Scam in this forum

[Achilles Tang]

Really? I heard the law's getting tougher on cheats... even in small claims they are looking after the victims better.

I'm actually also deciding to pursue a long delayed legal case or a public shaming with some evidence and let everyone decide for themselves. Too many sneaky and cheating people nowadays... too hungry for a little $$ or power?? I have been victimized myself... am i too nice to be so easily eaten?

I guess everyone's gonna be a bit smarter now.

[Achilles Tang]

Just wanna alert reefers about this Va*Dea*, who has been pm-ing newbie reefers to try to sell off his stocks.

have been informed by a few reefers abt him pm-ing them, and trying to sell livestocks which he purchased in bulk from LFS and then selling at much higher prices. I believe this guy is an unethical reefer and would advice reefers to exercise caution if got his offers.

I've spoken sternly to these individual about his practice already. Have yet to meet him but he sounds reasonable on the phone.

It seems there are also some speculation on his modus operandi and I'll get to the bottom of it... nothing like finding out for yourself!

There's always two sides to the coin so let's not go on a witchhunt. I've been a victim of too many myself!

[RockyBoy]

Yes, it's good to be nuetral and find out the truth rather than speculating. But I still feel that it is not so nice to sell things that it not suppose to be and to sell them at higher prices, eg, telling unwarry newbies that those zoos are from US but it's actually local zoos.... unless he has been cheated by other reefers/lfs in the first place...

[tineng]

Really? I heard the law's getting tougher on cheats... even in small claims they are looking after the victims better.

I'm actually also deciding to pursue a long delayed legal case or a public shaming with some evidence and let everyone decide for themselves. Too many sneaky and cheating people nowadays... too hungry for a little $$ or power?? I have been victimized myself... am i too nice to be so easily eaten?

I guess everyone's gonna be a bit smarter now.

even in small claims you have to pay some $$$ in adminstration fees and also taxi for the officer serving the claims....there are limits to what small claims can do...and things get trickly if they challenge you....

you can pursue a long delayed case....but what i am saying is that be prepare to spend, and even more if that guy decide to fight back....then it would be even more $$$ down the drain, even if you win - but if it is just that 'qi' you are after then its up to you.......this is not america....you can't get rich from sueing people.....

the police have very strict rules on how they classify cheats...you be surprise if some of the some call cheating cases here would not fall under the power of the police.....so most likely it falls under commerical disputes or some other civil case....

so be smart....do you own research and asked around before even talking to some people...

[Achilles Tang]

I took the trouble to meet up with VanDeam at his place.

He does have about 5 tanks at his home.

Interesting chat and his story to me matches what he has claimed to the complainers here. His regret is that he did not keep the paperwork from the US supplier for the zoos. Whether I believe it or not... no comments.

Maybe he is a rich man's son, maybe he does own the whole stretch of property and maybe his 3-storey house belongs to him... so what?

Whatever his background, I told him in life, people only care about how sincere & genuine you are... and whatever he is doing now to make 'small money' here and there is not worth damaging his reputation because your reputation is all you got. Whether it is in this business or not eg. if he is going to take over his father's business, his actions will return to haunt him later.

He gets the message and says that he is no longer going to be doing what he is doing. Perhaps that is the reason why he kinda disappeared from our radar.

Nevertheless, I told him to come out and defend himself and show some proof... let's just give him a chance to explain himself as he genuinely seems that he wants to clear his name - maybe he did do some dodgy stuff, maybe it's just being misunderstood or misinterpreted?

He is a young man and people can still change their ways.

Oh, and if you are a satisfied customer of VanDeam, perhaps you can say your piece too so we can all hear the two sides of the coin?

Right now, it is so easy for us to condemn him on what we hear, with the salt and pepper thrown in to spice things up... don't make a judgement on him yet till he appears, ok?

BTW, I have just banned a 'scammer' already... anyone noticed that I have banned him/his multinicks already?

This story is much uglier but lets just say that I cannot stand someone who constantly breaks his word, gives excuses, turns the table around and counter-accuses and is downright rude. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

AT

[sky107line]

Err...AT, I believe most of the reefers here doesn't have any intention so call to condemn anyone in this club on his/her in wrong dealing in business or etc. But, Trust me in life most of us here believe in forgiving and allowing to the other party to stand up him/herself on explaining in their wrong doing in business before asking someonelse to stand up for him & as an adult he should be able to come out himself & give a full explaination to all of us here & apologise.....Before he can start a new life.

[wildcat]

Bought a Sohal from him 2 weeks ago. He claimed that it is with him for a year plus. Never see him eat at all and finally found dead last week. .

How can a fish which he claimed to have been with him for a year don't actually eat????? He must has got from LSF the day before I took the Sohal.

Just found out that actually Red Sea stock came in the day before it bought the fish from him. At that time he has many Purple and Sohal Tangs for sale. Still dare to claim that all fishes been with him at least a year already!!!. Funny right?????

Those who have brain should have figure out right????

HE IS A CHEAT!!!!!!!!!!

Too late to figure out..

[hobgoblin]

I believe everyone is looking out for sales and cheap stuff. Anything that is cheaper than those that are sold at LFS will definitely be attractive. The allure of it may cause some to acts of compulsiveness, in this forum that means rushing into deals. Ultimately it is up to the individual to be discerning. Everything is negotiable, all the cards should be dealt out before a decision should be made. If you think that the deal sounds fishy, or something does not add up, then please do not commit.

I know it really sucks to have found out that you've been cheated. But what caused you to commit in the first place. More often than so, reefers go retrospective and claimed that livestocks were bought in bulk from LFS to be sold. Can these reefers substantiate these allegations? Why cry over spilt milk? Once beaten twice shy, but I've noted a few who got themselves conned a few times over, or so they claim. Or are they unsatisfied with the purchase only after the deal was made?

Here we are pointing fingers at each other (or collective pointing at an individual). But in Marketplace, there are sure to be some who wants to make a quick deal (some a quick buck with minmal profits, and daring ones to reap bigger profits) with profits. I'm sure those who deal in market place have one way or another gained in some way.

I suppose all of us should be careful of what we say. Allegations made without basis are dangerous!

[glim18]

strange...I can't find a post I'd put in about 1-hour ago under a different thread...this is what it said...roughly...

I don't normally post my opinions about transactions with other forumers...this is my first "virgin" opinion posting...

My dealings with Vandeam have been fair, and he's kept his word in my dealings with him. In any deal that I transact via a forum or 2nd-hand site, it's very much "buyer beware". The seller offers to sell an item at a certain price, and if you as a buyer agrees to buy it after seeing the item, than the risk of that item is passed from the seller to the buyer.

I have purchased an item from a LFS at $19, only to find the same item being sold at another LFS for $10. I can consider the first LFS a cheat, a con, etc...but stupid me...my mistake. But I've also found other items at the same "cheat" LFS being sold for a reasonable price.

I've also bought livestock from LFS, only to find that these fishes don't eat, or just can't survive, and eventually die. I can't go back for a refund! Are we now saying that we expect other forumers to "guarantee" the items that they are selling?

I post an item for sale, someone sees the post, is ok with the price, contacts me, views the item and completes the sale, then that's the end of that transaction. The same applies when I buy something from someone else. It'll be a good buy, fair transaction, or stupid-me!

If AT's spoken to Vandeam already, then can we consider this case closed? All this flaming is really killing the spirit of this forum which I (and probably many others) have been enjoying.

Let there be peace...

[jyoon]

Thanks Bro and Sis posting advice and warning. I have stopped this hobby few years (due to a fire) and now I am back.

It's really great to have this forum and had learn lots of new things.

Keep it up.

[Achilles Tang]

strange...I can't find a post I'd put in about 1-hour ago under a different thread...this is what it said...roughly...

I don't normally post my opinions about transactions with other forumers...this is my first "virgin" opinion posting...

My dealings with Vandeam have been fair, and he's kept his word in my dealings with him. In any deal that I transact via a forum or 2nd-hand site, it's very much "buyer beware". The seller offers to sell an item at a certain price, and if you as a buyer agrees to buy it after seeing the item, than the risk of that item is passed from the seller to the buyer.

I have purchased an item from a LFS at $19, only to find the same item being sold at another LFS for $10. I can consider the first LFS a cheat, a con, etc...but stupid me...my mistake. But I've also found other items at the same "cheat" LFS being sold for a reasonable price.

I've also bought livestock from LFS, only to find that these fishes don't eat, or just can't survive, and eventually die. I can't go back for a refund! Are we now saying that we expect other forumers to "guarantee" the items that they are selling?

I post an item for sale, someone sees the post, is ok with the price, contacts me, views the item and completes the sale, then that's the end of that transaction. The same applies when I buy something from someone else. It'll be a good buy, fair transaction, or stupid-me!

If AT's spoken to Vandeam already, then can we consider this case closed? All this flaming is really killing the spirit of this forum which I (and probably many others) have been enjoying.

Let there be peace...

Errr... you mean this post? I found it here...

[Nickel]

I took the trouble to meet up with VanDeam at his place.

He does have about 5 tanks at his home. ................................................................................

.....................................

Oh, and if you are a satisfied customer of VanDeam, perhaps you can say your piece too so we can all hear the two sides of the coin?

Right now, it is so easy for us to condemn him on what we hear, with the salt and pepper thrown in to spice things up... don't make a judgement on him yet till he appears, ok?

AT

Hi all, maybe some of you may remember me some time back in SRC. Due to personal problems, I had to stop reefing some 2 years ago to consolidate my life.

I normally do not participate/comment in disputes but felt I need to highlight some pleasant encounters last week with VanDeam as per AT's post above. I do not have any prior knowledge of issues in this thread as I hardly visit Kopi Tiam until I chanced upon this now. Neither do I know him before he PMed me for the pump.

Below was what happened :

I posted to buy a 1262 pump for my FW tank. Vandeam PMed me to offer me a pump at a price already lower than what ppl offered me here. I explained my financial situation to him and the inevitable need to replace an about-to-conk pump. He offered to reduce price further.

When I reach his place to collect the pump almost midnight last week, a friend of his was there helping him to setup a 5ft tank. Unfortunately this friend wrongly installed the all the 1262 pumps without VanDeam's knowledge and since this person is already almost done with finetuning the skimmer and already past midnight, Vandeam offered to sent the pump to my place after he swapped it out with another pump next day and offered to further reduce the price and choose a very new 1262 to compensate for my wasted trip without me even asking. Besides that, he offered to give me a 4ft marine cabinet tank to entice me back to the hobby !! I'd declined as I am still sorting out my personal problem and I do not have time to give TLC to it, at least not now.

Another incident, over last weekend, think he committed to buy some corals in this forum (saw that thread in the buy/sell section too) but he ran into transport problem and asked for my help to collect on his behalf as the seller is near my place. Vandeam offered to give me a purple tang or a ric for my trouble . But as I was out of country last few days, I couldn't help him. I would have help if I am in town but I will not accept the tang nor ric as I do not have a marine tank now.

As I'd highlighted above, I do not have any interest to be part of any dispute, past, present or future, nor any gain to be had for sharing above my encounters with VanDeam. Just want to share my encounters with him and I must say I am very happy with the pump deal. It is running nicely in my FW tank now.

Hopefully in near future I will be back into marine and need all forumer's guidance .

Cheers to all.

[LinkinPark]

I have purchased an item from a LFS at $19, only to find the same item being sold at another LFS for $10. I can consider the first LFS a cheat, a con, etc...but stupid me...my mistake. But I've also found other items at the same "cheat" LFS being sold for a reasonable price.

LFS is doing a biz. Reefers who behave like LFS should be SRC sponsor, not reefers selling 2nd hand stuff in pasar malam

I've also bought livestock from LFS, only to find that these fishes don't eat, or just can't survive, and eventually die. I can't go back for a refund! Are we now saying that we expect other forumers to "guarantee" the items that they are selling?

Did the LFS tell you tt the fish has been there for one year and has been eating well? If he did and it is not true, technically, you can demand for refund

Otherwise, consumers take a calculated risk when they bought the LS, especially new shipment

I post an item for sale, someone sees the post, is ok with the price, contacts me, views the item and completes the sale, then that's the end of that transaction. The same applies when I buy something from someone else. It'll be a good buy, fair transaction, or stupid-me!

In SRC pasar malam, buyers look for bargain as the items sold are 2nd hand (regardless wether used or new, it is still 2nd hand) and sellers don't make commercial profit (if they do, they should be SRC sponsor)

If AT's spoken to Vandeam already, then can we consider this case closed?  All this flaming is really killing the spirit of this forum which I (and probably many others) have been enjoying.

In a way, it is also good to have such an ëxpose so that we can avoid falling into the same pain. But to many people, special offer always outweigh the cautions and warnings, and history often repeats itself

[LoReNsIa]

i agree with wad bro linkin park sae.. actually there is alot of things happen and it is sooo obvious but no one spoted it..

[the oracle]

AT! I am a newbie here. I jus saw this thread and saw that you say he is no longer doing this scam business. However i still receive private massage from him. Here is his new business below! And ask me to join in as well. Lucky i saw this thread if not sure kanna conned. You better check with him again cos i dont think he selling think openly but by private pming all newbies who is lurking around in this website. Here is my conversation with him below.

[the oracle]

Why i didnt buy from him is bcos today jus went down to awarna and saw those beatiful zoo and they told me expensive zoo are around 30-40 max (not sure us zoo) but very nice tri colour zoo. so was taken aback by his price. If he is not doing any sale why he still pm me today? I hate to be con or cheated.

[hobgoblin]

Why i didnt buy from him is bcos today jus went down to awarna and saw those beatiful zoo and they told me expensive zoo are around 30-40 max (not sure us zoo) but very nice tri colour zoo.

If you're not sure on the pricing of zoas, then I suggest that you do some market study and make an effort to find out. If you're new to this hobby, it is inevitable that you'll be in situation such as these. If you're taken back by his pricing, then please do not commit, or else you'll be joining the ranks of those who talk about being conned and cheated.

Like what the others have mentioned, it is up to the buyer's discerning eye and ultimately his decision to commit to a deal. In every circumstances, a buyer could have just refused a deal that seems 'suspicious', shrugged his shoulder and walk away. But isn't it true for us that if the dealer were to add more freebies to the offer, we are tempted to make an impulsive decision?

So who's at fault here?

Again I'd like to caution everyone to substantiate what you've written in the forum with proof. False allegation and slandering will land you in a deep pile of S**t. I suppose most of us here are adults, and we should reflect the maturity in our posts.

Who else here would then be the an examplary role models for the younger reefers? It would really suck if we had this reoccuring month after month.

The root of all these is greed. If not for the 'rarer' corals, and the 'cheap' deals and the 'seemingly attractive offer', we could have avoided this. Please rethink and ponder on what others have added to this thread.

A person's reputation is at stake, and legal action can always be taken, though for some it may seem that this issue here is trival.

Please be weary of what you type.

Everyone can be a keyboard heroe... but when you're in trouble, few will come to your aid.

[bbking]

Prudence, prudence and more prudence.

Two views here.

1.

Free trade. Buyer and seller agreees so should have no complains after deal is done. Even if price is higher, stock smells... dies, blah blah.

Truth: Very true. Shrugged shoulders, kick yourself in the butt and remember. Just tell your close friends, your close friends will tell their close friends and so on. Words can drift. No need to write and get yourself in trouble.

2.

This is a hobby, so don't knock your fellow bros/ sis/ blah blah head so much. Make money OK for your effort but be truthful. Let me decide if I want to buy. Don't tell me grandmother stories so that I will buy.

Truth: Very true. Exercise prudence. Don't buy. Go see if you have time and say "can find cheaper leh". Go home chill out and laugh yourself silly.

Me. I don't sit on the fence. I believe in both conspiracy theory. I pratice both.

. Say no more, life still goes on. One big ugly vicious cycle. Eveytime and everywhere.

[thomas_lim]

Just sharing my own experience with Kenny. Below is what I PM AT when he asked for feedback recently.

====================================================

AT,

Understand from Kenny you had visited him and "inspected" his goods.. Haha..

Personally, I had some transaction with him and continue to do so now. The latest 2 rics was reserved by me pending collection from biz trip.

He started as a newbie and I gave him some free livestocks nearly a year back. Being a newbie himself, he was con by several people and bought things at high price too. I had personally see those stuffs which he bought 1 year ago and they are definitely not worth what he had paid.

So I introduce him to several LFS/LFF which he can go about checking prices for his own consumption. I would believe he has been misguided by a few other reefers who had teach him about all this buy/sell tactics which I had encourage him to stop which seem the case now. Hopefully is a long term.

Sorry for this lengthy email, just wanted to share my own experience w him.

=====================================================

Like most bro/sis here said, do your homework before you commit anything. Inspect the goods. For livestock, there is no 100% guarantee it will survive in different tank and environment. It could be due to tranpostation stress, etc.

I myself had bought items like Rics from other reefers, some survive in my tank and some die off within a few days. So, i can't blame the seller coz it can be my tank condition.

Just my 2 cents. Peace!!!

[iantoh]

hi guys,

personally, im not too keen to get involved in any slam matches, whoever the subject reefer may be, but i seriously think that somethng is amiss when a reefer Perpetually has something or other to sell and yet claims not to be in it for a profit. i mean, if you're decomming, that's sad for the community but good for the buyers, so everyone's more or less happy. and if youd like to recoup some of your initial outlay into the hobby, why not? caveat emptor, and buyers should be responsible for doing their own homework and making their own choices.

But if youre Forever decomming, or Forever upgrading, it doesnt make sense right?

i mean, it severely cheapens the value of life when fish and corals are boght for two days, then put on sale again, in a continuous cycle.

in my honest opinion, buying from people who show so little respect for their ocean friends compromises the reputation of our hobby, and if we value our hobby or the lives of the ocean creatures we care for, then we ought not to support their activities.

i dont mean to sound high-brow or what shit, seeing as im no animal activist or whatever, but this kind of activity really smacks of irresponsibility, and its like all our livestock are degraded into meat that gets passed around endlessly.

how are we to be a friendly, close, and responsible community that attracts others into the hobby like that?

sincerely,

ian

[Homer]

hi all,this is my encounter with Vandeam,

my tank crash about a month ago..

it was midnight then where i got no one to turn to.hence i call one of the reefer that i deal with b4.he came and bought Vandeam along.

Vandeam offer to help me house some of my injuried corals in his tank,knowing that it might conterminal his own tank.i was greatful to him..

i had since collected my corals back.

i had no dealings with him b4,

however this is how i feel:i personally knew some of the reefers that complain about his dealing,but then it his words against theirs,who knows?

yes, he does help out with de-com after de-com for his friends,does anyone had any prove that he pocket the money instead of his friends?

who are we to judge?

example, Christano Ronaldo dives and win penalty,does his legs needs to be chop?

we reefers always go for(or chong) good stuff when the chances come,do we really bother who the seller is when we can get what we want at a low price?

trust me,if today Osama bin Ladin offer to sell his AT at $20,the queue can reach JB from here..

no,dont get me wrong,i dont like cheaters.

if anyone can prove that he is guilty,i say bring it on..lets hear what he got to say...

if not, lets just give him a chance...

i know alot of reefers will be unhappy with me after reading this,some of i consider good bros and sis that got dealings with him

i am putting my head on the chopping board for someone that i know a month ago...becoz i think everyone deserve a chance to defence himself.

cheers-Homer

[fishtalk1517]

I remember when I first sold my corals to Kenny after my scape abt a year ago, Kenny jus like any newbie, was extremely enthusiatics and eager abt reefing and anything abt marine. He asked my why the corals then tat I sold was so cheap as he was quoted an orange yuma for $15 per poly and he was given a discount for 10 polys on a rock for $100/-(total dis of $50/-) Goodness me. A rock of orange yumas of 10 polys for $100 ??? Guess he went thru the pace of carrot chopping by tat LFS at the west side when he first started As he is easy going with money, I found tat many marine items tat he bought from equipments to fishes to corals to fish food,have all been marked up extremely high by that shop

Seeing newbies like him being chopped as a start up, I decided to show him more of the east side, pasir ris farmway. Jus like wat Thomas Lim did. Introducing newbies of more of the LFS in our heartland here. Ferrying him ard in my car from farms to farms costs me petrol $$, time and effort. He was nice to geature to me to compensate for the top up my petrol tank and buy me dinner after the visits. But I decline the offer as I myself was also heading down to the LFS to take a look. The visits prompted him and even propelled him even further to take up reefing to another greater heights. He was determined and very passionate to setup more tanks at home to satisfied his hunger for reefing. So far, he has 5 tanks and even A.T has visted his hse and has seen for himself. I believe tat with A.T seeing Kenny in person, also subjects himself being query abt his doings. Previously I have bought corals and fishes from him and it was prices tat I quote and not prices from him. Transactions was made when both of us agreed to the terms and pricing reached. My dealings with him is to me fair n just. I would not burge in the sale if the pricing are unfair and unjust.

A word of cautions. Always asks when in doubt,esp when u urself are there personally. To me, the transaction would fall through I am not comfortable with the sales. Remember YOU got a choice. When u made a decision to buy, u have already made tat choice to buy. And U are responsible for that decision u made!

The temtation to get the corals/fishes is mostly impulsive. Sometimes I too would still buy from shops although the fishes are not feeding. WHY ? I would rather buy and try with luck as I wouldn't want to miss such a opportunity to miss such a gem or beauty. In the end, the fish died in my tank but I know the chances of the fish dying at 50/50 but I do not blame the LFS for selling to me in the first place. I only got myself to blame for the impulsiveness and greed.

Colors of the corals depends on the lighting. Conditions of the fishes and corals depends mostly on the water perimeter and livestocks tat u had in ur tank too. A fish tat don't eat when u buy, could be sick or even stressed out. The chances are usually 50/50 survival. Happy reefing. Peace

[Reefaholic]

LFS is doing a biz. Reefers who behave like LFS should be SRC sponsor, not reefers selling 2nd hand stuff in pasar malam

Did the LFS tell you tt the fish has been there for one year and has been eating well? If he did and it is not true, technically, you can demand for refund

Otherwise, consumers take a calculated risk when they bought the LS, especially new shipment

In SRC pasar malam, buyers look for bargain as the items sold are 2nd hand (regardless wether used or new, it is still 2nd hand) and sellers don't make commercial profit (if they do, they should be SRC sponsor)

In a way, it is also good to have such an ëxpose so that we can avoid falling into the same pain. But to many people, special offer always outweigh the cautions and warnings, and history often repeats itself

This LinkinPark is still aliVE???

Never see so long, come out only, in this type of thread??? WAHAHA...

Good, i treat you my popcorn.

[cci[RR]us]

These guys will always be around us. No surprise that they are found in this reefing community. A reputation system may help to solve this. Think along the line of eBay.

We can also advise buyers / sellers to do some basic survey on the other party before any transaction. This may be a form of a search for threads about him/her, or PM the others who had previous dealings with the party.