's a crazy idea cuz someday someone might really come out some efficient solar panel that can be used as windows too. Knowing HDB flats are such common property in Singapore.

[angelfishlover]

1) Lighting.

We have always been using our lighting schedule 7 days a week. Why not we choose a day in a week and switch off our lightset to lessen the usage of electricity. In the wild, coral do not have the luxury of daily sunlight as there are period where it rains. We can simulate the raining period for 1 day in a week. There is a thread in rc where the reefer did 3 straight day in a month without lights on.

you are right about lights.see now rain for quite long and no sun to be seen in the middle of the day.How about for 2-1 days lights will be switched off in the morning until early afternoon.Then late afternoon till night you switch on.Ya abt the solar power cars do use solar energy on their back window for it to be heated.So if we can use window panels as solar energy that will be great!!!!But watch out for wires ah cause in a hdb flat there will be a whole lot of wires passing through.

[BFG]

I have finished a 3 day light off for my tank. No lights for 3 day straight. Cyano and diatoms have lessen on the sandbed. Only casualty was my algae blenny. I am trying out this after reading from a thread in RC.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=1078532

I am going to do this monthly as I am only stocking softies at the moment.

[oceanloverm]

you are right about lights.see now rain for quite long and no sun to be seen in the middle of the day.How about for 2-1 days lights will be switched off in the morning until early afternoon.Then late afternoon till night you switch on.Ya abt the solar power cars do use solar energy on their back window for it to be heated.So if we can use window panels as solar energy that will be great!!!!But watch out for wires ah cause in a hdb flat there will be a whole lot of wires passing through.

Anyone know where can i find solar panel and how much is it per square feet? Keen to diy one for myself in the future read some article before but only can power some small item.

[oceanloverm]

i thought about it ... for their coral reef tank.. the chura-umi aquarium in okinawa uses SUNLIGHT ONLY to light their tanks... why isnt possible for us ? we have chillers and all ... plus if really needed cant we just have the lights on and sun down.. and i realised on thing when i visited a "ulu" LFS ... sunlight brings out amazing coloration in fish that artifical means can not achieve...

I agree that sunlight does better effect for corals and fishes than human-made lights but one thing for sure is that sunlight will cause the water temp very high and I dont think using natural sunlight, because we will end up paying more electricity bills because of the chiller run whole day long like crazy due to the direct sunlight. And i think sunlight will cause a lot of algae problem if i'm not mistaken (happened on my planted tank last time ). Please correct me if i'm wrong hopes there are no offence.

[jacobus]

you can find solar panels at sim lim... dunno tower or square though ... but its useless to try it out now .. coz the current technology ah ... you cannot power anything in your tank...