Deltec vs ATI vs Bubble King

[ReDDeviLs]

i believe these 3 skimmers are operating in the same theory.. wonder how do we compare the above 3.

and how do we know which will emerge as winners?

[acidjazz]

Bubble King is clearly the winner.

Its tested and proven in Germany.

As for ATI and Deltec, i believe there's a fight.

I will post again when i hook up the ATI Bubble Master which comes with an air meter, so i can calculate the capacity of air drawn.

What's ur basis for the winner anyway?

The performance vs the price? or solely on performance?

[Dazza]

hahaha here we go again ... used to be comparison of h&s n deltec tahts stirred up such a big hu ha hahaha... interesting ...

[ReDDeviLs]

i would say solely performance first.. and than later performance vs price. thanks bro AJ for the promt response.

[jervismun]

To be honest... I think Deltec will win in terms of performance alone.

Not that they are the best... simply they use the most numbers of pumps. How can a Red Dragon fight with 4 Eheims?

If price is the determining factor, ATI wins.

But in the end of the day, we need to also look at other factors such as after sales support (Deltec wins), energy consumption (ATI & BK), aesthetic (err... subjective to individual)

We are like comparing VW, BMW, Audi and Mercedes

[ReDDeviLs]

maybe we shld also look at power consumtion vs performance than it will be more fair?

[jervismun]

maybe we shld also look at power consumtion vs performance than it will be more fair?

Haha... now we are talking...

Some will go for Lamborghini... but I like the Lotus concept very much leh... most probably I will own one before I die

It's not that hard to design a 1 tonne sports car and put in a 6000CC engine and expect it to outrun a family sedan

[acidjazz]

The biggest Bubble King model which is BK-650 runs on two Red Dragon pumps. The volume of air intake and water intake can beat Deltec's 1004 model any time. Its prized at almost 11000sgd

Details of Deltec 1004:

The European AP1004 is fitted with 4 Eheim pumps each drawing in 600lts of air per hour giving a total of 2,400lts/hour. (quoted from reefdepot's website)

As for BK-650, the air intake is at least 5000 litres minimum.

Price wise: ATI

Performance wise: BK

Electrical consumption: BK

After sales support: Deltec

The problem with BK is if the titanium impeller ever breaks for wadeva reason, u might have to wait 3 months for a replacement. As for Deltec, replacement is readily available at reefdepot. As for ATI, think we can diy the replacement ourselves.

[gene_ts]

Talk is cheap, anyone can quote off the websites or manuals

I will wait the day someone test these 3 skimmers side by side

[jervismun]

Talk is cheap, anyone can quote off the websites or manuals

I will wait the day someone test these 3 skimmers side by side

Haha... realistically, I don't think there will be any Singaporea willing to allocate $20K to do the test... Reefcentral perhaps

So while waiting for "that" Singaporean to emerge, what we can do is talk sensibly based on our best knowledge and specs available.

Bro Acidjazz, I don't think ATI Bubble Master is in the same league as BK-650 and Deltec 1004. ATI Bubble Master was designed for a much smaller capacity at 1/10 the cost of the BK-650.

Since you highlighted the 2 models, perhaps a look at their power consumption will make the comparison more meaningful (bearing in mind they may not be rated under the same tank capacity).

BK-650: 58W x 2 = 116W = $17.50/month

Deltec 1004: 65W x 4 = 260W = $39.30/month

ATI Bubble Master: 80W = $12.00/month

Must agree with bro Acidjazz that BK is the clear winner when it comes to energy efficiency ... and running the Deltec 1004 will consume $471.60/year or a shocking 2,277,600W per year

[gene_ts]

I disagree.

We have very rich reefers in Singapore too (fine living, marine ponds, multiple marine tanks, expensive bikes)

[southpaw23]

Perhaps to help facilitate this along better....why don't we do a comparison of skimmers within the same skimming capacity range? Say for instances 1000 litres? Take the models from each of the brands and lets have input and a comparison on it's performance....

No point talkin about ridiculously priced, high powered skimmers that 99% of us are probably NEVER going to see or use in our lifetime. Lets be a little more practical in this discussion and compare models which ppl are currently already using....

To start off, how bout a comparison between the Deltec 851, ATI Bubble Master and maybe the BK-250 ? (I'm not quite familiar with their models, would this model be comparable?)

Lets the games begin!

[gene_ts]

I seriously don't know what is there to discuss except cruching numbers given out by the manufacturers.

Unless someone can conduct a controlled test environment to test the skimmers, I will say this again "talk is cheap".

[southpaw23]

I seriously don't know what is there to discuss except cruching numbers given out by the manufacturers.

Unless someone can conduct a controlled test environment to test the skimmers, I will say this again "talk is cheap".

I believe the intent of this thread is in finding out HOW we can measure the three skimmers.

There is no right and wrong, what i believe the intent of the thread starter is to find out 1. If we can establish a common measurement, 2. If we can actually find a realistic testing ground etc.....

So to me...the discussion is still valid...we're just coming up with ideas....the number crunching will help substantiate future findings...

[gene_ts]

Then this will be an fruitless discussion.

[southpaw23]

Then this will be an fruitless discussion.

Ur entitled to ur opinions i suppose....thanks for participating then....

see ya!

[ReDDeviLs]

i kinda agree with bro southpaw.. why not compare the more comparable models against each other? maybe someone that uses all 3 before have something to say about?

[acidjazz]

hmmm. . i know who has a BK-250, Deltec 851 and ATI Bubble Master respectively.

All the tanks are 5-6 footer big. Will try to request for some information from them.

[jervismun]

To start off, how bout a comparison between the Deltec 851, ATI Bubble Master and maybe the BK-250 ? (I'm not quite familiar with their models, would this model be comparable?)

Ok bro... as you wish... but please bear in mind some manufacturers may over-rate their skimmer... however, it should be quite minimal in this instance since all 3 are well-established German brands in the industry.

We shall compare ATI Bubble Master 250, BK-250 and Deltec AP902 (AP851 is way too low in capacity)... going in alphabetical order

ATI Bubble Master 250

• For up to 3000L

• Single Eheim 1260 producing 2000L of air per hour

• Power consumption 49W

• Price Euro 480

Bubble King 250

• For 800L to 2000L

• Single Red Dragon producing 1500L of air per hour

• Power consumption 45W

• Price Euro 1600

Deltec AP902

• For 1800L to 2500L

• Duo Eheim producing 1200L of air per hour

• Power consumption 130W

• Price SGD 2790

If I am to build a dream skimmer... it will be...

• Single Eheim 1260 producing 2000L of air per hour (ATI Bubble Master 250)

• Power consumption 45W (Bubble King 250)

• Price Euro 480 (ATI Bubble Master 250)

Well that's just me

[acidjazz]

jervis, i already received the ATI bubble master. Its running on a Eheim1262 pump (80 watt).

reefdepot selling Deltec902 for 2579sgd.

[jervismun]

jervis, i already received the ATI bubble master. Its running on a Eheim1262 pump (80 watt).

reefdepot selling Deltec902 for 2579sgd.

Really? I know that ATI is in the midst of changing to a more energy efficient pump... the 1260 (49W) info was taken from 2 German sources (1 being ATI website). Let me drop by AM and check my piece. From what I heard, ATI already stopped producing BM 250 with airflow meter. My BM 250 doesn't come with the airflow meter.

Yes... that's after +/- 10% discount (I took price from their website). So, if you are to get both ATI and BK from German site, you will get 16% VAT rebate too Prices were provided as a guide only.

[acidjazz]

Really? I know that ATI is in the midst of changing to a more energy efficient pump... the 1260 (49W) info was taken from 2 German sources (1 being ATI website). Let me drop by AM and check my piece. From what I heard, ATI already stopped producing BM 250 with airflow meter. My BM 250 doesn't come with the airflow meter.

Yes... that's after +/- 10% discount (I took price from their website). So, if you are to get both ATI and BK from German site, you will get 16% VAT rebate too Prices were provided as a guide only.

i rather ATI used back the Eheim pump. The reason being their new pump will be manufactured by the mother company Sicce (Italy brand) which also produces Quietone pumps etc. As fas as i know, Eheim beats Sicce pumps hands down.

i still have the air flow meter, maybe mine is old stock. Fortunately!!!

[jervismun]

i still have the air flow meter, maybe mine is old stock. Fortunately!!!

Yes luckily you have it coz the newer ones will not have the meter... I was told that ATI decided to remove it as the current air flow meter tends to rust after a while.. so you may want to look into that... or perhaps they have something to hide

You are the only person in Singapore now that can verify their claim of producing 2000ltr of air per hour...

The Sicce pump (so called ATI1500) is only used for the Twister®M, Bubble Master will remain using Eheim (be it 1260 or 1262)...

[jervismun]

Bro Acidjazz

Just got confirmation from LFS, my BM 250 is running on Eheim 1262 (80W), similar to yours... now the mystery is... is the 1260 (45W) a new development or an old pump that they replaced with 1262? I am confused

[acidjazz]

Bro Acidjazz

Just got confirmation from LFS, my BM 250 is running on Eheim 1262 (80W), similar to yours... now the mystery is... is the 1260 (45W) a new development or an old pump that they replaced with 1262? I am confused

The thing is. . Eheim 1260 is definately not 45 watt. This is verified by the specs provided on Eheim website, its supposed to be 65 watt.

I think ATI is still doing R/D on their new pumps.

Just like ur ATI twister, it was previously run on a eheim 1250 pump.

After i hook up the ATI bubble master, will post some pictures of it and and see what the air flow meter measures.