Alternative to low PO4

[Guzen]

Hi, bros, keep it up men, more updates when you can.

[leochngyh]

Nope. I actually did like this.

1. Prepare 7G NSW

2. Siphon 7G Tank SW

3. Add 7G NSW

4. Treat 7G Tank SW (Now I shorten to 5 hrs)

5. Repeat for 5 times.

I still dont understand on the repeat 5 times. Are you saying you repeated the whole process for 5 times to change 100% of your tank water? But you did mentioned that you just treated 7G out of your 40G to get the low PO4 reading.

Which is correct? or I have misunderstand the repeat 5 times.

[nakazoru]

I still dont understand on the repeat 5 times. Are you saying you repeated the whole process for 5 times to change 100% of your tank water? But you did mentioned that you just treated 7G out of your 40G to get the low PO4 reading.

Which is correct? or I have misunderstand the repeat 5 times.

Hi leochngyh;

Repeat 5 time to bring it to a manageable level.

Initial PO4 of 40G tank 0.3 PO4

Treat 1st 7G -> 0.01 PO4 of 7G

Add to 40G -> PO4 0.25 of 40G tank

Treat 2nd 7G -> 0.01 PO4 of 7G

Add to 40G -> PO4 0.2 of 40G tank

Treat 3Rd 7G -> 0.01 PO4 of 7G

Add to 40G -> PO4 0.165 of 40G tank

Treat 4TH 7G -> 0.01 PO4 of 7G

Add to 40G -> PO4 0.136 of 40G tank

Treat 5TH 7G -> 0.01 PO4 of 7G

Add to 40G -> PO4 0.1 of 40G tank

This is what I did. By dilluting the main tank. If you can think of how to treat the whole tank at one shot or more SW at one shot, you get undetectable PO4. My pail is that small...

[leochngyh]

oic, after you treat the 7G and pour back to the tank. Is the effect still there??? I mean the FeSO4 is it still reacting after you have filter it?

[nakazoru]

oic, after you treat the 7G and pour back to the tank. Is the effect still there??? I mean the FeSO4 is it still reacting after you have filter it?

No, water is clear. No more reaction..

[Kenji80]

Any updates? Did you try on Iron Chloride?

[nakazoru]

Sorry Bro Kenji;

Outstation for 1 month. No I did not try FeCL. Haven't see my tank for 3 weeks liao.

[Kenji80]

Hi Bro nakazoru,

No problem. But pls do update us when you get to see your tank ya?

Cheers...

[tayhonglee]

i got this stuff from naka a while ago, and have been dosing it quite consistently into my sump. its super effective in low dosage. first time i did it, i overdosed and my sailfin and regal tang died

there has been an obvious reduction in hair algae. as far as i understand, the feso4 will precipitate into a brownish powder that turns the tank light brown. because of that i use a lot of filter wool and the tank clears right up within a few hours.

my lps and fishes are ok with the amount i dose now (which is about 1/4 teaspoon per 100 gal). no strange behaviours.

however, if you have sps, it might be a real good idea to do it naka's way. im a pretty lazy bum

it's a great way to reduce phosphate and the best thing is that it's damn cheap compared to rowa

many thanks to naka

[kareen]

Hi all!

How this Fe(OH)3 come about? I mean the Fe in this case...

And, will ozone achieve this Fe(OH)3 as well? I know ozone principle is to oxidizing stuffs in our tank....

[tayhonglee]

cool, just now i was talking to another reefer on the phone about the ferrous sulphate thing, and he mentioned he used aluminium sulphate once (maybe not sulphate, but confirm aluminium something). anyone heard of this?

[nakazoru]

Aluminium Hydroxide Chloride or Aluminium Sulphate is used again for waste water treatment. In fact most uses a combination of Fe and Alum for their waste water plant.

Alum coagulant is heavier than Fe coagulant for it will stays at the bottom once it solidify. Wheras Fe coagulant is slugish in nature and may stick to pipes and and tank wall.

Most plant uses Alum incorporate other means of Alum removal to ensure dissolved alum out of the water, 2nd pass. Alum is quite unknown in human consumption and rumoured to cause a few disease. Fe is used for the benefit of human iron supplement. Maybe it applys to fishes too.

Primary speaking dosing chemical, affects PH and oxygen, so do it slow to prevent drastic PH swing or oxygen deleting... I dun think it the PH that kills your fish but lower oxygen maybe.

[kareen]

How this Fe(OH)3 come about? I mean the Fe in this case...

Hm... it's FeSO4 reaction that eventually get Fe(OH)3... then what will happen to the SO4 left in water? Will this cause some ions imbalance with the increase of SO4?

[tayhonglee]

Hm... it's FeSO4 reaction that eventually get Fe(OH)3... then what will happen to the SO4 left in water? Will this cause some ions imbalance with the increase of SO4?

i think sure got some imbalance. sort of like dosing epsom salt.

[kareen]

i think sure got some imbalance. sort of like dosing epsom salt.

then r u going to do anything about it? If not, what will happen?

[nakazoru]

then r u going to do anything about it? If not, what will happen?

Hi Kareen

Imbalance is hardly new in home aquarium. Especially those with no high end monitoring equipment.

One will still need to perform water change regardless of the what filtration or chemical media we use. This keeps the S ions in check. Only when O ions is serverly depleted that it exist H2S gas which is toxic. Normally in the sand bed.

Revisit, Excluding H and O ions.

chlorine accounts for 55% of the ions, sodium comprises 30.6%, sulfate makes up 7.7% and magnesium measures out at 4%.

You really have to dose a major amount of Sulphate to push the high enuf kill anything.

How abt Calcium and bicarbonate? They are even lower in the order... We dose that everyday. But they are percipated easily.

[kareen]

Revisit, Excluding H and O ions.

chlorine accounts for 55% of the ions, sodium comprises 30.6%, sulfate makes up 7.7% and magnesium measures out at 4%.

You really have to dose a major amount of Sulphate to push the high enuf kill anything.

How abt Calcium and bicarbonate? They are even lower in the order... We dose that everyday. But they are percipated easily.

That's add up to about 97.3% and does that mean that only 2.7% is calcium and bicarbonate ions left in water? Hm... does this sound right? I mean we all know the correct level of Ca is 380-420ppm.... Somehow cannot link information together...

[nakazoru]

That's add up to about 97.3% and does that mean that only 2.7% is calcium and bicarbonate ions left in water? Hm... does this sound right? I mean we all know the correct level of Ca is 380-420ppm.... Somehow cannot link information together...

Good Morning Sis Kareen;

Doing maths early in the morning? If you calculate it in that sense, I probably just do it in this sense, with ions that we normally test:

Mg: 1380ppm

Ca: 420ppm

If Mg = 4%

then Ca = 420/1380 x 4%

Bingo, we get 1.31%, the rest of the minerals like PO4, Fe has less than 1 ppm that make up the rest. Yes that is about right...

chemical concentration ppm, mg/kg part of salinity %

Chloride Cl 19345(ppm) 55.03%

Sodium Na 10752(ppm) 30.59%

Sulfate SO4 2701(ppm) 7.68%

Magnesium 1295(ppm) 3.68%

Calcium Ca 416(ppm) 1.18%

Potassium K 390(ppm) 1.11%

Bicarbonate HCO3 145(ppm) 0.41%

However, we test ppm. The percentage I given is in mg/l, which is the absolute weight of the minerals, then different minerals has a different density. Looking at SO4 and Mg, SO4 is heavier than Mg but Mg has a higher ppm than SO4. Ca has lower density and ppm compare to the two minerals.

Hopes it adds up now.

[kareen]

Morning Simon.

Sulfate SO4 2701(ppm) 7.68%

Magnesium 1295(ppm) 3.68%

Calcium Ca 416(ppm) 1.18%

Looking at SO4 and Mg, SO4 is heavier than Mg but Mg has a higher ppm than SO4. Ca has lower density and ppm compare to the two minerals

From what u listed, is Mg higher ppm than SO4? I don't understand this part.... Also, how do we relate mg/l to ppm, the matrix we test on?

[nakazoru]

Sorry Sorry..

"Mg has a higher ppm than SO4"

SO4 has higher ppm. My mistake.

Magnesium Mg has higher ppm than Sulfur S, as a single ions, but hot as sulphate.

As fo relationship mg/l and ppm, 1 ppm is equivalent to 1 milligram/liter (mg/L).

which is the same thing. Essentially meant the same thing. I confused everybody. Doesn't help when I just woke up.

[kareen]

no lah...

The percentage I given is in mg/l, which is the absolute weight of the minerals, then different minerals has a different density

I think what you mean is that different minerals has different mass... and this make the cal different from mineral to mineral in different form... I understand... Thanks for explaination of mg/l and ppm....

[nakazoru]

no lah...

I think what you mean is that different minerals has different mass... and this make the cal different from mineral to mineral in different form... I understand... Thanks for explaination of mg/l and ppm....

You start dripping the FeSO4?

I copy Tay's drip method, and seems to work quite well. Created a cloud in the tank when I put 1 drip per sec. Off it and wait 1/2 hour for cloud to clear.

I tried again with 1 drip per 4 sec. The cloud does not form as badly and not noticable.

After 1 day, skimmer seems to slow in skimming, and filter wool seems so brownish. The brown coagulated particles seems to stick to filter wool than extracted by skimmer, as my skimmer seems to have less skimmate than yesterday. Maybe wool is more electrically charged to attract the particle...

I will have to change out the wool tonight otherwise it leeach back to tank. Did not see the glass to be affected.

Tank now good as new after 3 mth neber change water and overfeeding. Worst no skimmer for awhile. Lousy/Cheap skimmer only add headache. Spawning Clownfish only results in overfeeding... Now using Redsea Pro, much better.

PO4 reading using drip method??? Damn it, test kit expired.... Go Reefdepot, closed on Monday. Damn it again, waste petrol, somemore so expensive now...

[kareen]

I have not yet tried the FeSO4... 'cos I have a little spare time to do some water change over the weekend.... I have setup the plankton and rotifer though...

Where is the thread about Tay's drip method? I didn't know...

PO4 test kit veri expensive... do u think it's necessary to own one? To me, PO4 reading is not as useful as Ca or Mg.... Knowing the level will not enhance the reef... I will spend the money on saltmix, Ca testkit...

[nakazoru]

I have not yet tried the FeSO4... 'cos I have a little spare time to do some water change over the weekend.... I have setup the plankton and rotifer though...

Where is the thread about Tay's drip method? I didn't know...

PO4 test kit veri expensive... do u think it's necessary to own one? To me, PO4 reading is not as useful as Ca or Mg.... Knowing the level will not enhance the reef... I will spend the money on saltmix, Ca testkit...

Tay's drip method no thread lah.

Actually all test kit is not necessary if one has establish a routine. My PO4 testkit use only 5 time then white elephant... now expired, cannot change color liao.

Yes, most impt is CA/KH. Mg testkit also waste money.

Actually funny thing is that even with low PO4, tank will still have algae... Visually looking at the richness of the water, can agar agar how bad is the PO4, at least for my tank.

Okay lah, forget the testkit, now that you mention.

[kareen]

My PO4 testkit use only 5 time then white elephant... now expired, cannot change color liao.

Could it be the PO4 is not detectable now? Do a little experiment to test out... Take some water from tank in a container, dump some food for it a day or two and then measure the PO4.....

PS: can explain what is Tay's drip?

PSS: oh ya, juz test water from the rotifer culture should have PO4....