sand a must?

[ohgnehc]

all gurus,

I would like to check with you all, is sand a must for setting up a marine tank?

i plan to keep corals and fishes.

[RX_GAN]

not a must...

just a choice...but u will need live rocks if no sand at all.

my tank only have some puddle of sand...

[ohgnehc]

i went to ask the price of sand at rainbow, $12 for 2kg.

[kokhui]

Go next door lah

[jervismun]

Not a must... but without sand... there are critters and fishes you can't keep

[RX_GAN]

i get them at ten dollars for ten kg....

ya true...cannot keep sand dollar when there is no sand..hahah.

sand goby...mandarin...

but i got a pellet train mandarin so it's okay...

for the start it's better to get a DSB or at least a sand bed...

without one...there is alot of complications...

for a new starter...work into having a sandbed which will be more stable in long run.

good luck...and look for coral sand or aragonite sand...

dun go and buy the wrong freshwater sand. hahaha...then it's bad...

becos wrong substrate may contain diff. contents...like silicate and phos...so be careful.

[ohgnehc]

Go next door lah

today i went down their neighbour closed.

any idea how much next door selling?

[RX_GAN]

hey, u wan sand ar ? i got one bucket...sell u ba...come and collect in tampines.

[ohgnehc]

hey, u wan sand ar ? i got one bucket...sell u ba...come and collect in tampines.

Hi,

your sand is grade what one huh?

are they enuff to fill up a 2ft tank.

[Qxnviolet]

Hrmz, try not to buy anything from R*****W. Their stuff are normally more expensive. They've closed down their marine section already i think.

Personally i feel sand isn't something thats critical to a system, i just think a tank would look nicer with a layer of clean white sand....

[Alvin Tan]

not a must...

just a choice...but u will need live rocks if no sand at all.

my tank only have some puddle of sand...

bro...jus to clarify something....does it mean that if there is sand..there is no need for LRs?...

jus my thoughts here...if you intend to put sand, be sure that there is sufficient flow throughout the bottom if not the sand will start trapping those detritus and that will be alot of trouble for you in the future....

just my thoughts..

[Underwater]

today i went down their neighbour closed.

any idea how much next door selling?

Next door is Petmart, one of our sponsors here. What i can say is Petmart definitely sell much cheaper than its neighbour. You can always give them a call to check the prices, the staff there are friendly.

[ohgnehc]

think i will try and do without sand.

[RX_GAN]

okay...no choice...think i need to step in to clarify things and also give some explanations on sands...

okay...first.. there are alot of sand avail out there...

from freshwater to saltwater...

the common ones and cheaper ones are coral sands...

and the most expensive ones are aragonite sands...

If u count in mud, then i think they are the most expensive.

but mud is not use in main tank...mainly in refugium for it's high concentration in trace elements..

and also the iodine in it...

okay..we tok abt mud next time...

for the normal coral sands..there are many grades avail...

and this depends on the users...

some prefer bigger grade.

the smaller the more effective in collecting dirt on top of it...and u can see the dirts and uneaten food clearly on top on sand...it must seem unslightly but it is also better because u can siphon them out or clear the sand by good circulation...

for bigger grades, u can find more dirt collection in the layer of sand becos of the particle size and space between each sand particle..this causes nitrate buildup in the sand bed overtime.

for a start if u are having an underground gravel to filter out the dirts...it's best to have coral chips at the bottom following with bigger grades on top..it is due to the fact that the water will sip thru to the bottom and get filter out...

but if u just keeping only a deep sand bed..

it's ur own choice to choose the grade...

and aragonite sand will contribute to the carbonate and calcium in ur tank so it's perfect for coral tanks...contributing to natural balance..

okay..live sand and live rocks...both are used as a mean of biological filtration because anaerobic and aerobic bacterias can thrive in them to breakdown ur nitrite, ammonia and nitrate(anaerobic).

anaerobic reaction occurs in the lack of light. and this is highly prized for breakdown of nitrate.that's why u can find some biological filtration medium so expensive as they are claim to house these bacterias..

live rocks and sand been porus in natural allow for natural filtration...

but that's because live rock is used as a psychological thingy in a marine system just like live sand...

imagine ur fish looking at ur bare-bottom tank...silver and shining...how they feel ?

a tank without live sand and rock will have a higher failure in keeping fishes due to stress and shock. they will find it hard to acclimate in ur tank.

so for those without sand bed will take a longer time to acclimate their new stocks.

and for those with live rock...it's hell....

just imagine all ur fishes no rocks to hide...

it's like one day the world be without building and everyone just stand on a big piece of green.

u look at me and i look at u. and they will be more aggressive.

so are ur fishes...no where to hide and the bigger ones will fight for more territory.

just like the barbarians in the wild fighting over the greenlands.

live rocks allow ur livestock to mark their territory.and live sand allows for some sand dwelling creautures to thrive in it.

so live rock is normally used in this manner.

if u consider it's biological function..u can do without it if u have live sand or other biological filter.

that's why u have artificial live rocks.

cheers.

for a starter...i will suggest live sand and live rock becos the very fact that u need biological function..

u can have no sand but u are just starting up...i just fear that ur system will crash if not enough biological filter then u will need to empty the tank and start all over again.

take things one step at a time..to maintain a tank without sand need some skills and experience in the field and understanding of the whole system. or else if everything off balance...system crash and everything is gone.

when u are familar with things, u can slowly find alternative biological means...maybe by using a mud refugium..that's something more advanced and expensive.

for a 2ft tank, live sand is good in case ur bioload is too great.

[RX_GAN]

and underwater...he got one of the best sandbed around. u can consult him too.

his sand bed is really neat and clean compare to others...

and if without sand...ur dirts and stuffs will just be ontop of the glass...very ugly also...

see u tonight. then i tell u more...

[Alvin Tan]

okay...no choice...think i need to step in to clarify things and also give some explanations on sands...

okay...first.. there are alot of sand avail out there...

from freshwater to saltwater...

the common ones and cheaper ones are coral sands...

and the most expensive ones are aragonite sands...

If u count in mud, then i think they are the most expensive.

but mud is not use in main tank...mainly in refugium for it's high concentration in trace elements..

and also the iodine in it...

okay..we tok abt mud next time...

for the normal coral sands..there are many grades avail...

and this depends on the users...

some prefer bigger grade.

the smaller the more effective in collecting dirt on top of it...and u can see the dirts and uneaten food clearly on top on sand...it must seem unslightly but it is also better because u can siphon them out or clear the sand by good circulation...

for bigger grades, u can find more dirt collection in the layer of sand becos of the particle size and space between each sand particle..this causes nitrate buildup in the sand bed overtime.

for a start if u are having an underground gravel to filter out the dirts...it's best to have coral chips at the bottom following with bigger grades on top..it is due to the fact that the water will sip thru to the bottom and get filter out...

but if u just keeping only a deep sand bed..

it's ur own choice to choose the grade...

and aragonite sand will contribute to the carbonate and calcium in ur tank so it's perfect for coral tanks...contributing to natural balance..

okay..live sand and live rocks...both are used as a mean of biological filtration because anaerobic and aerobic bacterias can thrive in them to breakdown ur nitrite, ammonia and nitrate(anaerobic).

anaerobic reaction occurs in the lack of light. and this is highly prized for breakdown of nitrate.that's why u can find some biological filtration medium so expensive as they are claim to house these bacterias..

live rocks and sand been porus in natural allow for natural filtration...

but that's because live rock is used as a psychological thingy in a marine system just like live sand...

imagine ur fish looking at ur bare-bottom tank...silver and shining...how they feel ?

a tank without live sand and rock will have a higher failure in keeping fishes due to stress and shock. they will find it hard to acclimate in ur tank.

so for those without sand bed will take a longer time to acclimate their new stocks.

and for those with live rock...it's hell....

just imagine all ur fishes no rocks to hide...

it's like one day the world be without building and everyone just stand on a big piece of green.

u look at me and i look at u. and they will be more aggressive.

so are ur fishes...no where to hide and the bigger ones will fight for more territory.

just like the barbarians in the wild fighting over the greenlands.

live rocks allow ur livestock to mark their territory.and live sand allows for some sand dwelling creautures to thrive in it.

so live rock is normally used in this manner.

if u consider it's biological function..u can do without it if u have live sand or other biological filter.

that's why u have artificial live rocks.

cheers.

for a starter...i will suggest live sand and live rock becos the very fact that u need biological function..

u can have no sand but u are just starting up...i just fear that ur system will crash if not enough biological filter then u will need to empty the tank and start all over again.

take things one step at a time..to maintain a tank without sand need some skills and experience in the field and understanding of the whole system. or else if everything off balance...system crash and everything is gone.

when u are familar with things, u can slowly find alternative biological means...maybe by using a mud refugium..that's something more advanced and expensive.

for a 2ft tank, live sand is good in case ur bioload is too great.

IMO, based on the various systems that are used to keeping a marine tank. NOT all systems are suitable for a sandbed..

for a canister filter, it isn't possible to drive the detritus off the sand, in other words, isn't bare bottom a gd method for siphoning up those detritus to prevent a NO3 buildup??...gradually, you will experience high po4 too...

for a overflow system, it is possible to jet the returned water to drive those detritus off the sandbed and into the overflow box, of cos, with the additional help of powerheads, wave maker and etc...

it isn't practical to use several wave makers to drive out those detritus when using a canister filter. what if 1 of the power heads conk out?....you will have problem taking it out from the rockscape rite...? with livesand, i feel that it is still necessary to add LRs for the fish as well as corals.

that is the reason i support BB....DSB have its pros and cons...so do BB...but using DSB, be sure to have the proper initial setup if not in the near future, you will face diatoms, algae blooms within your sand bed..

are there any opinions feel free to share...

[ohgnehc]

Got the sand last night, having a 8cm thick sand bed now. considered DSB?

RX, thanks for the explanations and help...

[RX_GAN]

3inch sandbed...think it's enough la..u use up all the sand ar ?

that's enough for a small system le...

if there's anything, just let me. call me or pm me ba.

btw, how do i address u ? hahhaa..

[ohgnehc]

yup, used up all the sand...

Do i need to keep some?

my name ah,,, its the nick lor, you read from behind. lol

[RX_GAN]

oic...no la..was wondering if it will be too much sand for ur tank but seems just right.

good lor. good luck then.

[ah fat]

how to identify freshwater sand?

looking at this thread i somehow felt that the sand im using now is freshwater.

because it is neither argonite sand or coral chips

so what will happen next?

[Thexder]

how to identify freshwater sand?

looking at this thread i somehow felt that the sand im using now is freshwater.

because it is neither argonite sand or coral chips

so what will happen next?

I read that you can test the sand. Take some of the sand and pour vinegar on it. If it fizzes and dissolves, then its probably marine sand which contains calcium carbonate. Normal silica based sand won't have any reaction.

[aftermath]

i get them at ten dollars for ten kg....

ya true...cannot keep sand dollar when there is no sand..hahah.

sand goby...mandarin...

but i got a pellet train mandarin so it's okay...

for the start it's better to get a DSB or at least a sand bed...

without one...there is alot of complications...

for a new starter...work into having a sandbed which will be more stable in long run.

good luck...and look for coral sand or aragonite sand...

dun go and buy the wrong freshwater sand. hahaha...then it's bad...

becos wrong substrate may contain diff. contents...like silicate and phos...so be careful.

where to buy aragonite sand?

issit expensive?

was hoping to put in my 1ft tank leh.....

[RX_GAN]

aragonite sand is very expensive depending on the brand but it's considered the most expensive around.. i think petmart do sell them. u can go look around.

but if u just looking for coral sand for ur tank, just gimme a call or sms me at 81968903.

can bring u to look around.

[searching4dan]

imo..depend how ur scape ur LRS and stuff..

iwarna have a SPS tank

if i can remember it clearly, its no SAND bottom oso damn nice..