250G 6x2.5x2.5ft Reef Project

[jervismun]

haha. . deal. . bring ur bubblemaster to my place and we can test out which one can skim out more. . or i can lend u the deltec. .

Actually that can be quite an interesting test yeah... since your's is an out-sump model... you bring to my new tank lah... then we can test them during the weekend... give me 2 more months to BEEF UP the bioload

I must thank AM for allowing me to upgrae to a larger model... initially bought the Twister®M coz I intended to start a 2.5' tank... then suddenly inflate to 4'... better to oversump than undersump right? My new tank + sump is around 500 Liters... so with Bubble Master (rated 3000, oklah say effective 2000)... that is 4 times my tank volume... I'm sure the BM will do a very good job for my tank

[acidjazz]

hi P, glad to see your BIG tank is running well

hmm... just wonder... ATI bubblemaster cost at least $1200, why not use deltec AP851? since needlewheel is proved that it works perfect for the marine tank

P, for your tank size, if you wanna keep sps, AP902 is a good size for your tank. if you just keeping softy and lps and fishes... AP851 is good enough. i have a friend who uses APF600 for his 6ft... and it serves him well cos he is just keeping lps

i am using AP851 for my 3ft tank

hey bro, glad to hear from you. I didnt realise you are using such an oversize skimmer for ur 3 footer. Mind sharing with me how's the performance of the deltec851? I mean in comparison with a beckett skimmer. .

i am actually keeping very few lps. . more worried about the bio load from my fishes. . 48 and still counting. .

[acidjazz]

jervis. . no need to beef up ur bio load. My current tank is a very good experiment. I dun think anyone here is crazy enough to have more than 20 tangs in their 6 footer. .

i sld be ordering the deltec851 next week. . will do some review on it i guess. do show me ur bubblemaster!

[spawns]

hey paul, it freaks me out when i c so many tangs in ur six footer!

*salute*

better get a bubble king,man!its should minimise ur headaches in the

future...anyway breads n butter for few mths dont cost that much $$$ hehehe

how come i dont c any big angels in ur tank?neither in ur fish list

[jervismun]

I dun think anyone here is crazy enough to have more than 20 tangs in their 6 footer.

And you are so proud of it right?

[jervismun]

hey paul, it freaks me out when i c so many tangs in ur six footer!

*salute*

better get a bubble king,man!its should minimise ur headaches in the

future...anyway breads n butter for few mths dont cost that much $$$ hehehe

how come i dont c any big angels in ur tank?neither in ur fish list

Yalor... why get a underpowered Deltec just for the sake of getting... then think about changing 3 months down the road? To be honest, I think your bio-load is super high lor... you will really put the 851 to test

Agree with bro Spawns... go for a Bubble King!!! If you get a Bubble King... no need to test next to my Bubble Master already... by default you get all the ... but make sure you don't buy an underpowered BK hor...

[southpaw23]

And you are so proud of it right?

That's not something to be proud of.....

If u were in a US forum...ur @$$ would be flamed! They're more particular about the fishes welfare there than ppl here. But that's a whole other arguement...just don't go around boasting ur fishload.....

[jervismun]

If u were in a US forum...ur @$$ would be flamed! They're more particular about the fishes welfare there than ppl here. But that's a whole other arguement...just don't go around boasting ur fishload.....

That's what I thought also... very seldom we see reefers get flamed for overstocking their tanks nowadays... probably because the rules doesn't apply anymore... with so many high-tech equipments in the market nowadays... many reefers can push the limit relying on technology (which is exactly what I am planning for btw)...

That's why I seriously hope that bro Acidjazz can reconsider his decision regarding the Deltec 851.

According to Deltec, the 851 supports only up to - Heavy Stocking 1000 L (222 Gal)... bro Acidjazz's tank already 1000 L... and I'm sure Deltec overrate the 851 by a little...

And the 600lts of air per hour is not entirely convincing for a 6 footer with 50 fishes (and possibly more in the coming 1 month)... bearing in mind some of the fishes are still considere Juvenile now You know how fast Tangs grow right? Again not forgetting the "manufacturer overating trend"... that doesn't leave you with a lot of air per hour

Bro Acidjazz... please make the right decision... as you are one of the few reefers I can discuss about equipments... I hope we will help each other in getting our dream equipments and we can warn each other of unforeseen restrictions... I think we belongs to the same kind... blinded by certain brands... and particularly passionate when it comes to brand loyalty.

Ok enough said... up to you bro... all the best

And don't let me see you adding back your Bullet Beckett later on

[southpaw23]

That's what I thought also... very seldom we see reefers get flamed for overstocking their tanks nowadays... probably because the rules doesn't apply anymore... with so many high-tech equipments in the market nowadays... many reefers can push the limit relying on technology (which is exactly what I am planning for btw)...

[jervismun]

Ur missing the point buddy...it's not about technology...it's about the livestock. Here's a good example...even if you can fix 40 ppl into a 3 storey house with 5 bedrooms and 4 baths....would u expect them all to live in it??

The arguement about overstocking is not about technological capabilities, it's about individual livestock requirements as well. For instance, tangs are known to be active fishes and require lotsa swimming space, which is why you wouldnt put one in a 2 ft tank....secondly, they're known to be agressive towards their own kind, so reefers are mindful of keeping too many in the same tank. This doesn't just apply to tangs...fishes like mandarins are also highly misunderstood fishes that are often subjected to starvation in most of our tanks because most reefers don't understand their requirements (i for one will admit to being guilty of it at one point in time) ppl stick them in new tanks expecting them to survive..worse yet in 2 ft tanks where there isn't enough liverock and copepods/amphipods to meet their dietary needs.

In the midst of all our desires to own "highly sophisticated" tanks, i feel that the original goals of promoting responsible reef keeping has been diluted in some ways. Most topics these days have been about fancy equipments and gadgetries and ppl showing off cool setups (not pointing any fingers mind you)....and even so, i can understand that it's fun...i personally enjoy all these cool setups and love to gain ideas off other ppls setups so's i can incorporate them into my future tanks. But again, amidst all this...lets not lose sight of the "responsible reefkeeping" goal which is ultimately what this site was setup to achieve.

Sorry Paul...just realised this could be in a separate thread..a lil i know....no hard feelings eh buddy....

Hi bro Southpaw23, do not get me wrong, I am not defending my position but to add to your beliefs... as I agree with you completely regarding the compatibility/requirements of each LS and about Mandarin...

However, I hope you will also agree with me that technology allows reefers to push the limit a little bit more especially when it comes to treating the water condition in our tank... perviously a lot of the species (esp. corals, SPS) are not even possible for to be kept for a considerable period of time... but now, they thrive in some successful tanks... and I have strong faith in technology and I expect it to get better as we (as reefers) and companies (R&D) are learning so much more from mother nature than before... that is the point I was trying to make earlier... not disagreeing with you but to give your view a more rounded perspective

And how does this relate back to bro Acidjazz? Well... technology is the only source he can rely on right now if he wants to keep all his Tangs and fishes happy... and there shouldn't even be an argument/disagreement about it... that's why we have been discussing about his current interest in getting a better skimmer (both in forum and phone conversation)

I know overstocking is not a healthy thing to do... but at least bro Acidjazz is willing to salvage the situation by upgrading his equipments to match the bio-load... but of course... you can always ask... why so many Tangs in the first place? That I will have to let bro Acidjazz answer

[southpaw23]

Hi bro Southpaw23, do not get me wrong, I am not defending my position but to add to your beliefs... as I agree with you completely regarding the compatibility/requirements of each LS and about Mandarin...

However, I hope you will also agree with me that technology allows reefers to push the limit a little bit more especially when it comes to treating the water condition in our tank... perviously a lot of the species (esp. corals, SPS) are not even possible for to be kept for a considerable period of time... but now, they thrive in some successful tanks... and I have strong faith in technology and I expect it to get better as we (as reefers) and companies (R&D) are learning so much more from mother nature than before... that is the point I was trying to make earlier... not disagreeing with you but to give your view a more rounded perspective

And how does this relate back to bro Acidjazz? Well... technology is the only source he can rely on right now if he wants to keep all his Tangs and fishes happy... and there shouldn't even be an argument/disagreement about it... that's why we have been discussing about his current interest in getting a better skimmer (both in forum and phone conversation)

I know overstocking is not a healthy thing to do... but at least bro Acidjazz is willing to salvage the situation by upgrading his equipments to match the bio-load... but of course... you can always ask... why so many Tangs in the first place? That I will have to let bro Acidjazz answer

I see your point Jervis....and totally agree on the point about technology...i will admit...i'm somewhat a technological/gadget junkie myself.....and can understand the improvements and benefits that these new developments can bring to our hobby. Being able to push the limits of our hobby to achieve things that was not thought possible before is a great thing....but there has to be a balance.

We must not forget that over and above all the frilly gadgets we play with, we are still dealing with living breathing organisms at the end of the day. For example, this whole arguement about cloning....technology has made it possible...but now comes the ethical argument as to whether its right...

sorry..i'm going all over the place with this arguement but my point is, even if technology allows us the ability to do something...doesn't always make it right at the end of the day...so again...."balance" is key

[w3ish3ng]

bioload is one thing, but having too much fish in 1 tank is another. its about space right now. 6footer is huge but not that huge to have space for 20+ tang. i am someone who use to stock up alot on fish, but it just sadden me to see that those large fishes cant really swim freely around where their previous home, the Ocean, has unlimited space for them to swim around.

[southpaw23]

w3ish3ng, i'm agreeable to ur statement but lets not venture into the realm of "flaming" in anyway in this thread (am not saying ur statements were to flame either), just that this is venturing into "sensitive" territory...

My initial comments was more geared towards urging reefers to be more sensitive to responsible reefkeeping in general and not get too hung over on all the fancy gadgetry.

At the end of the day, to each their own....let bygones be bygones i suppose....

Paul....hope u see where i'm comin from...no harm intended to ur thread and apologies if i did bring any to it....

[acidjazz]

bro spawns: A bubbleking wld certainly solve my headache when it comes to my tank but it will give me greater headaches feeding on biscuits w plain water or soya sauce w rice. Bcuz tangs are extremely fast eaters, some of the angels are unable to compete with them. Not saying tt i will not add them in future, but my experience with tangs have been pretty good. i know their habits and patterns, unlike angels.

jervis: If u ever want to venture into another business. . try public relations or sales cuz u you are very persuasive. . as we converse previously, i shall delay the Deltec851 model and go for another skimmer instead. I hope i will be officially the first reefer locally to own tt piece of skimmer and i shall do a review on it.

Kenny: No worries man. . i understand where you are coming from. . i will probably not add more livestock into my current tank. Perhaps just 3-4 other fishes tt i wanted and tt's about it. . both you and jervis does have a point. . one can only push the limit tt much and i think i almost reach mine. . . i do have almost 50 fishes but 20 of them are actually chromis which are pretty small. . the rest are still small to medium size tangs. .

[neokn]

47" x 27" x 32" Custom tank

I hope I'm not encouraging you with these pic

[acidjazz]

47" x 27" x 32" Custom tank

I hope I'm not encouraging you with these pic

i remember seeing a lot of such tanks in hongkong. haha. . . bet you guys never see a one footer tang before. .

thanks for the encourgaement bro.

[southpaw23]

i shall delay the Deltec851 model and go for another skimmer instead. I hope i will be officially the first reefer locally to own tt piece of skimmer and i shall do a review on it.

I smell a new skimmer review on the horizon...how soon can we expect the arrival of ur new "baby"....

And good to see no misunderstandings from the previous posts. In saying that...keep the pics coming....

[neokn]

i remember seeing a lot of such tanks in hongkong. haha. . . bet you guys never see a one footer tang before. .

thanks for the encourgaement bro.

Look forward to seeing your tank one day. Haven't got the chance to visit you even though you stay so near to Pasir Ris farm.

Hong Konger are plain crazy abt fish, not like us in SG whom are always in constant adding of corals, trying to make our tank more reef like. Thus the need for more advance equipment.

Any view of the tank.

[jervismun]

Any view of the tank.

If you ask me... I think the tank is not very natural looking... it's like a LFS tank filled with fishes for sale... don't think some of the fishes coexist too well with others and there are obviously not enough rocks and caves for fishes to sleep at night... it's sad to see Blue Tangs lying on the glass floor at night

[acidjazz]

Kenny: i will not release any information of this "baby" until it arrives. Must keep some suspense. It sld be approximately next friday. Will do a full review on it.

bro Neokn: u are free to come my place. . any time. . Honkong reefers are not particular about equipments and corals. For them is: fish die already can buy another one. the culture is different compared to us. Singaporeans love to play with high end equipments. . .

jervis: Thanks for helping me choose the optimum skimmer for my tank. Hopefully its as good as it claims.

[jervismun]

jervis: Thanks for helping me choose the optimum skimmer for my tank. Hopefully its as good as it claims.

Bro... I didn't help you choose your dream skimmer hor... I just help identify the restrictions on your previous selection... so don't blame me if your new skimmer not up to your "high" expectations hor... you know lah... it can be very hard to impress a reefer that owned Beckett before But if you decide to sell your new skimmer... let me know lah... I make sure I have enough space in my sump to run dual skimmers

[acidjazz]

Bro... I didn't help you choose your dream skimmer hor... I just help identify the restrictions on your previous selection... so don't blame me if your new skimmer not up to your "high" expectations hor... you know lah... it can be very hard to impress a reefer that owned Beckett before But if you decide to sell your new skimmer... let me know lah... I make sure I have enough space in my sump to run dual skimmers

i do have quite high expectations for the up and coming skimmer. Really looking forward to it. Expected time of arrival: 10-11 august. Dun reveal anything about the skimmer yet, i prefer the element of surprise.

[jervismun]

i do have quite high expectations for the up and coming skimmer. Really looking forward to it. Expected time of arrival: 10-11 august. Dun reveal anything about the skimmer yet, i prefer the element of surprise.

My speculation... someone just posted a link to a new product review at Zeovit.com... I think some parts of the skimmer is red in colour

[acidjazz]

Both the skimmer and denitrator will be in next week. Will post some pictures and possibly reviews on it.

Btw this are my final pieces of equipment. Gotta save money for travelling!

[loster]

wow... interesting discussion here

paul, i have at least 25+ fishes in my full sps tank (3ft) and supported by my ap851. no problem with the bio-load. i feed my fishes 3x a day

i have no experience with the beckett cos i used NW since day 1 my friend, teo, he has his 6ft full sps tank. when he used dual Beckett in the beginning.. he can't get his sps colour up (due to the tuning... ) when he changed to ap902, a lot of improvement in his tank... (now, he don't have to tune his skimmer )

anyway, skimmer is still a skimmer. how much you wanna invest on it is also depend on what you wanna keep in your tank. heavy shocking mean, your feeding is at least 5x or more a day.

anyway, will wait for your review of your skimmer and i am sure you are real excited for it arrival