Dwarf Lionfish with damsels

[Sho]

Hi gers and guys,

I'm planning a zebra lionfish tank with damsels as tankmates. Since damsels are very fierce, I think they can be tankmates for a lionfish.

Planning for a single lion and 3 damsels. Home will be a 2ft tank without live rocks. Is it possible or the damsels will end up as lion food, or worse, the damsels are so aggressive that they can harass the lion?

Any advise is appreciated. Thanks!

(btw, I just got a 3 spot domino damsel last night. He's very active and very fierce. Constantly attacking his reflection and roams the whole tank like he owns it. Is he a bit too aggressive? Never seen a fish with such spunk before. )

[rainbowdarter]

Its better to have LR as your lion will hang on it or for your damsels to play hide and seek with the lion. As long as your damsels size are big than the lion mouth, then it OK. Lion has its way defending when being attack. I afraid your damsels will kena arrow by the lion.

Anyway where u bought yor lion? got sell big one?

[Sho]

No, I haven't get the lion yet. I'm still looking around for a small zebra lion. So die die must have rocks?

[Venezia]

It is possible if damsel lives in lion's mouth. U should read up more on lion fishes

[Sho]

It is possible if damsel lives in lion's mouth. U should read up more on lion fishes

well... If the lion's mouth by anytime is always smaller than the damsel? The zebra max size is 7 inches while a domino damsel is 6 inches. I plan to let them grow up together, meaning I would most probably get a small lionfish.

So, is that possible?

Thanks for your comments.

[scubajazz]

Should be no problem, My colleague have setup 1 small tank, think around 1.5 ft or less and we use a overhead filter pump cause we convert from freshwater and use what we have.

We have the live rock and some coral run in for a week and add 2 damsel and 2 camel shrimp which survive well for another 2 week. We then add in a frog fish and a lion fish and all survive well with no casulty. Feed the 2 burger with live fresh water fish. Whole system run well for close to 2 mths and they grow and eat well. Last week just add in a nudi branch and the over the weekend whole tank crash, think the lion fish attack the nudi which gives out toxin to protect itself, everything except for the frog and a shrimp which is well at another tank.

FYI after adding in the predator, if you add other fish they will be eaten up instantly by the frog fish. If u need to need to add buy extra to prepare for casulty. According to the Fish shop they say damsel are smart fish which will remember the environment, but they still need to adapt and learn what is dangerous for them and what is safe.

Now in the process of re-setup again, so sad, the lion was growing real pretty and active.

[rainbowdarter]

No, I haven't get the lion yet. I'm still looking around for a small zebra lion. So die die must have rocks?

Unless your filteration can support the bio load

[Sho]

scubajazz, thanks for your input. May I know the size comparison between your lion and the damsels? And sorry for your loss. Personally, I felt that nudi should never be kept in small tank. It can easily deplete out its food source and is a ticking time-bomb when it dies. Hope your new tank will setup nicely.

rainbowdarter, I'm concerned about the tank bio-load too. I'm currently running on an Ehiem external canister and looking at 10% weekly waterchange.

I might have a couple of rocks with tonnes of macros on them, but I still prefer the stark and empty tank look, and it's easier to siphor any deterius.

[rainbowdarter]

That can be done. But as far as I'm concerned, we try to give them a best enviroment that they previously live in. It will not be 100% but at least make them feel comfortable and safe. Just my 2 cents.

Do inform me if you see any big Lion around. Cheers

[VanDeam]

totally possible i have 2 Volitan Lionfish living with 2 damsel for the last 2mths .. they did try to eat them but damsel too fast for them so far so good .. but accident do happen

[Sho]

Well, guys... I got the black volitan (looks like black to me...) last night. It is a beautiful specimen and I couldn't pass it up although I wanted a zebra in the first place. Size-wise is about 2.5 inch.

rainbowdarter,

I too, felt we should replicate the natural environment as much as we could. But I want to give this method a try. Besides, folks in the 80s started out in Fish Only tank, didn't they?

Most probably, I would get the rocks if the lion is really uncomfortable (how can I tell that? ) and the bio-load is too much to take.

PMed you about the latest lion supply.

VanDeam,

That's good news for me! My domino damsel is a beast and certainly not afraid of the lion. Seems like the lion purposely gets out of the damsel's path. Now who is the real lion?

[searching4dan]

different behaviour for different fishes..

even human, theres timid ones??

juz try ur luck bro

if u find ur damsels start disappearing.. lol.

myb u noe its time to do sometin..

[Sho]

Thanks for the advice!

Meanwhile the damsel is pretty much too big for the lion to swallow. Might happen at a later stage, but as for now, it is crease-fire period. lol

[Venezia]

Good Luck!! Do keep us updated

[rainbowdarter]

Sho,

can show the lion.....pic pls...

[Trigger Queen]

one morning, woke up to see a yellow fin dangling from my dwarf lion's mouth.

lion+damsels=bad

[scubajazz]

Just the smallest lionfish at Reborn, it is a peacock one. Was tempted to buy after my misadventure with the nudi branch that crash my tank. I resisted caused have to find very small baby fish or shrimp to feed it. Real beauty though when it open up.

[rainbowdarter]

Ask Henry, if its fins long then it's peacock. It could be 2 to 3 inches big. You see any big 6 to 9 inches black stripes lion around?

[Yapster]

will lions take initiative to eat market prawns chopped into small pieces sinking down the tank during feeding?

or are they lazy & sit there for food to drift within striking distance?

pardon my ignorance, am thinking of keeping lions as well.

thanks!

[rainbowdarter]

will lions take initiative to eat market prawns chopped into small pieces sinking down the tank during feeding?

or are they lazy & sit there for food to drift within striking distance?

pardon my ignorance, am thinking of keeping lions as well.

thanks!

Very rarely the Lion will chase the market prawn. U need to train them.

It takes time.

[Achilles Tang]

Get one of those transparent feeding sticks.... stick a thin wriggling slice of prawn meat and wriggle it infront of the lionfish.... sure whack one!

After that you can stick to dropping pieces in once it equates you with food and starts to investigate.

[Bali Brain]

Don't for a minute suppose that just because Damsels move so much faster than a Lion, it will never catch it. Lions hunt by stealth, and you can be sure that as long as the Damsel fits into the Lion's mouth it will catch and eat them. Here you have to measure the mouth from end to end (estimate lah, not put your hand in to measure) and that would roughly be the diameter) and judge if the Damsel can fit in. You'll be surprised how big the mouth can be. To be safe, I wouldn't put in any Damsel that's not at least more than half the size of the Lion (tail included).

[RX_GAN]

I have read many of the replies to this post and find that there are many misleading information. So let me correct some of the mistakes.

First is that… you can keep a lionfish with damsels if you did a proper acclimation.

Yes, a proper one. But by right it’s not recommended to keep a lionfish with small fishes.

Damsel is definitely considered small but they can grow bigger than a lionfish with care and proper husbandry in a big tank. I have one myself a few months back until I give it away.

Okay. First of all…why can damsel be place with lionfish? Because compare to other nano-fishes, they are fast and smart. And they can grow big.

Okay. Live rocks. Please don’t misunderstand the use of live rocks. In this case, they are not used for filtration but for hiding place. Lionfish are territory fishes and they don’t like lights. So during the day they will like to hide under the rocks and hunt at night.

The damsels also love to swim in and out of the rocks. It will be best for you to create a cave for your lionfish as it loves to hang upside down during day.

So please understand the need of the live rock. It’s the house for the lionfish and the damsels. It protects your damsels and also housed your lionfish. Your damsels can play hide and seek with your lionfish and I bet that with live rock, your damsels will be safe. The lionfish can’t get squeeze through those small craters and holes when your damsels swim around.

Just imagine a tank without live rock and just only your lionfish with damsels. So what will happen when your lionfish is hungry? What will you do if you are hungry and see food in front of you? MUNCH. You will grab them and eat. So the live rock can protect your damsels.

And the proper way to acclimate your lionfish is to off all your light and let it get familiarize with the area and the fishes in your tank. Off your lights for a day and try to keep it low for a few days as lionfish tends to be even shyer than your damsels.

Let it find a comfortable sleeping place. ?

When choosing your lionfish, it will be best to get one, which is feeding. Most of the lionfish doesn’t accept frozen food and only take live food. The problem with this is because our sources of marine fish are all capture in the wild. So you will need to train your lionfish to feed by giving it live brine shrimps and feeder shrimps for some time first and slowly substitute it with frozen food and dried food.

And I saw one of the worst mistake and reply here, which is to keep lionfish and frogfish (anglerfish) together. That’s the worst combination. You are lucky that they didn’t rip each other up but most of the time they will kill each other.

And having two such predators together is a worst thing even if they don’t rip up each other. Lionfish can eat anything, which they can fit into their food while frogfish can eat anything bigger than it. So it’s like keeping two killers together. And you already see the result of such a mistake. Even if the lionfish doesn’t rip the slug, then frogfish will do it nicely too. Don’t blame it on the lionfish but blame it on the ignorance of the owner. The other inverts and small fishes may seems to do well for some time but frogfish and lionfish are reputable predators for their feeding habits. They may not eat your fish for months but once they feel like it (most of the time), they will just gobble up your shrimp and fish one by one. And this is often cited as mysterious death at night.

And it’s really irresponsible to be stocking in excess because you hope that a few will survive. It’s not an irresponsible act and it’s the your responsibility to check for the compatibility of the livestock and not do it by trial and error.

It’s like putting in a few children with one lion and hope that a few will survived.

Even if they survive, they will be living with constant stress and will died of stress.

That’s another common source of death.

Another mistake is to feed your saltwater fish with freshwater fish. Your LFS will certainly say you can do that because they do that too. I can only tell you that your LFS will say anything to sell your stocks. I won’t be surprised that they will tell you that this is okay and that is okay when in fact, it’s not. Feeding them with freshwater fish can caused poisoning to the fish’s liver and long-term effect will cause your fishes to die prematurely. What I am saying here is not fiction but fact through scientific research.

If you pay a visit to USA, you will never hear anyone feeding marine fish with freshwater fish. You will only hear this in Singapore because freshwater fish is in abundant and food sources like feeder shrimps are harder to get. LFS will do anything to sell away their fishes. And in fact, many of them know nothing at all. It’s true.

I have been keeping 100 different types of fishes for years and normally I exchange my fishes with my LFS. I even once trade a nigger trigger and fire clown for two damsels.

It doesn’t matter to me because I treasure the experience more than anything else.

I used to keep 3 lionfish and what I have written here is all from my experience and what I have read up and research on. From a fish-only tank to a reef tank, I have many collections and have traded them all away. And now I am managing my reef tank with 3 slugs in it. Slugs are poisonous but with proper care and husbandry, everything is fine. I have a big Spanish dancer. With proper husbandry and care, you shouldn’t be thinking about death as a problem. Please be a responsive fish-lover. Feel free to email me on any questions, I will be glad to answer them.

[limsc]

Understand that the lionfish is poisonous. What to do if got accidentally sting by it? Just let it goes off by itself? Cos i am cycling my tank now. Thinking of keeping a lion. Thanks for the help in advance.

[VanDeam]

got sting once .. accidently just wash it with hot water .. AS hot as ur hand can take . then rush to the nearest clinic (thats wat book say)

i basicially was experiencing a Tank crashing so got sting i just wash and continue decomming .. thou was painful for 1-2hrs .. not sure of side effect finger still look healthy