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The lighting thread - post tech/sci info here!

Achilles Tang

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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Hello everyone,

Seems like there is a lot of interest building on the different lightings used in reef tanks and for many of us, it is a very confusing and technical subject.

With the trend towards building our own DIY units, it would be prudent to sieve out as much nuggets of info as possible to help our reef club members.

So post away! ;)

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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According to Sanjay Joshi and Dave Morgan's research,the PFO and Blueline ballasts drive the Radium 400w lamp almost identically in regards to output and spectrum.{The PFO has a higher power consumption and current draw.}Both of these ballasts produce more than a 20% difference in light output when compared to a Magnetic ballast.

They go on to conclude there is no significant differences in spectrum or output among the ballasts when powering up the Iwasaki 400watt lamp.

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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20k's are noted for the coloration they produce in captive corals. 6500k's are great for growth.This is my personal finding as well as the result obtained by other reef aquarists that I know of.

We are beginning to see hobbyists combine the two different lamps to get the best of both worlds.

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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Stony Coral Pigments, Algae Pigments and Captive Lighting

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/s_tyr...ree_060202.html

Very very very long article.... :blink:

An interesting bit is here:

As a basic guideline, strong light is typically achieved with the use of 400 watt halides. Intense light is typically achieved with the use of 1,000 watt halides. Weak and moderate light levels can be achieved with 175 to 250 watt metal halides and power compact fluorescents.

Another:

Q: Not lighting related, but how is stoney coloration affected by lots of nutrients in the water? Some gets more colorful, others get brownish?"

A: Studies have shown that elevated levels of nitrogen (nitrate) can lead to increased density of zoox. This causes the coral to appear more brown. I have also noticed that if the physical environment is not correct (weak current ad inappropiate lighting) the pigments will also fade. That was 'coral pigments' will fade.

Q: What are your thoughts on the usable lifetime on the higher kelvin bulbs? Current thought is that the Iwasaki's are usable for 12-18 months whereas the higher kelvin bulbs need to be replaced every 6-9 months. Do you believe this to be the case?

A: That is true if you maintain a constant photoperiod throughout the lifetime of the bulb. When using Super Blue bulbs I recommend an initial photoperiod from 6 to 8 hours that is slowly increased to 11 to 13 hours by the end of the year. That will get you 1 years worth of use from the Super Blues.

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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We experimented with a simlar setup on old 180g and found that you could visibly see the different colour temperatures, but the iwasaki was out front more in the lighting set-up so perhaps keeping the bulbs parallel to each other would help if you don't want to go messing with your reflectors. The trick we found is to mount both bulbs on the same reflector so that the colours blend together ( tin snips will be your friend )

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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250W radiums are very blue and have very low PAR.

400W Radiums are for whatever reason a different animal that the other wattages. While I haven't actually seen 250W version in action, I have heard the same comments as PJR. I have also seen the 150W DE 20K Radiums in person and way too blue.

*Hey Tanzy... I found your thread in RC!*

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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Metal halide comes in 2 distinct flavors (not including DE [double ended]), they are - Electronic or Magnetic. This is referring to the ballast. Electronic ballasts are more efficient in output and use less energy. However, they do cost more. I and others find that the money they save in energy, makes up for it in the long run. They are also smaller in size and do not get as hot as magnetic ballasts. The other type is magnetic. Magnetic ballasts are bigger, run hot/really hot, not as energy efficient and cheaper. Thats the ballast information. There are also many flavors of bulbs to choose from. You have 6.5k (good for sps growth, but not color- yellow in color), 10k (the standard for most tanks - good growth and good color - crisp white or crisp white with a blue hint, Ushio - AB and others), 13/15k (a very blue bulb that has growth and color as well, but there is not alot of long term data about them), then 20k bulbs (very blue, also known as radiums). They vary in price from 50 on up to 120. Average life is around 12 months.

Now, there are different watts. You have 150, 175, 250, 400 and 1000. For your size tank, anything over 250 is IMO a waste. The higher you go, the hotter the bulb. In turn, the hotter the tank gets. Sometimes this is not an issue.

Knowing that, there are several companies that manufacture ballasts - IceCap (come with 3 year warranty - great cust. service and considered the best! Electronic ballasts only), PFO (warranty is around 2 or 3 years, not sure. Good product from what I hear - magnetic ballasts only), Sunlightsupply (very good from what I hear, new to the reef scene but they have been making them for years. Magnetic only), Blueline (don't hear alot about them. Electronic only). There are a few others, but those are the major players.

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Achilles Tang Newbie

Achilles Tang

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German= AB, Osram and Ushio brands. (someone correct me if Ushio isn't)

Also, to a German, HQI is metal halide.

We are learning that these HQI ballasts can actually light MH bulbs up quite differently than standard MH ballasts (the current Radium with 3 ballasts thread is a great example of that with the PFO HQI ballast vs the 2 e-ballasts)

mbort, all HID lamps have a quartz envelope that contains mercury vapor or sodium and other metal halides and these compounds are excited and produce light. There is no filament.

If you look at your HQI bulb and your single ended MH bulb, you will see a complex of wires and supports holding up the quartz envelope in the single ended bulb. The mish-mash has been severely reduced by having two contact points at either end of the HQI bulb and the outer bulb glass envelope is now much smaller not having to surround all that other junk in the single ended bulb.

But.....there is a filament in each end of a flourescent light.

And there is a filament in a "Quartz halogen" bulb (POS for a reef, don't even consider it) which really is just a souped up incandescent lamp.

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Achilles Tang

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The Radium 400 will operate the best on the pulse start. The pulse start will give you the longest usable lamp life but the Radium will be blue (too blue for some people).

The HQI 400 and other Sodium ballasts will operate the Radium harder (overriding the lamp) making the lamp whiter.

The Ushio 400 will operate on the pulse start ballasts but under drives the lamp. The HQI and other Sodium ballasts will give you the best light output. Note: not all Sodium ballasts are compatible with metal halide lamps.

PaulErik is right on the money (as usual). I am currently running two 400W radiums on a Sunlight Supply pulse start ballast (m135 I believe) and it is just what I was looking for. The Radium is marketed as a Blue bulb so why people like to run it on a 430 Son Agro (sodium ballast I believe) is beyond me. The Radium is really a 360W bulb and overdriving it with a 430 Son Agro brings on premature lamp failure. I want my bulbs to last a little longer than 6 to 9 months.

On the m135 pulse start ballast the bulbs burns a nice blue color and works really well if you use them in conjunction with Euro 10K bulbs. That is what I do and the blend is just right for me. By themselves on a M135 ballast you would probably not like the blue look. Using them in conjunction with 6500 sakis or Euro 10K's is really the way to go.

The Radium 400 will operate similarly on the standard MH ballast but the standard MH ballast is not a good match for the Radium lamp. The standard ballast doesn’t provide the proper type of lamp ignition needed.

The BlueLine electronic will operate the Radium whiter/brighter (to the eye) than the standard/Pulse Start ballast but not as white as the on a HQI or Sodium ballast.

A bare M135 ballast will work prefectly with the Radium.

BradR, sounds like the ignitor isn't working properly. Any 400 watt ballast with an ignitor will start the Radium.

jonboy,

Sorry to say but a H33 MV ballast won't operate the Radium lamp properly. The Radium 400-watt lamp is designed for mercury vapor ballasts plus an ignitor (starter) but North American mercury ballasts are unsuitable for the Radium (400 watt only). A north American Pulse-Start M135 will operate the Radium close to specs. The Pulse-Start provides the proper starting voltage and correct burning amperage.

I personally don’t have any pictures to compare. The Radium on a Pulse-Start M135 will not be as bright as on a sodium ballast or a PFO HQI. The lamp will appear blue but not a solid blue color when used on the Pulse Start M135. Its hard to explain the color of the Radium on a Pulse Start ballast.

The Pulse Start operates the Radium close to specs meaning it operates the lamp close to the manufacturers recommended ballast. The sodium ballasts are not recommended by the manufacturer (for the Radium 400 only) because the ballast provides the lamp with higher current than its designed for.

Pulse Start ballasts will operate standard probe start lamps but its not recommended because of the ignitor.

I tested standard lamps on pulse start ballasts a little over 8 months ago. This is what I found out:

The lamp starts normally and reaches normal light output but some lamps when turned off really fast and turned on again (like a short power interruption) this would cause arcing where the starting electrode is. This is because the ignitor keeps trying to fire a hot lamp. This only happened in a few lamps but can cause problems. The ignitor could fail or the arc could damage the inside of the lamp.

This is one reason Pulse Start ballasts are not recommended for use with North American standard lamps.

All from this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showt...ghlight=wattage

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Tanzy Newbie

Tanzy

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Blueline e-ballasts, especially the 400W ones, are quite popular in the US. It's known to be reliable, efficient and runs all types of bulbs without hassle or tuning. Dr Mac uses them with 400W Radiums for his coral farm. According to Sanjay's test results, the Bluelines are more efficient and slightly brighter in burning Radiums(higher PPFD) than PFO-'HQI'(Son Agro 430W HPS Ballast). I suppose the bulb's life expectancy goes down the drain. Bluelines do cause radio interference in the older models but it has been solved in the new models launched this year.

Icecap are fairly old in the e-ballasts market but the 250W MH ballast was dogged with many problems and only recently fixed. The 400W MH ballast came a bit late, after Blueline has dominated scene.

Blueline e-ballasts can operate on both 110V and 220V straight out of the box. Which is why I bought them. Icecaps need to be tuned at the factory at a price of US$30 or so.

Radiums are in reality something like 60000K bulbs! 250W Radiums aren't any different from the 400W creature, it's the ballasts that drive the bulb differently. Radiums lack violet light and needs actinic supplementation.

HQI stands for Halogen Quartz Iodide. It's a name for a type of MH developed by Osram/Sylvania. People in the states have been misusing it to stand for Euro-spec bulbs or bulbs that require M135 pulse-start ballasts. It has no meaning when taken out of context, it's equivalent to calling all 20000K MH bulbs Radiums or all 6500K bulbs Iwasaki. It's just a name!

BLV is the German company that Ushio bought out.

BLV/Ushios 10000K are crisp white, slightly less green and yellow than Iwasaki.

Aqualine Buchke's AB 10000 bulbs are actually closer to 13000K.

Blueline 10000K+ bulbs are super blue, nearly monochromatic.

post-36-1093875548.jpg

Warning: Heavy handed moderator in operation. Threads and post are liable to be deleted or moved without prior notification.

Moderator's prerogative will be enforced.

Any grievances or complains should be addressed to The Administrator.

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kueytoc Newbie

kueytoc

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:rolleyes: Hi Bro AT, which brand of MH, light range & size would you recommend for a 4ft x 2.5ft x 2.5ft tank ?

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mio CAN-REEF Site: Wrassey World !!!

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Hyper ไฮเปอร์ ; Silly Fools ; Labanoon ; I-Nam ไอน้ำ ; Modern Dog ; Sirasak Ittipolpanish ; Annita - Nisita Pongsong

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Twin-CAMs Power Module ! ; MIO Dream Car ! ; MIO Alter-EGO !

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Ketchup Newbie

Ketchup

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Need some advise.. i have a 2ft tank and current i believe it's running on MH lighting (two tubes)..

Is it advisible to change to one MH and one actinic? The blue actinic is very pleasing and we would love to change it.

Currently have 1 tomato clownfish, 2 hawaiian damselfishs, 1 boxer shrimp, 1 anemone (BTA), 1 hard coral (cant rem the name) and 1 soft coral (zoos?).

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