my shark tank

[southpaw23]

ok...i just re-read..if you were only refering to fishes then my example dont count either....

But even in the case of fishes...still doesn't quite hold true....by advocating that, you're also saying that it's ok to keep a baby tang in a 1 feet cube and it'll only grow as big as the tank allows...

All fishes have minimum space requirements, which is why websites like liveaquaria specifies minimum tank sizes for different species of fishes...same would apply to sharks...more so in fact....

Read the FAQ link i posted previously....it should give you pretty good insight to common misconceptions of ppl when lookin at keeping sharks..

[Underwater]

thx for all your comment, i will take note, so far they swim non stop in my tank sufficent for them, my tank is 84 x 36 x 30 and sump is 72 x 30 x 20. With advice from CF, the OM told me i can have 5 in my tank.

CF says it's ok to have 5 black tip sharks in a 84' tank?? What kind of advice CF is giving?

Btw, l always believe tt sharks, being endangered to extinction soon, are better left in the ocean to be admired, not in home tanks or worse, in restuarants to be served as shark fins soup .

[flamey]

worse, in restuarants to be served as shark fins soup  .

totally agree with you bro... i simply cant understand(or accept) the fact that a whole shark is killed for the fins...

i dont see a need for us to keep such fishes in our tank either... we definitely cant provide for it...

[hammy]

ok...i just re-read..if you were only refering to fishes then my example dont count either....

But even in the case of fishes...still doesn't quite hold true....by advocating that, you're also saying that it's ok to keep a baby tang in a 1 feet cube and it'll only grow as big as the tank allows...

All fishes have minimum space requirements, which is why websites like liveaquaria specifies minimum tank sizes for different species of fishes...same would apply to sharks...more so in fact....

Read the FAQ link i posted previously....it should give you pretty good insight to common misconceptions of ppl when lookin at keeping sharks..

sometime when i look at liveaquaria recommendation, i think i can only keep clownfishes hehe

[jervismun]

Maybe here's sorta good news for Shark lovers...

Nowadays, most Chinese restaurants serve fake sharksfin anyway... especially those affordable packages... in Malaysia, 8 out of 10 CNY dinners serve fake fins nowdays... some call it agar-agar... some call it Japanese sharksfin (those golden colour used in Sushi).

Looking at the trend... in a year or two... unless you are filthy rich... you will have difficulty tasting real sharksfin anyway

But that doesn't mean that Sharks are safe... it's just that... we can't pay what the China Chinese can pay anymore

[johntanjm]

Sorry buddy but your logic is not making much sense...if we go by your logic then technically if i kept you in a 3'x3'x3' room as you were growing up..will u only be 3 feet tall?

Every species has an optimum size they will grow out to. In the case of sharks and fishes, when you limit the tank size, it's not the tank that'll limit its growth directly but many factors like feeding, swimming space etc...

I'm trying to find the article for you but bottom line is that you can't limit a shark to 2 feet in length just by keeping him in a small tank....he WILL DIE....

i think you misunderstood me. every living thing GENERALLY has sort of like a maximum size (not accounting for gene anomaly). HOWEVER, fish fall under a special class of living things that will continue growing and growing with no maximum size unless its restricted by its environment i.e. like the tunas living in the deep ocean can be bigger then a human being.

if you kept me in a 3ft tank, yes my height will be 3ft. but that's ridiculous. a more practical example is just like when you lift too much weights when u're young, your height growth is stunted and this is documented in medical records. ask your GP and he will confirm that.

if u limit the tank size, somehow nature will tell them, if u continue growing, u won't have place to swim so they will only hit a reach a certain size and stop growing. if i have a shark the size of my thumb, i believe he can live comfortably in a 2ft tank for a long time and will not grow bigger then what it's environment can provide for in terms of free swimming space, feeding etc.

Jervis u're looking for an articile to substantiate my point. I didn't read this off the net. I believe it came from either a secondary school or JC biology textbook. but its been a long while since i've been in JC and sec sch. maybe some of your kids can help us out.

[southpaw23]

i think you misunderstood me. every living thing GENERALLY has sort of like a maximum size (not accounting for gene anomaly). HOWEVER, fish fall under a special class of living things that will continue growing and growing with no maximum size unless its restricted by its environment i.e. like the tunas living in the deep ocean can be bigger then a human being.

if you kept me in a 3ft tank, yes my height will be 3ft. but that's ridiculous. a more practical example is just like when you lift too much weights when u're young, your height growth is stunted and this is documented in medical records. ask your GP and he will confirm that.

if u limit the tank size, somehow nature will tell them, if u continue growing, u won't have place to swim so they will only hit a reach a certain size and stop growing. if i have a shark the size of my thumb, i believe he can live comfortably in a 2ft tank for a long time and will not grow bigger then what it's environment can provide for in terms of free swimming space, feeding etc.

Jervis u're looking for an articile to substantiate my point. I didn't read this off the net. I believe it came from either a secondary school or JC biology textbook. but its been a long while since i've been in JC and sec sch. maybe some of your kids can help us out.

Ooo...interesting...we have a debate on our hands here... firstly, i hope no offense was taken through the past post, as this is merely a discussion and not meant to be taken personally...

Ok to address your point....i replied in my second post that i misread you making a reference to only fishes thus retract my example of u in a 3 foot box/tank etc...

With regards to your point on fishes, it still doesn't appear to hold water (pun not intended ) cos going by that logic, you're saying it's perfectly fine to raise a baby shark (say just over a feet in length) in say a 4 to 6 foot aquarium because due to the environment you'll be providing it, it won't outgrow the tank and can comfortably live it's entire life in that surrounding. That in itself sounds completely absurd.

So going by your logic again, why aren't tangs or clownfishes the size of sharks...or even whales for that matter...since their environment is the ocean and there should be no limitations to their growth? If you would like to factor in conditions like shallow waters limiting their growths, then fine, my next question would be why arent your tunas the size of sharks or whales....or a better question, why do different species of fishes still vary in size even tho they live in the same environment?

Again, going by your logic, there would never be a need for minimum tank sizes for fishes as all you would have to do is get them when they're babies and keep them in 2 feet tanks that will magically limit their growth to the size of ur tank thus allowing them to live their full lives happily without restrictions.

One point i will give to you tho is that yes, it is true that keeping a shark in a smaller sized enclosure, will infact limit it's growth. meaning, if you kept a 1.5 feet shark in a 6 foot aquarium, it won't ever reach the size of 6 feet through it's lifetime. But you're forgetting to check on what the ill effects are in limiting their growth like that? Most of these sharks kept in 6 foot aquariums, no matter how small they were bought...eventually DIE in these aquariums...no doubt to many reasons...but one can't deny that the space is a major factor to its demise.

Again, i will reiterate...not meant to cause conflict here...interesting discussion going thats all...and sorry to the thread owner cos we're dangerously veering

Apologies

[hammy]

i think you misunderstood me. every living thing GENERALLY has sort of like a maximum size (not accounting for gene anomaly). HOWEVER, fish fall under a special class of living things that will continue growing and growing with no maximum size unless its restricted by its environment i.e. like the tunas living in the deep ocean can be bigger then a human being.

if you kept me in a 3ft tank, yes my height will be 3ft. but that's ridiculous. a more practical example is just like when you lift too much weights when u're young, your height growth is stunted and this is documented in medical records. ask your GP and he will confirm that.

if u limit the tank size, somehow nature will tell them, if u continue growing, u won't have place to swim so they will only hit a reach a certain size and stop growing. if i have a shark the size of my thumb, i believe he can live comfortably in a 2ft tank for a long time and will not grow bigger then what it's environment can provide for in terms of free swimming space, feeding etc.

Jervis u're looking for an articile to substantiate my point. I didn't read this off the net. I believe it came from either a secondary school or JC biology textbook. but its been a long while since i've been in JC and sec sch. maybe some of your kids can help us out.

How big will your fish get to ......

[southpaw23]

dang hammy...had u posted five minutes earlier, you'da saved me a whole lotta writing....haha

[hammy]

dang hammy...had u posted five minutes earlier, you'da saved me a whole lotta writing....haha

well...

[borinz]

hmmm i think the tank size only limits the growth time taken for a fish to reach its max size... lets say the shark can grow from 1 feet to 2 feet long in the wild in 1 mth, but when its restricted in the tank, the time taken to grow to 2 feet is maybe 3 mths?? i am not sure how true this logic is if nt can someone correct me??

As for bro Maculosus, i think he only wish to own those sharks till they are big enough to be sent to the underwater world.... he is nt out to kill these lovely creatures... just like when a reefer have a 2 feet tank but he wish to keep few tangs... he can only keep those which is 2 inches big... but when they grow big, he have to catch them out...

All above are my personal opnions only... nt to help bro Maculosus or to offend others...

Cheers

[Maculosus]

hmmm i think the tank size only limits the growth time taken for a fish to reach its max size... lets say the shark can grow from 1 feet to 2 feet long in the wild in 1 mth, but when its restricted in the tank, the time taken to grow to 2 feet is maybe 3 mths?? i am not sure how true this logic is if nt can someone correct me??

As for bro Maculosus, i think he only wish to own those sharks till they are big enough to be sent to the underwater world.... he is nt out to kill these lovely creatures... just like when a reefer have a 2 feet tank but he wish to keep few tangs... he can only keep those which is 2 inches big... but when they grow big, he have to catch them out...

All above are my personal opnions only... nt to help bro Maculosus or to offend others...

Cheers

i did as around about my volume and what i got from all LFS is "wats the length of your tank and dimension? When told 7ft by 3ft width, all of them say aiya can lah.

Maybe it is my fault not to study their requirement before putting them in my tank. 2 dacade in marine only angel fish. Thanks for all the comment and i agree with bro borinz, i will not kill kill them if they grow i think i cant handle them they will next swim in underwater world.

[jervismun]

You can consider the Sentosa IR too... I hope you don't get too offended here... keeping Sharks is always a very sensitive subject in most forums

All the best to you and your Black Tips

[Maculosus]

You can consider the Sentosa IR too... I hope you don't get too offended here... keeping Sharks is always a very sensitive subject in most forums

All the best to you and your Black Tips

bro, no offend too.

[kelstorm]

Maybe here's sorta good news for Shark lovers...

Nowadays, most Chinese restaurants serve fake sharksfin anyway... especially those affordable packages... in Malaysia, 8 out of 10 CNY dinners serve fake fins nowdays... some call it agar-agar... some call it Japanese sharksfin (those golden colour used in Sushi).

Looking at the trend... in a year or two... unless you are filthy rich... you will have difficulty tasting real sharksfin anyway

But that doesn't mean that Sharks are safe... it's just that... we can't pay what the China Chinese can pay anymore

that is not true. If there is no demand, there will be no supply. I stopped eating sharks fins over 4 yrs ago.. still refused to eat them during wedding dinners.

[johntanjm]

hahahaha! full fledge debate eh? i must say that thinking back abt the 'put me in a 3ft' tank, that really tickles me tho. haha!

my next question would be why arent your tunas the size of sharks or whales....

http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/efc/outerbay.asp monterey bay is one of the world's forefront marine labs and that's where i learnt abt the tuna that i believe to be many times my size.

better question, why do different species of fishes still vary in size even tho they live in the same environment?

you already said it yourself, they are DIFFERENT speices, how would u expect them to react in the same way to their environemnt?

why aren't tangs or clownfishes the size of sharks...or even whales for that matter...since their environment is the ocean and there should be no limitations to their growth?

as for the tangs and smaller fishies, let me just refine my initial claim. fish belongs to a special class of liviing things that will continue growing in size till they die. it just so happens that the die before they reach the size of a whale.

Again, going by your logic, there would never be a need for minimum tank sizes for fishes as all you would have to do is get them when they're babies and keep them in 2 feet tanks that will magically limit their growth to the size of ur tank thus allowing them to live their full lives happily without restrictions.

buy me a baby shark, i'll keep it in my 2ft tank and show u. if it lives, i keep the shark. if it dies i give u full refund? tsk! ahbeng's shop had 2 shark sacs. maybe those are great to begin with.

eventually DIE in these aquariums...no doubt to many reasons...but one can't deny that the space is a major factor to its demise.

EVERYTHING WILL DIE eventually. limited space = lesser volume = more variation in water quality and that's a general reefing rule eh? i don't think there's any claim that space is DIRECTLY the cause of fish death.

at the end it comes down to die sooner or later. people claim fish in the wild live longer, then there are those who claim that thats not the case, they can live equally long in a captive environment. if you provide for the shark, give them food, give them good water, i think u're responsible owner so by all means keep the shark.

alright southpaw, hahahaha! we should have like a small court like that ah. then pick a jury of reefers and then debate all the way. hahahahahha! typing so much is just UGH. and i think quite tiring to read also ah. hahaha

[jervismun]

This thread is getting a little out of hand...

Good that through here we do know more about individual reefers and where we stand... and I really bro Kelstorm for his boycott of sharksfin related dishes... in my case it will be rude to refuse a bowl of sharksfin offered by a fellow business partner or a client... that's why I will opt for man-made fins whenever possible... coz it doesn't matter in the end... what matters is the culture and respect that comes with that dish... that's the reason why Disneyland Hong Kong can't take this dish off their menu even with heated protests

[BFG]

Just a few concern question.

1) How are you going to transport the shark to the UWW at Sentosa when it reach sizes near to adult specimen? Put it in a bag and drop it at the entrance? Sharks need well oxygenated water and to get it, it will be in constant move. How will you solve the transportation problem?

2) Safety. What if the shark gets stressed now in your tank and it speed up and jump out of the tank. How are you going to place it back into the tank? What if someday it bite your hand and you are the only one in the house? Who is going to help you then?

3) Diet. Are the sharks in your tank well fed and being fed a variety of diet? Lack of certain type of nutrient may impede it's growth.

A shark is a shark no matter what species it is. It is dangerous and risky to own one. As you pointed out that you have been keeping angels for 2 decade but it is in a different league when it comes to shark. The outcome might not be favourable to you or your pet shark, Maculosus.

Hope you are not offended by these concern question.

[bluezing]

bruno in da house!!! :D

[Maculosus]

Just a few concern question.

1) How are you going to transport the shark to the UWW at Sentosa when it reach sizes near to adult specimen? Put it in a bag and drop it at the entrance? Sharks need well oxygenated water and to get it, it will be in constant move. How will you solve the transportation problem?

2) Safety. What if the shark gets stressed now in your tank and it speed up and jump out of the tank. How are you going to place it back into the tank? What if someday it bite your hand and you are the only one in the house? Who is going to help you then?

3) Diet. Are the sharks in your tank well fed and being fed a variety of diet? Lack of certain type of nutrient may impede it's growth.

A shark is a shark no matter what species it is. It is dangerous and risky to own one. As you pointed out that you have been keeping angels for 2 decade but it is in a different league when it comes to shark. The outcome might not be favourable to you or your pet shark, Maculosus.

Hope you are not offended by these concern question.

1) How are you going to transport the shark to the UWW at Sentosa when it reach sizes near to adult specimen?

1st what do you mean by adult specimen? 48 inches or 60 inches? if the tank is 72inches long example and the shark is 15 inches, in time, the shark will not grow to 3ft or 4ft, max it will grow to the size 30 inches.

2) Put it in a bag and drop it at the entrance? Sharks need well oxygenated water and to get it, it will be in constant move. How will you solve the transportation problem?

Call up UWW to collect. Reefer who knew me or ever bought fish from me knew how i packed the fish for them with oxygen.

3)Safety. What if the shark gets stressed now in your tank and it speed up and jump out of the tank. How are you going to place it back into the tank? What if someday it bite your hand and you are the only one in the house? Who is going to help you then?

1st, my tank is fully covered. Bro bro, this is a black tip not ' GREAT WHITE shark' lah.( bro you watch too much JAW movie liao)(joking)

4) Diet. Are the sharks in your tank well fed and being fed a variety of diet? Lack of certain type of nutrient may impede it's growth.

of course give them food like squid, fresh fish not pellets or brine shrimp right?

5) A shark is a shark no matter what species it is. It is dangerous and risky to own one. As you pointed out that you have been keeping angels for 2 decade but it is in a different league when it comes to shark. The outcome might not be favourable to you or your pet shark, Maculosus.

Yes 2 dacade of exprience, work for marine fish farm age of 9 now 34, i am more or only exprience in angel fish ( exprience not expert) not even exprience in other. I am not expert, i only call those who success in sps a real expert Doctor also have specialist i am sure all know what i mean. Shark is a new exprience to me,

Lastly, all this debate will not end, let S.T.O.P it here, btw bro Bigbird is maculosus, i had lost my password of bigbird.

Hope the story ends here. Thats all folk.

[jacobus]

dun mean to be extra but ... there are 2 kinds of sharks... those that have muscles in their gills to "suck" water in to "breathe". i.e. grey nurse sharks and those that cannot "suck" and rely on either constant movement to bring water thru their gills or on strong currents to force water into their gills( they use this method when copulating ) i believe black tips are in this category.

to transport that u will need a lot of cordination between UW and you as it will require a fair bit of resources like a large tub, a strong pump to force water into the sharks gills as the transport would not have enough sapce for the shark to swim about.

hope this sheds some light .

[Aldaris]

i dont know if i am a noob or you are a fool.

most wont even dare to put a shark in such confinement, let alone dream about it.

for keeping 2 sharks, you still dare to put in so many large angels and moorish idols?

you gotta be kidding.

wake up man.

i know i am harsh.but thats the fact.

[cyder_15]

Hey people,

I think he just wants to post some pictures so lets stop being too judgemental here. This is a memeber tanks and specs column, perhaps we should discuss this issue somewhere else? I believe he wants the best for his fish too so relax yah, no reason to get so worked up here. Lets just comment about his tank and maybe if you want to advice or criticise him you should just drop him a PM?

Cheers

[colinsoon]

dats e reason why so many people refuses to post pictures of their tanks and specs here. people here juz flame and flame and flame. come on la. so wat if his shark is in a 7 footer. its definitely bigger den almost all your tanks here. wait till it grows up den we talk bout it. not like he is killing them sharks like we know 1 reefer does.

if you wanna talk bout how happy fishes are in your tank, unless u r having a 10,000 gallon tank, otherwise you all should not be keeping tangs 3inches and above. you are still imprisoning them. is there a difference with caging u up in a 1 room flat or 3 room flat? u r still being caged. u cage me up in toa payoh, i call that a difference.

so grow up and stop flaming people. wanna be harsh bout things, ask that fella for his add, visit his tank, LOOK at it den be harsh to him face to face. tell me when u do it, cos i wanna see you do it. if u haf e guts to.

bunch of keyboard heros.

juz a word of advice, bro Maculosus, read up more bout em sharks and their ways of life. i am sure u have been doing that a lot, but no harm doing more. i am juz worried someday your angels and bannerfishes go missing. haha

[acidjazz]

I stand by Maculosus. Dun mind the flaming, its a bad habit that's hard to change.

just to add, the sky is bigger than the ocean. . how about those people who keep birds in this tiny cage not bigger than 1ft by 1ft. how about those who keep snakes and feed little hamsters as food. . wad's wrong with u folks.