Ammonia 0.25 After 1 month of Cycling

[bryanong]

My ammonia is still 0.25 after more than 1 month of cycling. But my NO2 and NO3 are 0. Is it normal? Why is it that I can't achieve 0 ammonia? I have turned on my skimmer throughout the cycling stage. I have added bacteria multipler to speed up the cycling process. Am I doing the right thing? Can someone advise? Thanks.

[Tanzy]

Some questions that you need to answer before help or advise can be rendered:

What test kit are you using?

What is in your tank? Live rock?

What did you use to cycle the tank?

[bryanong]

Hi, I'm using Salifert test for Ammonia, NO2, NO3. My tank has only live rock and some lps attached on a few rocks. (note that some of it is dying I think). I'm using Tropical Science Nitromax marine to speed up the process. Is it bcos of the dying lps that cause the Ammonia to raise?

[bryanong]

Another thing to ask. Does re-scaping the live rocks affects the cycling process? Do I need to restart the entire cycling if I re-scape my live rocks?

[bawater]

My tank has only live rock and some lps attached on a few rocks. (note that some of it is dying I think). I'm using Tropical Science Nitromax marine to speed up the process. Is it bcos of the dying lps that cause the Ammonia to raise?

yup, the LPS should be the source of ammonia and once you remove the dying corals you should be fine.

Rescaping shouldn't cause any upset to parameters except it will stir up some paticulate matter- no worries.

You don't have to keep adding bacteria - maybe only to jump start if you wish but at a month the bacteria colonies should be established. At this stage- it makes no difference if you add more, less or none

Just keep an eye on the ammonia levels, 0.25 is not an emergency but an alert signal.

Or another unlikely extra source of ammonia is chloramine from tap water,which is chlorine and ammonia. Once the chlorine part is broken down you will be left with ammonia.

I don't think this is an issue as it is minute and will be processed by your filtration, unless you do 50-100% daily water changes fresh from the tap. This is just an extra source, along with uneaten food and fish waste.

[bryanong]

yup, the LPS should be the source of ammonia and once you remove the dying corals you should be fine.

Rescaping shouldn't cause any upset to parameters except it will stir up some paticulate matter- no worries.

You don't have to keep adding bacteria - maybe only to jump start if you wish but at a month the bacteria colonies should be established. At this stage- it makes no difference if you add more, less or none

Just keep an eye on the ammonia levels, 0.25 is not an emergency but an alert signal.

Or another unlikely extra source of ammonia is chloramine from tap water,which is chlorine and ammonia. Once the chlorine part is broken down you will be left with ammonia.

I don't think this is an issue as it is minute and will be processed by your filtration, unless you do 50-100% daily water changes fresh from the tap. This is just an extra source, along with uneaten food and fish waste.

Do I have to remove the dying lps? But it is together with a piece of my live rock and it is at the bottom and being stacked by other live rocks. What can I do about it?

[bawater]

But it is together with a piece of my live rock and it is at the bottom and being stacked by other live rocks.

Which is why it is dying in the first place , if you want to rescape this is the best time to do it. Remove that rock and break off that portion with the dying coral. (use a hammer & an old screwdriver as a chisel- *note old because screwdriver will rust)

[bryanong]

Which is why it is dying in the first place , if you want to rescape this is the best time to do it. Remove that rock and break off that portion with the dying coral. (use a hammer & an old screwdriver as a chisel- *note old because screwdriver will rust)

I think it died bcos of the temperature (32 degrees) in the tank during the cycling stage before I get a chiller. Is it really a must to remove it as I have just re-scape the live rocks yesterday and it would be very tedious to remove all the rocks out and remove the dying lps. Thanks a lot bawater for your reply.

[jervismun]

Things do die during the ANN Cycle and it ur 32ºC may not be the sole cause. I think 0.25 is quite expected for a cycling tank. If Nitrite and Nitrate are not detectable, then the cycling process is somehow incomplete (a sign of deficiency in Nitrifying Bacteria).

[jervismun]

Oh sorry... re read your posts... em... off your skimmer... I suspect your protein skimmer is extracting out the Nitrifying Bacteria you added into the tank.

[jervismun]

Oh dear... something wrong with the server... please do not get confused by my previous postings

[bryanong]

Oh sorry... re read your posts... em... off your skimmer... I suspect your protein skimmer is extracting out the Nitrifying Bacteria you added into the tank.

Hi bro jervismun, just off my skimmer will do reduce Ammonia to 0? Currently my NO2 and NO3 are 0. Bro bawater said it's bcos of the dying lps that cause Ammonia to be 0.25. But my skimmer is not extracting out anything much. Hardly see anything being skimmed out. Anyway, will give it a try before I remove the dying lps from the rocks by breaking the rocks.

[jervismun]

Hi bro jervismun, just off my skimmer will do reduce Ammonia to 0? Currently my NO2 and NO3 are 0. Bro bawater said it's bcos of the dying lps that cause Ammonia to be 0.25. But my skimmer is not extracting out anything much. Hardly see anything being skimmed out. Anyway, will give it a try before I remove the dying lps from the rocks by breaking the rocks.

It's hard to tell at which stage you are right now... there are 2 scenarios:

Scenario #1: Good news!

You already gone through the ANN cycle... the LR already been cured within the 1 month period... all the Ammonia caused by the curing of LR been already converted to Nitrite, then Nitrate. Since the amount of Nitrate is not significant, your test kit is unable to detect it. Job done. Then... a decaying LPS in the tank suddenly raise the Ammonia to 0.25 (which is not a crisis for a relatively new tank). If the Nitrifying Bacteria (N.Bact) already in place residing/multiplying inside your LR, the 0.25 Ammonia will be transformed to Nitrite, then Nitrate in 2 to 3 days. You can run your skimmer as usual (if preferred).

Scenario #2: Not so good news

The ANN cycle has barely begun... something went wrong for the past 1 month... there isn't sufficient N.Bact growth in the system... hence its incapability to convert the 0.25 Ammonia to Nitrite. The 0.25 Ammonia level may stay for a while until your N.Bact is ready to break it down into a less toxic form (Nitrite, then Nitrate). Maybe, try another brand of N.Bact for a change. Off your skimmer totally, let the things rot a bit... higher Ammonia will speed up N.Bact growth anyway... but the bad news is... your tank is not ready for fishes/corals... you probably have to wait for 2 to 3 weeks more.

Scenario #3:

You test kits are not doing its job... possibly expired or somehow contaminated. Do share with us which brand of test kits you using and where/when you bought it.

Before Stocking with LS:

1) Change a huge proportion of the cycling water with properly mixed salt water

2) Test tank water for all major/crucial parameters

3) Adjust all "off the mark" parameters back to acceptable range

4) Run your protein skimmer full force

5) Read more about "how to stock LS" to avoid disappointment

Do keep us updated... we will be with you along the way... but right now, you need to figure out which scenario you are in... perhaps giving us a lot of more information will help... including whatever happened for the past 2 weeks...

Another thing... most protein skimmers will take at least 2 to 3 days to kick-in properly... so turning it "on/off" or tuning it too often for the first few days will stop it from functioning properly.

[bryanong]

It's hard to tell at which stage you are right now... there are 2 scenarios:

Scenario #1: Good news!

You already gone through the ANN cycle... the LR already been cured within the 1 month period... all the Ammonia caused by the curing of LR been already converted to Nitrite, then Nitrate. Since the amount of Nitrate is not significant, your test kit is unable to detect it. Job done. Then... a decaying LPS in the tank suddenly raise the Ammonia to 0.25 (which is not a crisis for a relatively new tank). If the Nitrifying Bacteria (N.Bact) already in place residing/multiplying inside your LR, the 0.25 Ammonia will be transformed to Nitrite, then Nitrate in 2 to 3 days. You can run your skimmer as usual (if preferred).

Scenario #2: Not so good news

The ANN cycle has barely begun... something went wrong for the past 1 month... there isn't sufficient N.Bact growth in the system... hence its incapability to convert the 0.25 Ammonia to Nitrite. The 0.25 Ammonia level may stay for a while until your N.Bact is ready to break it down into a less toxic form (Nitrite, then Nitrate). Maybe, try another brand of N.Bact for a change. Off your skimmer totally, let the things rot a bit... higher Ammonia will speed up N.Bact growth anyway... but the bad news is... your tank is not ready for fishes/corals... you probably have to wait for 2 to 3 weeks more.

Scenario #3:

You test kits are not doing its job... possibly expired or somehow contaminated. Do share with us which brand of test kits you using and where/when you bought it.

Before Stocking with LS:

1) Change a huge proportion of the cycling water with properly mixed salt water

2) Test tank water for all major/crucial parameters

3) Adjust all "off the mark" parameters back to acceptable range

4) Run your protein skimmer full force

5) Read more about "how to stock LS" to avoid disappointment

Do keep us updated... we will be with you along the way... but right now, you need to figure out which scenario you are in... perhaps giving us a lot of more information will help... including whatever happened for the past 2 weeks...

Another thing... most protein skimmers will take at least 2 to 3 days to kick-in properly... so turning it "on/off" or tuning it too often for the first few days will stop it from functioning properly.

Hi bro Jervismun, thanks for your help. Let me explain the whole scenerio. I started my new tank slightly more than a month ago. I setup my tank and top it up with salt water bought from lfs. Let it run for a week before I added live rocks (bought from a fellow reefer who gave up reefing). There are a couple of lps attached to the live rocks. During that time, the temperature of my tank is around 32 degrees. I turn of both the blue light and skimmer (Dymax LS 40) on after that. I noticed that a the first few days the lps did open up. But later on, it started to peel off from the rocks. After that I added Nitrifying Bacteria to speed up the process. Bought a chiller 3 weeks later and chill the tank to 27 degrees. Did a re-scaping of my live rocks a couple of times (first time is 4th week and second time is last Monday). Hope that you understand my explaination and have a clearer picture in mind. Thanks in advance.

[jervismun]

Now this may be the important factor... the LR.

Ok, when you bought the LR from another reefer, do you pick them out from his/her tank? If yes, what's the total time in between the removing of LR from his tank into your tank water? I am just speculating (at the moment) that you may not necessarily have to go through the conventional ANN cycle as you introduced some matured cured LR instead of uncured LR from LFS.

I still don't think temperature is the main factor here... I've seen some tanks (there's one in Reborn FOWLR running at 33ºC during day time)

I will try my best to help you along the way... coz I'm also using Cured Matured LR from reefers... coz I hate the curing process... the smell... the worms...

[bryanong]

Now this may be the important factor... the LR.

Ok, when you bought the LR from another reefer, do you pick them out from his/her tank? If yes, what's the total time in between the removing of LR from his tank into your tank water? I am just speculating (at the moment) that you may not necessarily have to go through the conventional ANN cycle as you introduced some matured cured LR instead of uncured LR from LFS.

I still don't think temperature is the main factor here... I've seen some tanks (there's one in Reborn FOWLR running at 33ºC during day time)

I will try my best to help you along the way... coz I'm also using Cured Matured LR from reefers... coz I hate the curing process... the smell... the worms...

Bro Jervismun, think the time during is around 1-2 hours (including the transportation and into the tank). Is there a problem cos the lps still open the next day when I turn on the blue lights. Thanks for your help.

[jervismun]

Bro Jervismun, think the time during is around 1-2 hours (including the transportation and into the tank). Is there a problem cos the lps still open the next day when I turn on the blue lights. Thanks for your help.

I'm not worry about the LPS really... I'm more concern about the N.Bacts in those matured LR... you transport the LR dry or in a bucket filled with water from the reefer's tank?

[bryanong]

I transport it dry. Will the live rocks become dead?

[jervismun]

I transport it dry. Will the live rocks become dead?

For 2 hours... well... this is the complicated part... there are actually 2 different groups of bacterias in our LR, aerobic and anaerobic:

1) Aerobic - Dwell on the surface / consumes O2 / converts Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate

2) Anaerobic - Dwell deep inside our LR / consumes CO2 / converts Nitrate to Nitrogen (disperse to air)

I suspect/suggest:

a) Your Aerobic (surface) bacterias been wiped-out significantly during that 2 hours of dry transportation. However, the Anaerobic bacterias can still be very alive... good news... but unfortunately these anaerobic bacterias will not function much atm as there isn't any Nitrate for them to break down.

b ) Your system doesn't contain sufficient Aerobic bacterias to break down the Ammonia (caused by rotting LPS). Without sufficient numbers, the bacterias will not be able to bring the Ammonia to the next less toxic form, Nitrite. So, you ANN cycle sorta stuck at A.

c) The bacteria starter you have been adding into the tank is not functioning. Try other brand, go full dosage. Off your protein skimmer as high Ammonia level will encourage bacteria growth.

d) Don't mess with the water by doing water change or dosing "anti-ammonia" products... it's normal for a cycling tank to contains high Ammonia.

e) Get more reliable test kits (eg. Salifert or Tropic Marin) and keep track of your A N N level. Do remember to make sure your other basic parameters are in check. Salinity (Sg) and pH plays a very important role. Temperature is not critical at this stage, but if you prefer, you can run your chiller to maybe set the water not exceeding 30ºC. You can off your lights if there isn't any LPS left... and they require WHITE light to survive, not BLUE only.

I am still learning actually... so appreciate if any bro/sis can help further or even correct me if I'm giving any wrong advice or further complicating the matters

[bryanong]

Bro Jervismun, any brand of bacteria starter to recommend? I'm using Salifert test kits for A N N. There's still some mushrooms in it. Do I have to on my white lights?

[jervismun]

Bro Jervismun, any brand of bacteria starter to recommend? I'm using Salifert test kits for A N N. There's still some mushrooms in it. Do I have to on my white lights?

I tried Aquapharm Bacter Starter when I started my Nano the last time... good and quite reasonably priced Just remember to off your protein skimmer... or else u will see blue skimmate.

WHAT??? Without WHITE lights... almost all ur corals will rot!!!

[bryanong]

Is it bcos of I did not turn on my white lights? I have been turning on my blue lights all this while? Is that the reasons for the Ammonia to be 0.25?

[jervismun]

Is it bcos of I did not turn on my white lights? I have been turning on my blue lights all this while? Is that the reasons for the Ammonia to be 0.25?

Possible... becoz you do not provide sufficient light... the LPS and polyps and mushrooms perished... causing your tank to have a considerable amount of Ammonia... furthermore your tank doesn't have sufficient N.Bact to help break down... so you're stuck with high Ammonia. Don't worry, observe your remaining corals. On your WHITE lights around 6 hour a day for the next 3 days, then increase to 8 hours. See if your corals are decaying/rotting, if yes, try to remove them from the tank, if can't remove (stuck to LR) then switch on your protein skimmer to run full blast! Continue to add bacteria starter.

And don't add any LR or fishes at the moment... perhaps some snails if your algae is getting a bit out of control (after you switch on your WHITE light).

All the best bro

[tigershark]

in the 1st place, u shouldnt put in ur LPS b4 the tank is fully cycled....

[bryanong]

Bro Jervismun, do I have to on the white lights for so long? I'm using 250W MH cos my tank is 3 x 2 x 2.5. I was thinking of turning on my blue lights for 4 hours followed by white light for 2 hrs then blue lights 4 hrs. Is that alright?

Bro TigerShark, the a couple lps was already on the live rocks which I bought from a fellow reefer who gave up reefing.