RARE ZOANTHID

[bwilly]

not really. that's why he put his name n url on the pic.

in case ppl used it, n can refer to him.

I email him n see how it goes down with him. hiakhiak..

[Ricordia]

not really. that's why he put his name n url on the pic.

in case ppl used it, n can refer to him.

I email him n see how it goes down with him. hiakhiak..

????

He has included his name and web in his to easy facilitate anyone who uses his pic as a form of acknowledgement.

Also as a form of advertisement for him....

Because of the above .....you get to know his web.

Strange argument you have there...hehe....

When you email him....check with him whether he can send zoos to SIngapore.

I might be interested to buy from him tooo

[weileong]

Updated photo. Now the zoo is place further at the rear of the tank so difficult to photo properly. I epoxy it to the LR. Center green reducing and changing to blue color after one week under the MH.

Another zoo photo.

[[d]3v|L]

hey Ric, think my zoos coloring up already.. thanks anyway for those stuff.

btw weilong did u get those zoos from Ric? very nice

[weileong]

green one got from zoo, brown one from pasir ris.

Can't wait for the color to fully change.

[Ricordia]

green one got from zoo, brown one from pasir ris.

Can't wait for the color to fully change.

Why not fragging some of the zoos in your second pic.

I have some purple ones. We can do an exchange.....hehe

[reef-life]

Hello all, glad to see zoanthid fans in your corner of the globe. My name is Travis Staut, I am the photographer who took the picture.

Ricordia, you do NOT have my permission to use my photos and I think this thread is the perfect example of why- you are misrepresenting your corals as mine and people are certainly not getting what you advertised.

The fact that my name and URL are on there is not implied permission to use the photograph- just the opposite, it's a copyright notice telling you that you can't.

I'm not sure of the protection afforded to US copyrights overseas but if you continue to steal my photos and use them for your shady sales I will certainly find out.

I would like to warn everyone to NEVER buy a coral advertised in this fashion. How can you be sure what you're getting if the person doesn't post up a picture of the actual coral?

I have looked at the pics posted by those who purchased the zoanthids. I can tell you with absolute certainty those are not the zoanthids in my picture, nor will they ever look like them.

On a final note, I created my web site with minimal photo protections so that other reef keepers may enjoy my photos in their purest state. If problems like this continue, I will have to heavily watermark the photos and not allow people to download them for their computer desktops. My thanks to the person who alerted me to this unlawful usage of my photograph- it's people like Ricordia that will end up ruining it for everyone else. I urge you not to give this person your business. He has to know full well he is selling a different product than the one pictured- I think a blind man could see that.

Thank you, and happy reefing.

Travis E. Staut

[pospeh]

So the copyright owner has spoken.

It is damn embarrassing for this website to "lose its face" overseas.

On another note, we had similar discussions on the commercial sales made by ricordea in another thread, which in my opinon should not happen in this forum.

Frankly I am disgusted by the bait-and-switch tactic used by Ricordea--including his starting another sales thread by using another alias.

[Achilles Tang]

*in steps the administrator*

*shakes head*

Sigh! And I thought I will have some rest after Aquarama!

[Ricordia]

Hello all, glad to see zoanthid fans in your corner of the globe. My name is Travis Staut, I am the photographer who took the picture.

Ricordia, you do NOT have my permission to use my photos and I think this thread is the perfect example of why- you are misrepresenting your corals as mine and people are certainly not getting what you advertised.

The fact that my name and URL are on there is not implied permission to use the photograph- just the opposite, it's a copyright notice telling you that you can't.

I'm not sure of the protection afforded to US copyrights overseas but if you continue to steal my photos and use them for your shady sales I will certainly find out.

I would like to warn everyone to NEVER buy a coral advertised in this fashion. How can you be sure what you're getting if the person doesn't post up a picture of the actual coral?

I have looked at the pics posted by those who purchased the zoanthids. I can tell you with absolute certainty those are not the zoanthids in my picture, nor will they ever look like them.

On a final note, I created my web site with minimal photo protections so that other reef keepers may enjoy my photos in their purest state. If problems like this continue, I will have to heavily watermark the photos and not allow people to download them for their computer desktops. My thanks to the person who alerted me to this unlawful usage of my photograph- it's people like Ricordia that will end up ruining it for everyone else. I urge you not to give this person your business. He has to know full well he is selling a different product than the one pictured- I think a blind man could see that.

Thank you, and happy reefing.

Travis E. Staut

Hi Travis E. Staut,

I personally think you have gone a bit too harsh in your statements against my advertisement of your photo.

First of all, I am your frequent visitor to your website appreciating all your photography on marine life.

Secondly, In this case, there are no mispresentation....WHY?

When a reefer came to me for that zoos,

I explained to everyone of them that due to my cam was down at that time,

I temporary use your photo that resembled closest to my zoos.

I even went to the extent of describing the differences between the color of my zoos and in your pics. (eg. my zoos center is red rather than orange)

I have protected you in the best interest .

Thirdly, due to the lack of information in your website pertaining to the usage of your pics,

I took for granted in using your pics without your permission for this instance...

My sincere apologies to you.

However,...using "STEAL" in your statement seems unfair.

Why?

I have not delibrately alter the nature of your pic by editing away your name and your website address to make it mine.

In this case, "Steal" is not appropriate here.

Actually, with me posting up your picture here. I have good intentions of allowing

our fellow reefers aware there is actually such a wonderful website like yours exist in the internet.

Look at their comments in this thread. YOu will know what I mean.

I feel that there is some misunderstanding pertaining to this issue here, I personally feel that you should PM me first to clarify rather than otherwise.

I always hold you in high respect for your devotion to capturing the beauties of Marine Life, please do not let this misunderstanding spoil the air.

Nevertheless, I hope by clearing this misunderstanding...

we still can be friends.

Thank you.

Ricordia

[reef-life]

OK, I have had a bit of correspondence with Ricordia regarding this issue.

I believe he misunderstood copyright laws and I will certainly give him the benefit of the doubt on that. He has expressed to me that he went about this with the best intentions and acknowledged he now understands his mistake.

I don't hold anything against ricordia, he has agreed not to do this again and as far as I'm concerned the slate is clean.

He is correct that my web site needs to be more clear in copyright notification, and I will be correcting that soon.

No hard feelings ricordia.

Now... I would still urge everyone to either buy a coral from an actual pic or, if you must, a verbal description, but never from a pic of someone else's coral. Not just in Ricordia's case but from anyone.

Ricordia, an apology to you... I should have brought the copyright issue up in private messages rather than publicly. Sorry.

Travis

[Achilles Tang]

Cool... everything's cool.

Hi Reef-life and welcome to the Singapore Reef Club!

First off, I must say that you have AWESOME zooanthids!!! Care to share the average price of the nice specimens you got?

Achilles Tang

Founder and Administrator

Singapore Reef Club

[Ricordia]

OK, I have had a bit of correspondence with Ricordia regarding this issue.

I believe he misunderstood copyright laws and I will certainly give him the benefit of the doubt on that. He has expressed to me that he went about this with the best intentions and acknowledged he now understands his mistake.

I don't hold anything against ricordia, he has agreed not to do this again and as far as I'm concerned the slate is clean.

He is correct that my web site needs to be more clear in copyright notification, and I will be correcting that soon.

No hard feelings ricordia.

Now... I would still urge everyone to either buy a coral from an actual pic or, if you must, a verbal description, but never from a pic of someone else's coral. Not just in Ricordia's case but from anyone.

Ricordia, an apology to you... I should have brought the copyright issue up in private messages rather than publicly. Sorry.

Travis

Life is full of misunderstanding....

As long as misunderstanding is cleared, things get even better.

Actually from this incident, SRC becomes internationally known in a way.

Furthermore, We have a renown international marine photographer, Travis E. Staut ,as a new member in our forum.

Isn't that GREAT?

Thanks for the reply, Travis.

No hard feelings Travis.

I hope your stay in our forum will be a long lasting one.

And again welcome to Singapore Reef Club.

[reef-life]

Thanks for the compliments and warm welcome.

My zoanthids weren't that expensive, getting my collection was more labor than expense. Constantly checking LFS and online for those cherry-picking pieces.

Most of my zos came from bryan at thelogicalreef.com

Here's to new friends

Travis

[DeepBlue]

Warm welcome to SRC...great to have a great reefer and photographer here.

Hope you'll share more with us about zoanthids care. Also appreciate the clarification....just hope more of us will be aware of the right thing to do and not take it for granted. And I must say you have the one of the nicest zoos ard!

[bwilly]

maybe the mod should do something on this kind of "selling".

[Cookiemunster]

maybe the mod should do something on this kind of "selling".

I have to agree with bwilly on this. Theres nothing more I hate than a dishonest misrepresentation and then playing ignorance about it.

Local copyright laws are clear enough also.

Why not use your same excuse to sell Bak Kwa using the famous brand Bee Cheng Hiang (Mei Zhen Xiang) and see what happens. Using your reasoning, they both look the same, smell the same and hell may even taste the same. And you are helping Mei Zhen Xiang to advertise.

I'm sorry Ricordia, I have nothing against you personally but this incident is distasteful and no amount of excuses can cover the plain fact that your tactics here are shady (nice way of saying not so honest).

Zooanthids colours are highly dependent on the colour of the lighting and photographic settings. They ALL look brown under sunlight. And if exposed to too much MH will turn brown in the tank too. There is no such thing as it colouring up under intense MH light.

I really hope all sellers and buyers will beware and ask for actual photos or use actual photos be it beg or borrow a camera.

Personally I have had very bad experiences with sellers (not Ricordia) who claimed the item was such and such and when I went all the way down was far from it or totally a different brand.

[Ricordia]

Dear fellow reefers,

I feel that the person behind the scene should step out to identify yourself as such

noble acts by you should be known and praised.

I believe your nobleness certainly earn you some credits .As well as some discount for his product, maybe... just kidding.

From the way I look at this, since you are a kind and noble person, why not investing some of your excess time to do something which is even more noble and beneficial to our reefers here.

I will be more than happy enough to let you take over my place to share more colorful zoos and ricordias with our fellow reefers here. I will be more than willing to buy it from you, as all the trouble in getting them has cost me alot of my time and money.

However, in the event of doing so. I sincerely hope you do sell them by frags and not by colony. WHY?

I always believe in the event of doing so, more reefers can enjoy and own the

precious coral but at the same time we are not expoliting on mother nature due to excess demand for it.

Allowing the frag to develop into colonies in our tanks is what I want to achieve and promote to all the reefers here.

Although my efforts here seem be of minimal impact, I believe in times to come..

All will have this inculcate in their reef-keeping and mother nature destruction can be minimised.

A Further note to this, for those who actually addded " salt & pepper " to the previous misunderstanding is certainly not an act of a gentlemen. Regarding the flaming of my change of alias in pertaining with sales, please get the facts right before making such statements in public. It only shows much of your character.

Nevethless, I would like to apologise to the other fellow reefers here for any inconvenience caused.

Thank you.

Ricordia

[bwilly]

cookiemunster hey, tat's suppose to be my usual "ten-liners"

now wat am I going to say..??

I suppose with actual pic it will save the trouble

of some conflict n unhappiness, when both parties

meet up (esp buyer who went down to seller place)

n item are not as expected. imagine go from east to west,

esp for those without a vehicle, n the disappointment

of going back empty handed or short-changed.

won't do good esp for a young reefer who just started out.

btw, nice chatting with u, Travis.

oki, good of ric to comes out with this..

"Nevethless, I would like to apologise to the other fellow reefers here for any inconvenience caused."

but the rest of the paragraphs ..

eh hmm..no link at all??? u should be looking at yr own actions (seem

u still are not happy being exposed) rather than so keen to find out who has

email Travis.. *sigh..* a leopard never change its spots.. or is it a zebra??

anyway I rest my own issue on this..

[flubberina13]

Dear fellow reefers,

I feel that the person behind the scene should step out to identify yourself as such

noble acts by you should be known and praised.

I believe your nobleness certainly earn you some credits .As well as some discount for his product, maybe... just kidding.

From the way I look at this, since you are a kind and noble person, why not investing some of your excess time to do something which is even more noble and beneficial to our reefers here.

I will be more than happy enough to let you take over my place to share more colorful zoos and ricordias with our fellow reefers here. I will be more than willing to buy it from you, as all the trouble in getting them has cost me alot of my time and money.

However, in the event of doing so. I sincerely hope you do sell them by frags and not by colony. WHY?

I always believe in the event of doing so, more reefers can enjoy and own the

precious coral but at the same time we are not expoliting on mother nature due to excess demand for it.

Allowing the frag to develop into colonies in our tanks is what I want to achieve and promote to all the reefers here.

Although my efforts here seem be of minimal impact, I believe in times to come..

All will have this inculcate in their reef-keeping and mother nature destruction can be minimised.

A Further note to this, for those who actually addded " salt & pepper " to the previous misunderstanding is certainly not an act of a gentlemen. Regarding the flaming of my change of alias in pertaining with sales, please get the facts right before making such statements in public. It only shows much of your character.

Nevethless, I would like to apologise to the other fellow reefers here for any inconvenience caused.

Thank you.

Ricordia

Not a 'salt and spice' thing but would like to affirm that the person who did all this is indeed worthy of mention in character.

As you know that I have assisted AT in the preparation of the SRC 1st Anniversary celebrations in a 'tiny' way so that everybody will enjoy and without the help of this person, certain things that I did for the gathering wouldn't have been successul...he is indeed a noble though shy person so he doesn't like to bask in limelight so excuse him if he doesn't want to reveal himself and I believe he also doesn't like to be praised in public.

By saying this...I hope I wun cause any 'bolts of fire' thrown to him using the pretext of my contents...

Just wanna say that you need to know a person before judging his character.

Infact, I feel that he is protecting your interest too before things get really out of hand and it becomes too ugly for you all for the sake of selling some products...I wouldn't deny that you may have beautiful zoos and your latest strategy of using photographs of your own zoos will reflect better of your integrity and character... ...and dun reject me if I wanna buy from you in the future, can?

Let's just shake hands and get rid of any bad vibes from this episode and move on...I dun believe you would really want to spend a great amount of your time in such trifle matter and since misunderstanding between Travis has been cleared and indeed with a twist of fate...SRC has reached a new plateau...

And hey...Travis...welcome to the the forum of the country of the tiny red dot on the globe...your zoos are really beautiful and I believe zoos has better survival rate for export travel so pls...pls... do tell us your pricing for overseas delivery as I have fallen in love w them as I am basically a zoanthids collector besides mushrooms quite like many of my fellow comrades...

[Ricordia]

I have to agree with bwilly on this. Theres nothing more I hate than a dishonest misrepresentation and then playing ignorance about it.

Local copyright laws are clear enough also.

Why not use your same excuse to sell Bak Kwa using the famous brand Bee Cheng Hiang (Mei Zhen Xiang) and see what happens. Using your reasoning, they both look the same, smell the same and hell may even taste the same. And you are helping Mei Zhen Xiang to advertise.

I'm sorry Ricordia, I have nothing against you personally but this incident is distasteful and no amount of excuses can cover the plain fact that your tactics here are shady (nice way of saying not so honest).

Zooanthids colours are highly dependent on the colour of the lighting and photographic settings. They ALL look brown under sunlight. And if exposed to too much MH will turn brown in the tank too. There is no such thing as it colouring up under intense MH light.

I really hope all sellers and buyers will beware and ask for actual photos or use actual photos be it beg or borrow a camera.

Personally I have had very bad experiences with sellers (not Ricordia) who claimed the item was such and such and when I went all the way down was far from it or totally a different brand.

It is nothing more than a careless act due to the faulty camera. And Travis and I have already strike an understanding between ourselves.

Furthermore, I have not breached his interest by claiming the zoos are from him and start selling all over the net. Or even publicly selling his photography works for an instance.

I believe your analogy pertaining to the issue is not that relevant. Your analogy is pertaining more to a trademark or patent being violated rather than copyright laws.

Please refrain yourself from further spoiling the air between Travis and me as

pure misunderstanding has already been defined.

Maybe you should be thinking of other ways to improve and benefit SRC rather than doing this to stir more flames between Travis and me.

Your kind understanding is appreciated.

[pospeh]

A Further note to this, for those who actually addded " salt & pepper " to the previous misunderstanding is certainly not an act of a gentlemen. Regarding the flaming of my change of alias in pertaining with sales, please get the facts right before making such statements in public. It only shows much of your character.

Are you saying that the copyright owner has no right to know that his pictures are being used without his permission, and on top of it, in a deceptive way?

Even before the copyright owner was brought into this discussion, concerns were made to you on whether you had a right to use them. You categorically said that this is ok. So someone went to the owner to get his opinion. So how is that ungentlemanly?

I would say you are acting ungentlemanly after having been rebuked by the owner. Instead of being apologetic, and thanking the person who pointed this out to the owner, and clarifying the situation to everyone's benefit, you go on a witch hunt to find out who did it.

And why are you so intent to find out who did it? Does that affect the SUBSTANCE of this discussion? i.e., whether you had a right to use his photos?

Now about the alias thing. Well, the thread was started by "Zoos." If you had computer problems and could not get your old alias back and had to create a new alias, why didn't you say in the first sentence that you are Ricordea?

If this was eBay, you would have been banned already due to the complaints of the copyright owner, the providing of wrong specs on the goods you are selling, and the numerous negative comments you have received from buyers.

Last time it was several orders of ricordeas, now it is zoos. You are a regular commercial seller here. You really have no business doing commercial selling here as it is against the forum rules.

[Ricordia]

cookiemunster hey, tat's suppose to be my usual "ten-liners"

now wat am I going to say..??

I suppose with actual pic it will save the trouble

of some conflict n unhappiness, when both parties

meet up (esp buyer who went down to seller place)

n item are not as expected. imagine go from east to west,

esp for those without a vehicle, n the disappointment

of going back empty handed or short-changed.

won't do good esp for a young reefer who just started out.

btw, nice chatting with u, Travis.

oki, good of ric to comes out with this..

"Nevethless, I would like to apologise to the other fellow reefers here for any inconvenience caused."

but the rest of the paragraphs ..

eh hmm..no link at all??? u should be looking at yr own actions (seem

u still are not happy being exposed) rather than so keen to find out who has

email Travis.. *sigh..* a leopard never change its spots.. or is it a zebra??

anyway I rest my own issue on this..

quote:

oki, good of ric to comes out with this..

"Nevethless, I would like to apologise to the other fellow reefers here for any inconvenience caused."

but the rest of the paragraphs ..

eh hmm..no link at all??? u should be looking at yr own actions (seem

u still are not happy being exposed) rather than so keen to find out who has

email Travis.. *sigh..* a leopard never change its spots.. or is it a zebra??

anyway I rest my own issue on this..

REply:

unhappy being exposed?

It was a pure misunderstanding, what is there to expose?

I should be grateful to that person since he has indirectly letting me to know

Travis personally.

Pertaining to your idom ....doesn't seems fitting.

Anyway, do consider my suggestions seriously.

There is definitely a link as to what I sugggest as without the intention of sharing of the zoos, there will be no chance for that careless act to happen. Thus, creating a misunderstanding.

[Ricordia]

Are you saying that the copyright owner has no right to know that his pictures are being used without his permission, and on top of it, in a deceptive way?

Even before the copyright owner was brought into this discussion, concerns were made to you on whether you had a right to use them. You categorically said that this is ok. So someone went to the owner to get his opinion. So how is that ungentlemanly?

I would say you are acting ungentlemanly after having been rebuked by the owner. Instead of being apologetic, and thanking the person who pointed this out to the owner, and clarifying the situation to everyone's benefit, you go on a witch hunt to find out who did it.

And why are you so intent to find out who did it? Does that affect the SUBSTANCE of this discussion? i.e., whether you had a right to use his photos?

Now about the alias thing. Well, the thread was started by "Zoos." If you had computer problems and could not get your old alias back and had to create a new alias, why didn't you say in the first sentence that you are Ricordea?

If this was eBay, you would have been banned already due to the complaints of the copyright owner, the providing of wrong specs on the goods you are selling, and the numerous negative comments you have received from buyers.

Last time it was several orders of ricordeas, now it is zoos. You are a regular commercial seller here. You really have no business doing commercial selling here as it is against the forum rules.

It is a pure misunderstanding between Travis and me.

SO it is only fair for both of us only to iron out all the misunderstandings and doubts pertaining to that issue.

Unrelated Third party involvement in this case will worsen the misunderstanding between Travis and me.

Fortunately, this musiunderstanding has been resloved for this case.

I hope you understand what I am trying to highlight here.

As I said earlier, I should be thankful to that person who indirectly allowing me to know Travis personally through this incident.

Is that wrong?

Wrong specs of goods?

I have told them about the difference of color between my zoos and what is featured in the pic. (Eg. the center is red rather than yellow) , at that point of time when doing the trade.

I see no reasons why are you dwelling up something which I have already made clear in my reply to Travis.

If it is due our past experiences, you are trying to stir more misunderstanding between Travis and me ...then I have nothing more to say.

Your understanding will be appreciated.

[Ricordia]

Not a 'salt and spice' thing but would like to affirm that the person who did all this is indeed worthy of mention in character.

As you know that I have assisted AT in the preparation of the SRC 1st Anniversary celebrations in a 'tiny' way so that everybody will enjoy and without the help of this person, certain things that I did for the gathering wouldn't have been successul...he is indeed a noble though shy person so he doesn't like to bask in limelight so excuse him if he doesn't want to reveal himself and I believe he also doesn't like to be praised in public.

By saying this...I hope I wun cause any 'bolts of fire' thrown to him using the pretext of my contents...

Just wanna say that you need to know a person before judging his character.

Infact, I feel that he is protecting your interest too before things get really out of hand and it becomes too ugly for you all for the sake of selling some products...I wouldn't deny that you may have beautiful zoos and your latest strategy of using photographs of your own zoos will reflect better of your integrity and character... ...and dun reject me if I wanna buy from you in the future, can?

Let's just shake hands and get rid of any bad vibes from this episode and move on...I dun believe you would really want to spend a great amount of your time in such trifle matter and since misunderstanding between Travis has been cleared and indeed with a twist of fate...SRC has reached a new plateau...

And hey...Travis...welcome to the the forum of the country of the tiny red dot on the globe...your zoos are really beautiful and I believe zoos has better survival rate for export travel so pls...pls... do tell us your pricing for overseas delivery as I have fallen in love w them as I am basically a zoanthids collector besides mushrooms quite like many of my fellow comrades...

Anyway, I think you must have mistaken the " adding salt and pepper " I am trying to highlight.

It is not that person who notify Travis, but somebody else.

I should be thankful to him bceause of his actions...he actually provide me and all other SRC reefers to know him personally.

As pertaining to the first statement, above

As I have mentioned, it is only fair and appropriate to let Travis and me iron out

all misunderstandings.

Any other further remarks by unrelated third party to this issue may worsen the situation.

I hope you can understand what I am trying to say.