my 2 nemo died...

[surferguy1978]

Hi guys,

need your advices.

I'm new to this hobby and my tank is a pico tank. about 1 ft cube with hang on filter. filter media include, biohome, carbon and sponge. I let this tank cycle for 1 month and below are the parameter

ammonia: 0

nitrite: 0

nitrate: 12.5mg/l

i remember there is a spike in ammonia and since now it is 0, i would say the cycling is completed. therefore, i went to purchase 3 livestock last sunday.

Got 2 true percula clownfish, and 1 cleaner shrimp.

However, my 2 clownfish died this morning when i woke up! less than 2 days but my shrimp is fine! on the sunday when i place my clownfish in the tank, it doesn't look good when they keep swimming actively at the surface of the water. on monday, when i woke up, i found that one of my clownfish jump out of the tank! but surpisely it still alive! i place it back in the tank and now all my clown fish is dead... very sad n disappointing and a bad start to this hobby.

What causes the clownfishes to die?

1. Temperature hit 30 degree. could this be the problem?

2. Nitrate too high?

3. Notice a thin layer of oil on the surface when i look at the water against the lights. Could this be the reason?

4. Not enough good bateria? Talking about this bateria, how u know u have the right amout of bateria?

For now i will stop buying fishes but change 50% of the water. Guys, any advise why my clown fishes die???

Thanks!

[Tanga]

Bro your parameters are all ok but need to find out how you start the ANN cycle. Do you have live rock in the place for ANN cycle.

[cdckjn]

I have this problem initially when I 1st started 1ft tank, I did not put in any live rock, but I used sea water from Punggol beach - this lasted 1.5 months before it all totally crashed. So 1st question, you really need live rocks in your tank to established it. Your water is mixed with salt or sea water?

The layer of oil, your hang on filter needs a surface skimmer to remove it.

Or have it done like my tank..

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...topic=45280&hl=

This has been going since 14 Feb this year so now it is about 3 months already.

[surferguy1978]

thanks for the reply.

yup. got live rocks...

my entire ANN cycle is like tat.

1. put in tap water with salt and mix it. let it run for about 1 week.

2. put it grade 1 sand and let it run for a few days. (approximately 3 days)

3. go to buy a big piece of live rock. let it cycle for 1 week. notice ammonia spike in sera test kit.

4. give away this big live rock cause it taking lotsa space in my tank.

5. purchase another 3 small pieces of live rock and leave it in the tank for 1 week and put in biohome into the hang on filter.

6 on saturday, measure the parameter and everything is ok. Therefore go buy the fishes on sunday.

but my clownfishes still die... can clownfishes survive in temp up to 30 degree? does the thin layer of oil causes lack of oxygen in the tank which causes the clownfish to swim on the surface which inevitablely lead to their death?

[surferguy1978]

Hi cdckjn

thanks for ur advise. actually my colleague also have a small 1ft tank and running hang on filter without skimmer in the office and his 2 nemos are doing well.

anyway, do u know of any place which sell nano skimmer which can fit into a 1 ft cube tank?

ur tank at least have an overflow which is fantastic! but my 1ft tank can't incorporate an overflow...

[arcanehacker]

Hi guys,

need your advices.

I'm new to this hobby and my tank is a pico tank. about 1 ft cube with hang on filter. filter media include, biohome, carbon and sponge. I let this tank cycle for 1 month and below are the parameter

ammonia: 0

nitrite: 0

nitrate: 12.5mg/l

i remember there is a spike in ammonia and since now it is 0, i would say the cycling is completed. therefore, i went to purchase 3 livestock last sunday.

Got 2 true percula clownfish, and 1 cleaner shrimp.

However, my 2 clownfish died this morning when i woke up! less than 2 days but my shrimp is fine! on the sunday when i place my clownfish in the tank, it doesn't look good when they keep swimming actively at the surface of the water. on monday, when i woke up, i found that one of my clownfish jump out of the tank! but surpisely it still alive! i place it back in the tank and now all my clown fish is dead... very sad n disappointing and a bad start to this hobby.

What causes the clownfishes to die?

1. Temperature hit 30 degree. could this be the problem?

2. Nitrate too high?

3. Notice a thin layer of oil on the surface when i look at the water against the lights. Could this be the reason?

4. Not enough good bateria? Talking about this bateria, how u know u have the right amout of bateria?

For now i will stop buying fishes but change 50% of the water. Guys, any advise why my clown fishes die???

Thanks!

What causes the clownfishes to die?

1. Temperature hit 30 degree. could this be the problem?

No problems for Fishes and shirmps.

2. Nitrate too high?

Nope. Its ok.

3. Notice a thin layer of oil on the surface when i look at the water against the lights. Could this be the reason?

Its normal.

4. Not enough good bateria? Talking about this bateria, how u know u have the right amout of bateria?

How much rocks you have. Bacteria house in rocks, sand, substrates like bio-rings, bio-home, etc.

[arcanehacker]

thanks for the reply.

yup. got live rocks...

my entire ANN cycle is like tat.

1. put in tap water with salt and mix it. let it run for about 1 week.

2. put it grade 1 sand and let it run for a few days. (approximately 3 days)

3. go to buy a big piece of live rock. let it cycle for 1 week. notice ammonia spike in sera test kit.

4. give away this big live rock cause it taking lotsa space in my tank.

5. purchase another 3 small pieces of live rock and leave it in the tank for 1 week and put in biohome into the hang on filter.

6 on saturday, measure the parameter and everything is ok. Therefore go buy the fishes on sunday.

but my clownfishes still die... can clownfishes survive in temp up to 30 degree? does the thin layer of oil causes lack of oxygen in the tank which causes the clownfish to swim on the surface which inevitablely lead to their death?

you do the ANN cycle and then give up the only rock that was in??!!... and then you add new rocks??!!!.. .. did you see a spike again? Your cycle will start again when you removed that one and only rock and added those few small pieces...

anyway 1 week for cycling might be too "adventurous"... you should leave it for more than 2 weeks.. esp after you see a spike, leave it there for another 5 days or so...then change bout 30-50% water.

What's you salinity level?

BTW clowns have the tendancy to swim at the surface when first intro.. its normal.

[Marinesavy]

i doubt is due to temp.... unless you have corals which require temp 30 and below... fishes should be alright. the think layer of oil. me have it too cause i having the 24g nano cube without a skimmer... my fishes and corals are doing fine too for almost about 6 months but i change water every week.

by the way, true perc are consider moderate fish, not too hardy... fish could be stress during the journey back.

[Qxnviolet]

Hrmz, agree with the bros that the temperature is definately not the caused of the deaths. In any case, the shrimps which is much more sensitive to high temperature would proberbly perish way before your clowns if its due to high temperature. Did you ensure your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates were in acceptable levels after you changed your LRs? If possible try get a HOB filter with surface skimming capability. It'll help filter away the top layer of "oil". Whats the flowrate of your filter?

[lightbolt75]

Bro, sometimes shit happens and nobody knows why. My suggestion is to let the tank run for another 2 weeks and then try intro the clowns again.

[Qxnviolet]

Hrmz, got 1 more question....were the fishes feeding?

[barnacle]

not enuff bacteria

5. purchase another 3 small pieces of live rock and leave it in the tank for 1 week and put in biohome into the hang on filter.

i week is too early....

do 20% water change...use RO/DI or distilled water. not direct tap water, if u

mix your own salt

leave it for another 2 - 4 wks. u can get those bottle bacteria to speed up the

process.

check water parameter. do 10% water change.

do weekly 5% -10% water change

[andylee]

Most imptly, how did u intro the new fish?

[FionaFiona]

ur constant changing of liverocks caused the whole problem.

U took out the big piece and add in another 3 piece, such action basically brings you back to square one. your tank was not properly cycled, hence caused the death of the fishes.

[arcanehacker]

also.. hangon filters doesn't have enough space for much media.. What I do for my Nano cube, I put 2 hangon filters.

One Ehiem Liberty 200. converted it into a biological and mechanical filter. Took all those filter slots out and put in as much media as possible.

The other is a Jebo HO filter with skimmer.

[colinsoon]

can anyone tell me, why is it that a tank, not properly cycled even though the NH4 and NO2 is at zero, NO3 at 12.5mg/l, kills a fish? what actually kills it? my experience tells me only spikes of NH4 will do the killing... wat are the other possible ways of killing fishes?

[Zappy Kiwi]

Hey surferguy1978,

Sad to hear that your first pets to ur hobby died. Take a small break, think thru wat you have done wrong, and maybe can start again.

Oh, you mentioned that ur fish jumped out of the tank? Any reason how that occured? If i m not wrong, clownfish seldom jump out of tank.. (at least not as common as dartfishes). Also, fishes sustain "internal injuries" when they jump off tank and land on the ground. It may look okay immediately, and then die suddenly tomorrow.

[arcanehacker]

can anyone tell me, why is it that a tank, not properly cycled even though the NH4 and NO2 is at zero, NO3 at 12.5mg/l, kills a fish? what actually kills it? my experience tells me only spikes of NH4 will do the killing... wat are the other possible ways of killing fishes?

Nitrite bro .. nitrite NO2.. not many fishes can tolerate high NO2. Ammonia and Nitrite maybe at 0 because:

- there is no spike yet. Since you said your initial large rock cycling. Then you took it out and place another 3 small rocks. Then did you test again after that? Everyfew days?

- By the time you measure, the NO2 spike might have gone down and fishes already died. Since yours is a small tank.. spike might be just for a few days.

or maybe the fishes weren't eating from the start.. cynite caught LSs..

[colinsoon]

well, my very first hand me down tank, water included, contains over 100ppm NO2 even after 50percent water change. damn terrible. but my fishes still swimming happily around, ate like pigs, oh my anemone is fine too. so are the cleaners...

i mean, not to say or prove anything, juz sharing my experience. cos of this personal experience, its quite hard for me to understand why do fishes die. high ammonia i agree, cos i got a 80% wipe out recently, but for NO2 or NO3, not sure wat harms they cause. one thing i sure agree with is that high NO2 causes aggressiveness...

[cityofangels]

I agree with barnacle.. 1 week is way too short a cycling period. If you do your readings, most of them would suggest 6-8 weeks of cycling period. I am surprised your clowns died before your cleaner shrimps as cleaners are more sensitive to spikes in your tank.

[arcanehacker]

well, my very first hand me down tank, water included, contains over 100ppm NO2 even after 50percent water change. damn terrible. but my fishes still swimming happily around, ate like pigs, oh my anemone is fine too. so are the cleaners...

i mean, not to say or prove anything, juz sharing my experience. cos of this personal experience, its quite hard for me to understand why do fishes die. high ammonia i agree, cos i got a 80% wipe out recently, but for NO2 or NO3, not sure wat harms they cause. one thing i sure agree with is that high NO2 causes aggressiveness...

100 on NO2??!!... thats a record.. must be faulty or unaccurate test kit.

[surferguy1978]

hi all,

thanks for all your replies! i been reading up sgreefclub since last year sept and yet this sort of misfortunes happen...

zappy kiwi: on the first day, my nemo jump out of the water. woke up in the morning to find one of it gone. search around in the tank cannot find and eventually found it under the table. this nemo is a surivival man! i put it in the water and suddenly it comes alive! surpise me alot! probably stay in the air for a while tat y didn't die. i came to the conclusion that it get bully by the other nemo till it jump out of the tank.

andylee: i place the fishes directly into the first tank. seen my colleagues do tat and his fishes are doing well. total stock in the tank is 3 for a 1ft tank before both nemos died.

qxnviolet: the pump comes together with the hang on filter and the tank. it in a package form. i have tune the current flow to the lowest. initially i tot the current was giving my nemos problem so i tune it to the lowest. before i go n buy the fishes, i do a test again to ensure the ANN is within acceptable range. i feed the fish on the first nite and it ate some of the food. second nite also ate some of the food. third day morning and it dead... btw, where can i buy a hangon filter with surface skimmer incorporated together?

arcanehacker: i use those floating type of hydrometer to measure the salinity. it within the safe region of the green zone. can't remember the value at the now but it definitely at the green zone. i measure the ANN on saturday and found it to be ok and so next day go n buy the shrimp and fishes loh....

fionafiona: i think that bateria can exist on the sand bed, filter media etc. tat y i think tat if i gave away tat piece of rock and buy a new live rocks, the existing bateria in the sand and filter media could still sustain the environment of the fish tank... but even so, i waited for 1 wk for the new live rock to settle down in my tank and measure the parameter every 2 days.

if ANN is not cycle properly, my shrimp could have died with the nemos. agree? if only there is a way to measure the correct amount of bateria in the tank like how u measure ammonia etc...

so wat is the post mortem result ar?

1. temperature too high? unlikely since most of u guys say it not the temperature issue...

2. not enough bateria?

3. not enough oxygen in the tank?

[barnacle]

can anyone tell me, why is it that a tank, not properly cycled even though the NH4 and NO2 is at zero, NO3 at 12.5mg/l, kills a fish? what actually kills it? my experience tells me only spikes of NH4 will do the killing... wat are the other possible ways of killing fishes?

there's a lot of factors that may kill LS.

ammonia, sick/unhealthy LS, infection, stress, cynide caught fish,

attack from crab or other LS, poor water condition, parasite, hand foot

and mouth disease, accident(swim too fast knock against rock/glass),

trap in the rock, kena suck by pump, jump out of water trying to show

off other fish he can walk, kena chop by fish monger..........a lot lah, collin.

type until cannot finish........

[barnacle]

fionafiona: i think that bateria can exist on the sand bed, filter media etc. tat y i think tat if i gave away tat piece of rock and buy a new live rocks, the existing bateria in the sand and filter media could still sustain the environment of the fish tank... but even so, i waited for 1 wk for the new live rock to settle down in my tank and measure the parameter every 2 days.

bacteria may grow at sand,filter media....etc, but it take time

for it to grow more. and more ammonia needs more bacteria.

with less bacteria in your tank, it could only break certain amount

of ammonia and the rest will remain in your tank.

[Tanga]

Bro the fact is you did not go thru ANN cycle properly, now I suggest you buy fritz #9 nitrifying bacteria pour 1/4 bottle in and let it cycle for another 2 weeks and do not add anything else.

my 0.02ct