Brineshrimp Hatchery

[Achilles Tang]

The product name is misleading... it can never be a continous breeding place. You have to top up with brineshrimp cysts.

Rearing brineshrimp to adulthood is a lot of work.

[AquaRa]

oh. how big is an adult brineshrimp?

[KingFish]

anybody tried this b4?

sg do hav this brand....

According to another member, the local distributor does not seem interested to bring in.

I have a pending order of the Hatch N' Feeder from an online store who is willing to ship international.

Have not confirmed on it though, so if you want to ride on, PM me.

[pacificbetta]

AT/Wei/corals:

Duration before hatching also depend on the grade of the cysts and from where they are harvested from. We are very used to GSL cysts and top grade GSL cysts do hatch in about 18hrs, give and take some.

The hatchery that "corals" showed does work. It is a little publicised way of hatching. In fact, if used properly, the hatch rate is possibly higher than a poorly designed "coke bottle" model. But there are limitations with this design.

corals, try using premium grade GSL eggs, scatter a thin (and sparse) layer of the eggs on the water surface, do not let them sink and keep most from the edge of the dish. Keep device in a nominally lighted area. Then let us know what your hatch rate is.

[Achilles Tang]

In fact, if used properly, the hatch rate is possibly higher than a poorly designed "coke bottle" model. But there are limitations with this design.

Care to elaborate?

[pacificbetta]

Read: corals, try using premium grade GSL eggs, scatter a thin (and sparse) layer of the eggs on the water surface, do not let them sink and keep most from the edge of the dish. Keep device in a nominally lighted area. Then let us know what your hatch rate is.

[Achilles Tang]

Read:

In fact, if used properly, the hatch rate is possibly higher than a poorly designed "coke bottle" model.  But there are limitations with this design.

Care to elaborate?

[pacificbetta]

????????

[Achilles Tang]

!!!!!!!!!!

[pacificbetta]

I really am lost WHich part you do not understand?????????

!!!!!!!! #########^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@@@@@@@@@@@@@&&&&&&&&&&&&&

[Achilles Tang]

In fact, if used properly, the hatch rate is possibly higher than a poorly designed "coke bottle" model. 

Pls elaborate.

But there are limitations with this design.

Pls elaborate.

Now which part do you not understand?

[ruel]

Hi, anyone can tell me where to buy the BS cysts? tks

[Achilles Tang]

Ruel... good ones... import from www.brineshrimpdirect.com

So so ones - most LFS have them. Poorer hatch rates IMO.

[pacificbetta]

In a coke bottle design, there are 2 possible areas where viable eggs do not hatch:

1. Near the bottom of the hatchery. If you place the airline at the neck of the bottle, there is this area near the near that has poor circulation. When hatching dense amounts of cysts, this place tend to accumulate and block the hatching proceedure. If we place the airline near this area, then the neck becomes the zone of accumulation.

2. The rim of the bottle above the water line often also tend to acculmulate eggs. Granted this problem can be circumvented by adjusting the aeration, but it is a fine margin.

By scattering the cysts on a water surface, we can avoid both problems. I know this do not sound very convincing, try it out yourself and see if it works. It did for me as well as a few of my freshwater breeder friends. But the amount of cycts that can be hatched this way is very low, very very much lower than the coke bottle design. Also, such setups have a tendency to attract the unwanted attention of families/flying insects etc.

That saying, the device that corals bought can be easily substituted with any shallow dish The only improvement is the collection zone, even that part can be DIYed. Also, having tried both methods, I still use the "coke" bottle design, albeit a commercial coke bottle, the dish method is too troublesome for the miserable capacity.

Lastly, the PCM is a fantastic guide, not yet a bible.

[AquaRa]

are the brine shrimp we feed our fishes babies or adults?

[pacificbetta]

Newly hatched artemia is about a few hundred microns max. Adult BS is slightly under 1cm. Anything in between in size is possibly a midlife creature. You should be able to guestimate now?

[pacificbetta]

Ruel... good ones... import from www.brineshrimpdirect.com

A very expensive and unnecessary step....... For the amount spent on shipping, you can get one superior hatch rates big CAN of cysts. Approach the local discus breeders to buy one, and maybe share among a few of you.

If not, did anyone buy the Argent Platinium grade cysts at Aquarama?

[Achilles Tang]

A very expensive and unnecessary step....... For the amount spent on shipping, you can get one superior hatch rates big CAN of cysts. Approach the local discus breeders to buy one, and maybe share among a few of you.

If not, did anyone buy the Argent Platinium grade cysts at Aquarama?

I got myself a very large can of top-grade BS cysts. I can't find anything in the local market as good then. Maybe there is now? I find the local ones poor quality and for the price I pay... the brineshrimpdirect one is worth it IMO leh.

[pacificbetta]

Maybe there is now?

There were many discus breeders selling 2 years ago, hatch rates easily 90% using Luohan salt, can hit 95% without any problem if we are using water out from our reef tanks. S$55 for a BIG (by marine reef standards) can that can last me about 3mths with at least 6 breeding pairs of bettas at anyone time.

Maybe I really am out of touch.

the brineshrimpdirect one is worth it IMO leh.

The top BSD brands are graded about the same as those used by the discus breeders, give and take a few percent depending in the time of the year.

Just stay out of the cheapskate small bottles, unless you know the stock that it was repackagerd from. Many have incredibly low hatch rates.

I got myself a very large can of top-grade BS cysts.

Ok, now we know who to ask for BTW, what is my Q number?

[Achilles Tang]

In a coke bottle design, there are 2 possible areas where viable eggs do not hatch:

1.  Near the bottom of the hatchery.  If you place the airline at the neck of the bottle, there is this area near the near that has poor circulation.  When hatching dense amounts of cysts, this place tend to accumulate and block the hatching proceedure.  If we place the airline near this area, then the neck becomes the zone of accumulation.

If you place the airline right at the bottom cap which is the base of the hatchery... the neck actually gets the brunt of the bubbles coming out... there is no way the neck gets less circulation force compared to the upper end of the hatchery!

There will never be an accumulation of cysts at the neck, I guarantee you that!

2.  The rim of the bottle above the water line often also tend to acculmulate eggs.  Granted this problem can be circumvented by adjusting the aeration, but it is a fine margin.

Yup... bubble too hard and some cysts will get on the walls. I normally squirt saltwater to push them down. This only happens during the first few hours when the cysts are more buoyant. When they are in suspension, this does not happen anymore or to a much much lesser degree. Small problem if you ask me.

By scattering the cysts on a water surface, we can avoid both problems.  I know this do not sound very convincing, try it out yourself and see if it works.  It did for me as well as a few of my freshwater breeder friends.  But the amount of cycts that can be hatched this way is very low, very very much lower than the coke bottle design.  Also, such setups have a tendency to attract the unwanted attention of families/flying insects etc.

Hmmm, you said it yourself then... why is this method more efficient than a coke bottle hatchery then? (I mean, how badly designed can you make a coke bottle hatchery? )

Scattering cysts on the water surface, you will find that surface tension will cause the eggs to float and even glue themselves to the wall.

BS cysts are supposed to be SUSPENDED in the water column and this dish method with no air bubbling cannot provide the high oxygenation and suspension benefits.

That saying, the device that corals bought can be easily substituted with any shallow dish  The only improvement is the collection zone, even that part can be DIYed.  Also, having tried both methods, I still use the "coke" bottle design, albeit a commercial coke bottle, the dish method is too troublesome for the miserable capacity.

nuff' said!

Lastly, the PCM is a fantastic guide, not yet a bible.

Thou shalt not speaketh so heretically about the PCM!! The mighty arm of Hoff & Snell will smite thee with wrathful vengeance!

[pacificbetta]

If you place the airline right at the bottom cap which is the base of the hatchery... the neck actually gets the brunt of the bubbles coming out... there is no way the neck gets less circulation force compared to the upper end of the hatchery!

There will never be an accumulation of cysts at the neck, I guarantee you that!

\ /

\ / <---- Accumulation here for some coke bottle designs.

| | <----- Not here

why is this method more efficient

Hatch rate efficient; not space/effort efficeint.

When they are in suspension, this does not happen anymore or to a much much lesser degree

When you are hatching a lot of eggs, there is a lot of such waste.

Scattering cysts on the water surface, you will find that surface tension will cause the eggs to float and even glue themselves to the wall.

If you read carefully in my initial post, the cysts are intended to be floating on the water surface. Sunken eggs have low hatch rates. Also, this method only work for good GSL cysts, the china and russian cysts somehow are different. Language barriers maybe?

BS cysts are supposed to be SUSPENDED in the water column and this dish method with no air bubbling cannot provide the high oxygenation and suspension benefits.

Why don't you try it first then tell me Dun follow what you read on the net and some munuals and cast all other views out without consideration.

Thou shalt not speaketh so heretically about the PCM!!  The mighty arm of Hoff & Snell will smite thee with wrathful vengeance!

Hey, I said it was a fantastic guide. If they claim it to be a bible, the wrath of god shalt smite them

[Achilles Tang]

\    /

\  /  <---- Accumulation here for some coke bottle designs.

| |  <----- Not here

Hah??? Is it a limited edition coke bottle with some weird corners? All PET bottle necks are rounded and when inverted, form a very good base for no-dead-corners circulation unlike square bottoms. The bubbles provide ample water movement.

Have you really tried this method yourself?

Hatch rate efficient; not space/effort efficeint.

So you are saying that hatching in still water is more efficient that bubbling from your experience? It's a contradiction then. This statement vs the few you just made!

When you are hatching a lot of eggs, there is a lot of such waste.

As compared to stillwater hatching?

If you read carefully in my initial post, the cysts are intended to be floating on the water surface.  Sunken eggs have low hatch rates. 

If going by this logic, all the sunken eggs in the bubbling method will have low hatch rates?

Why don't you try it first then tell me    Dun follow what you read on the net and some munuals and cast all other views out without consideration.

Hey hello, I don't just read & quote. I have been hatching BBS for many years.

FYI, there was once I put the eggs in and forgot to switch on my air pump and went out over the weekend. Came back... yeah... only like 30% of the cysts hatched. Without bubbling aka this 'still water method'. I speak from experience as well. Frankly, you said it yourself.. the hatch rate sucks... what's your point then?

Getting confused now over your point by point explanations.

[pacificbetta]

Have you really tried this method yourself?

Of course my dear. There are some coke bottles that are rounded, not tapering neck designs. The picture you showed will not have the problems of accumulation in the neck/body region. But there ARE some cok bottles that will have that problem.

So you are saying that hatching in still water is more efficient that bubbling from your experience? It's a contradiction then. This statement vs the few you just made!

Yeah, I know, but somehow it works. I was very skeptical about it initially when it was proposed to me. I tried it and it surprisingly worked. Still the same words, try it first.

As compared to stillwater hatching?

The still water has very low capacity, no cause for comparison.

I have been hatching BBS for many years.

I know, but have you tried the still water method????? Your only cited experience is definitely a wrong application of what I wrote. You scatter a very thin (read very few cysts)layer on the surface of the water, not drop in small tablespoon.

[Achilles Tang]

Have you really tried this method yourself?

Of course my dear. There are some coke bottles that are rounded, not tapering neck designs. The picture you showed will not have the problems of accumulation in the neck/body region. But there ARE some cok bottles that will have that problem.

Oh. Ignorant me. I always thought PET bottles are all rounded/tapered near the top. Well... now I know.

So you are saying that hatching in still water is more efficient that bubbling from your experience? It's a contradiction then. This statement vs the few you just made!

Yeah, I know, but somehow it works. I was very skeptical about it initially when it was proposed to me. I tried it and it surprisingly worked. Still the same words, try it first.

Just working and working efficiently are too different things. Maybe I am stubborn, but if it's not efficient, why try it.

As compared to stillwater hatching?

The still water has very low capacity, no cause for comparison.

Ahh... but we are comparing when you said it actually is. Unless I really misread the word efficient or unless you are referring to something else.

I have been hatching BBS for many years.

I know, but have you tried the still water method????? Your only cited experience is definitely a wrong application of what I wrote. You scatter a very thin (read very few cysts)layer on the surface of the water, not drop in small tablespoon.

Well, for the coke bottle method, I am using just a tiny McDonald coffee stirrer spoon size, not a tablespoon. You must be nuts to use a tablespoon. When the eggs are place in a coke bottle hatchery, they spread out to a very thin layer and some will begin to drop. Enough remains on the surface to form a thin layer.

I see no difference in the application, intentional or unintentionally.

BBS cyst hatchrate was pathetic without aeration.

[pacificbetta]

Ahh... but we are comparing when you said it actually is. Unless I really misread the word efficient or unless you are referring to something else.

Grrrgh, I mean the still water hatch rate can be more effienct in terms of hatch rate NOT in terms of labour/space. And this is espcially true when the diy coke bottle designs are applied worngly.

I see no difference in the application, intentional or unintentionally.

Never mind, when we meet up at the gunnery range, I will illustrate to you. We can both the time spent here to better use.