newbie tank questions

[terryansimon]

alright I just went down to LFS hunting today over at Lim Chu Kang. brings back many vivid memories of my days in Sungei Gedong camp. bleah. enough talking, back to more serious stuff.

Went down to Cor@lf@rm today and spoke to Jon regarding my setup. He was really friendly and all and gave me really crucial advice regarding my setup *or impending setup, depending on how you look at it*. drove down to a couple of other places and then after that went to M@rine |ife and spoke to Henry regarding my setup. and I'm back here armed with some questions for the extremely friendly bunch of SRC! (=

a) according to Jon, setting up a deep sea bed *affectionately known as DSB* is not advisable. reason being that it takes plus/minus one year for the DSB to reach its maturity. and even then, you cannot increase the biological load as it has reached its peak cycling capacity. also with DSB is that lifestock may shuffle them around, and/or you need to make sure that certain parts are undergoing anaerobic respiration. the whole idea of a six inch DSB is for anaerobic respiration to take place, and if the lifestock moves them around, they may either not be anaerobic enough or just become "too anaerobic" *never knew something could become too anearobic. *

and also he said that for sump, DSB is also not advisable. so. if that is the case, then what sort of media filter shall the sump consist of? and if I want a refugium, isn't dsb compulsory? and can the refugium be inbuilt into the sump itself? or must it be part of a seperate compartment?

c) according to Henry, his tank quotation for a 4ft by 2ft by 2.5ft 12mm thick was close to 2k =\ when I changed the height to a 2ft instead, it became considerably cheaper. now I'm in a fix as to whether to get a 4 by 2 by 2 12mm thick or a 3 by 2 by 2 12mm thick....the usual suspect involved is cost of course. should I go for the tank that cost a little over 2K with the safe sound of mind that its safe and reliable? or should I go for those cheaper types? Henry was very frank and told me that you definitely can get them cheaper outside, but whether you get the same assurance is a different thing altogether...urh. help

so my questions are these

a) is DSB really that "jialat"?

is spending close to 2k incredibly ridiculous for a newbie like me? or should I go for a slightly cheaper alternative *ie cheaper tank maker?*

c) and yes. chiller. Henry has a very good deal for a 1.1 chiller. should I get it? my intention is maybe only some fish *no idea on which as yet. need a bit more research*, live rocks and some coral. hardy coral that is.

d) any form of help will be GREATLY appreciated. of course, such help if belted out in person will be better. so. urh. I'll leave my contact number behind if anybody is gracious enough to call me and help me.

e) yes I am open to suggestions not only on tank setup but also on tank makers! any tank makers here? please step forward!

sincerely,

terrence ryan simon

97912405

[shiraz]

there is this reputable tank maker in kelantan lane or road im not really sure.. heard from people that it's quite cheap..

for the DSB, hmmm most people here who have mature tanks, have the DSB and so far, i've only heard of 1 tank crash resulting from a DSB where the PH fell and blew away the sand.. but this would not happen if yopur dsb in in the refugium as there will not be anything strong enought to sift the sand there...

abt the separate compartments, its really up to you.. if u have the space then get separate compartments but personally, if i HAD the space, i would have separate compartments for easier maintenance..

hmmm u didn't ask henry abt the dsb?

[jazzben81]

close to 2 k for 12 mm all round for 4x2x2 tank?

i dont noe the price for tt size..

but i noe the price for 12mm 5x2x2 is abt 1300++

maybe if u want a more variety of choice u can look arnd the forum or at arofantics.com there are a variety of tank makers there.

my tank 4x2x2 10mm all round tank i got it from a guy call tank maker in arofantics at less than a k...

i dont noe about u .

but 4x2x2 10mm works for my marine...

unless u want to have a more 'beautiful' look and u can afford it go for the 12mm...

it never hurts to get thicker tanks.

[terryansimon]

there is this reputable tank maker in kelantan lane or road im not really sure.. heard from people that it's quite cheap..

for the DSB, hmmm most people here who have mature tanks, have the DSB and so far, i've only heard of 1 tank crash resulting from a DSB where the PH fell and blew away the sand.. but this would not happen if yopur dsb in in the refugium as there will not be anything strong enought to sift the sand there...

abt the separate compartments, its really up to you.. if u have the space then get separate compartments but personally, if i HAD the space, i would have separate compartments for easier maintenance..

hmmm u didn't ask henry abt the dsb?

well the deep sea bed really looks...attractive and all. but I'm kinda apprehensive about getting it now since Jon actually advised against it. I'm not too sure lah, but I think further scouting is required before I pull the trigger on this decision.

as for the kelantan lane/road thingy....you happen to have the lobang/contacts/location of them?

[terryansimon]

close to 2 k for 12 mm all round for 4x2x2 tank?

i dont noe the price for tt size..

but i noe the price for 12mm 5x2x2 is abt 1300++

maybe if u want a more variety of choice u can look arnd the forum or at arofantics.com there are a variety of tank makers there.

my tank 4x2x2 10mm all round tank i got it from a guy call tank maker in arofantics at less than a k...

i dont noe about u .

but 4x2x2 10mm works for my marine...

unless u want to have a more 'beautiful' look and u can afford it go for the 12mm...

it never hurts to get thicker tanks.

how was the workmanship for your tank? I'm trying to get in touch with him but...somehow he's not replying to my private messages. damn. hahaha.

back to serious stuff. you mean there is a difference in terms of aesthetics if you chose a 10mm thick tank to a 12mm thick tank?....what difference is there? I thought thicker = better as its a slightly larger surface area/volume ratio for pressure absorbtion?

[jazzben81]

asthetic wise =slightly more 'nice'

when choosing 12mm compare to 10mm of coz any1 would take the 12mm if the price margin is slightly higher....

however for my case. im on a budget.

to me: a chinese saying goes : to kill a chicken , y use a cow knife?

hehe

as long as the tank holds. theres no diff to me.

cheers.

worksmanship wise for my tank is good for me . service excellent.

price wise:best i can find at tt time.

the tank maker real name is gerald. i know him in arofantics forum. nice guy. first time we met up, he brought me to a customer place and show me the customer tank and of coz the beautiful marine set-up the customer has.

well compared to looking at photos only, when u purchase a tank frm any LFS. i feel better looking the actual tank in person.

one thing to note: the tanks are from malaysia.

glass : japan glass. (though u wouldnt noe even if u buy from somewhere who says of how branded their silicon or glass are.)

what matters to me is to see a sample of their work in person.

note kelantan lane tank maker though make cheap tanks. but they make tank only. and dont think they do deliveries according to tt time i call up. worksmanship wise not sure coz never seen before.

but i have seen super cheap 10mm 4ft tank with lousy siliconing etc. at some other places.

so then again its up to u .

take ur time.

look around.

cheers

[Cleartank]

a) is DSB really that "jialat"?

You can run a search on RC, there are a lot of sucesses and failure cases of DSB systems... What i gather is that those failed have somehow disturb the sand bed and thus release some form of toxic into the water killing their priced LS. DSB are to be maintained very 3 yrs... you might want to read up also on Plenum!!

  is spending close to 2k incredibly ridiculous for a newbie like me? or should I go for a slightly cheaper alternative *ie cheaper tank maker?*

I think Hen## quote you tank + sump + cabinet if Im not wrong... Kelantan only tank... So if tank maker you have to source for stand maker.... then stand break, tank maker say stand maker's fault, stand maker say tank maker's fault....

c) and yes. chiller. Henry has a very good deal for a 1.1 chiller.  should I get it? my intention is maybe only some fish *no idea on which as yet. need a bit more research*, live rocks and some coral. hardy coral that is.

Question to me from a fellow reefer is, Coral or fish only, Fish only - no chiller = fine. Coral - chiller = good. No such thing as 1/2 fish 1/2 coral... Although there might be a few reefers that have coral without chiller that might comment otherwise!....

Also about the tank thickness, it voice down to how well you want to sleep at night!!! Thinner glass, not so well, thicker glass, maybe we#.. dream urm... i mean weird dream....

Well, Maybe im wrong?! but just to share!?

[vtec3100]

Check with davidsws in Arofanatics.com..........

He make quality tanks........

[Black]

2K for 4' tank....real high, must be with cabinet or something else. I paid my tank 5x2x2.5' (12mm) + sump 4x1.5x1.5' at only $700. If u find price interesting...PM me. I give u the contact.

[chrislwp]

I bought my tank from Deon in PasirRis.. and I have seen lots of ppl posted their picture using the same tank too, or built by the same person.

FYI, my tank is 4x2x2.5, full cabinate with top. 10mm glass. 15mths

Load - 120kg sand, 70kg LR, 150gallon saltwater..

I estimated that area of 4x2 will weight about 900kg to a ton.

So ifyou are building 3ft. dont need 12mm

[SpiderOne]

Question to me from a fellow reefer is, Coral or fish only, Fish only - no chiller = fine. Coral - chiller = good. No such thing as 1/2 fish 1/2 coral... Although there might be a few reefers that have coral without chiller that might comment otherwise!....

what do u mean by half fish half coral no such thing? ur tank has to either be corals only or fish only? theres plenty of people here who keep corals without chiller. its entirely possible depending on circumstance

[Cleartank]

Sorry, sorry.... what Im meant to say is that if you get a chiller, then you can keep all kind of corals, if no chiller then better keep to fish only.....

Well, I know a lot of reefers here are keeping corals without a chiller and there are other ways to keep the temp down. The statement i made might not be true, but i really think that a serious reefer should provide a ideal environment for the corals and not some sub standard environment as long as they survived. Dun you agreed???

[Achilles Tang]

For long term coral health.... it is better to simulate cooler water conditions around 25C. In tropical waters, water temperature is usually around 25 to 26C and does fluctuates but never exceeds 29C for more than a few hours daily. Bleaching of corals and other inverts happen when there is sustained high temperature around 30 to 31C in the sea.

Only a chiller is able to bring down water temps to 25C in our tropical weather.

Cooler water also helps in many other ways:

1. Reducing the metabolic activities of all inhabitants and thus reducing an excess of respiratory and waste production by-products (a very good thing in a enclosed tank!).

2. Better oxygen diffusion.

3. Reducing the toxicity of ammonia.

4. Lower the bacteria and parasite count as they breed faster in higher temperatures. Evidence has been presented where parasitic flatworms breed a lot faster in warmer waters.

5. Prevents bleaching of corals as the zooxanthellae are not expelled due to excessive metabolic growth.

Based on all these facts, there is a lot more to lose if we skimp on a chiller for our reef tank.

FOWLR tanks can do without a chiller but miss out on benefits of lowered metabolic rate/respiratory/waste production/reduced ammonia toxity etc.

My 2 cents,

AT

[Cleartank]

AT, thanks for rounding it up....

And SpiderOne, apologies for making a incorrect statement earlier. My hands sometimes dun listen to my head

Sometimes when trying to help, one might gives an untrue or incorrect statement but what is most important is that someone else is always there to correct him.

Thats what i love about SRC, there's always something to be learn everyday.

And lets not forget that it all begin with a good intention to help!!! Cheers

[hoppinghippos]

terry: I think you have to see first of all if you want tank only or tank with cabinet, cuz tank with cabinet cuts down the number of available manufacturers, there are numerous tank only manufacturers. plus cabinet you buy must be robust, don't get based purely on price, must see if manufacturer is popular and has good reviews, if cabinet structure looks sound, wood used to good (chengai wood is the best), etc. next 3ft or 4ft, I dare say each has its own "unseen" differences, ie, 4ft tank will need to have more powerful cooling methods, more lights, bigger filtration systems (skimmer, refugium, etc), higher running costs (electricity, water change), etc. all of which should be also considered at the start. Do take your time to shop around for tanks cuz cost and workmanship do vary quite a bit sometimes. 10mm for 3ft is ok, 4ft maybe 10mm or 12 mm is ok.

I"m a newbie too, so cant say much about DSB, but if I"m not wrong, a good refugium will also serve the purpose of a DSB with nitrate and phosphate removal so that's an alternative.

[terryansimon]

2K for 4' tank....real high, must be with cabinet or something else. I paid my tank 5x2x2.5' (12mm) + sump 4x1.5x1.5' at only $700. If u find price interesting...PM me. I give u the contact.

I wanted to ask if it was made of gold, but I thought that that would have been mean.

[terryansimon]

I bought my tank from Deon in PasirRis.. and I have seen lots of ppl posted their picture using the same tank too, or built by the same person.

FYI, my tank is 4x2x2.5, full cabinate with top. 10mm glass. 15mths

Load - 120kg sand, 70kg LR, 150gallon saltwater..

I estimated that area of 4x2 will weight about 900kg to a ton.

So ifyou are building 3ft. dont need 12mm

Deon? hmm care to share his contacts with me or something?

anyways was quoted by a tank maker on arofan website for 1.2k inclusive of sump, cabinet, piping and the works for a 4 by 2 by 2.5 12mm thick.

hmm

damn tempted now but I know I need to shop around somemore. so your contact for that...Deon person/place will be good. (=

[terryansimon]

For long term coral health.... it is better to simulate cooler water conditions around 25C. In tropical waters, water temperature is usually around 25 to 26C and does fluctuates but never exceeds 29C for more than a few hours daily. Bleaching of corals and other inverts happen when there is sustained high temperature around 30 to 31C in the sea.

Only a chiller is able to bring down water temps to 25C in our tropical weather.

Cooler water also helps in many other ways:

1. Reducing the metabolic activities of all inhabitants and thus reducing an excess of respiratory and waste production by-products (a very good thing in a enclosed tank!).

2. Better oxygen diffusion.

3. Reducing the toxicity of ammonia.

4. Lower the bacteria and parasite count as they breed faster in higher temperatures. Evidence has been presented where parasitic flatworms breed a lot faster in warmer waters.

5. Prevents bleaching of corals as the zooxanthellae are not expelled due to excessive metabolic growth.

Based on all these facts, there is a lot more to lose if we skimp on a chiller for our reef tank.

FOWLR tanks can do without a chiller but miss out on benefits of lowered metabolic rate/respiratory/waste production/reduced ammonia toxity etc.

My 2 cents,

AT

what can I say. summed up by the maestro. thanks a lot! (=

and no its definitely much more than just two cents. (=

[terryansimon]

terry: I think you have to see first of all if you want tank only or tank with cabinet, cuz tank with cabinet cuts down the number of available manufacturers, there are numerous tank only manufacturers. plus cabinet you buy must be robust, don't get based purely on price, must see if manufacturer is popular and has good reviews, if cabinet structure looks sound, wood used to good (chengai wood is the best), etc. next 3ft or 4ft, I dare say each has its own "unseen" differences, ie, 4ft tank will need to have more powerful cooling methods, more lights, bigger filtration systems (skimmer, refugium, etc), higher running costs (electricity, water change), etc. all of which should be also considered at the start. Do take your time to shop around for tanks cuz cost and workmanship do vary quite a bit sometimes. 10mm for 3ft is ok, 4ft maybe 10mm or 12 mm is ok.

I"m a newbie too, so cant say much about DSB, but if I"m not wrong, a good refugium will also serve the purpose of a DSB with nitrate and phosphate removal so that's an alternative.

yes I know. upsizes come with prices, even at McDonalds. must add fifty cents for a larger drink and fries. blah blah blah. I think the same is reflected onto this hobby as well. hehz.

I guess the tank makers I'm looking for must make cabinets, because the thought of using a wrought iron stand for the tank is...I don't know. I just want it to look nice lah. chengai wood. hmm. is it really saltwater resistant?

oh well. the long of the short of it is this. thanks for your help. any lobang to recommend?

[Cleartank]

Well, my search for my 6ft tank wif cabinet and sump have ended with a few quote between the region of 1.9-2.5K.... All with good word of mouth gather from SRC... Saw a 4 ft tank at T@p@c selling at 1.5K if i remembered correctly. Stainless steel stand/w doors and sump!!!

Cheers

[jazzben81]

tts ridiculously ex. for wrought iron 4 ft.

wrought iron stand got gold dust ar..

hahah

[SpiderOne]

i think he said stainless steel dude. theres a world of difference

[Cleartank]

The stand is with two diamonds mounted on each end..

[jazzben81]

oops

read too fast.

haha

sorry

stainless steel.

i saw a 4 ft stainless steel for 400 a few months back...

plus sump and tank also cannot be 1500..

maybe i say silver dust now.

hehe

[FuEl]

Wonder why some stainless steel stuff will still end up rusty.....