newbie needs help

[derrickyeo]

Hi,

after giving up marine keeping (unsuccessful) abt 5 yrs ago,, i planned to start the hobby again. I have the 3 ft tank ( 6 or 8mm)ready... spend three days diy pipings ...just a plain 3ft tank, using jebo 838 bio chemical canister filter... and Kurthorn Kirpy chiller(220v/50hz) ....with weipro SA2014 venturi driven skimmer.... not planning to buy any live stocks yet.... cause wan to make sure eveything ready... i had done the following...

1) 3ft by 18 by 18 tank...

2) i have connect the pipings from the tank to the canister...

3) connect the hose n pipe from the canister to the chiller....

4) connect the pipe from chiller back to main tank

5) connect an ehiem pump to the weipro skimmer

due to i connect the piping straightaway from the canister to the chiller, the output current is very little.. i had added an power head L2500 to increase the circlulation in the tank. My chiller had set at 26 degree..

Pipings had been sealed with white rubber tape( for tape ) together with wire tape and oso cemented with cement glue. had set the water running for 2 days.. all leaks had been rectified and no more leaking...

i had just added the marine salt.... had oso reserved some live rocks from a brudder... before i start the cycling...

Sorri for the lengthy mail... but i would like to check with experts..... if my set up is rite? i understand that a sump is better but i really have no space for a bigger tank nor sump... budget tight so diy pipings n buy 2nd hand skimmer n chiller..

Pls guide me if my set up is right...or anything i need to change or amend.. Planned to start cycling process in 3 days time for a period of about a month or so...

i planned to do tis..

1) add in 2nd hand( washed) grade 1 nd 0 sand.

2) put in the live rocks..

3) check sanity ( using the hydrometer )

4) put in a small portion of dead prawn for cycling

5) after about 3 days and a week, check for ammonia

6) once ammonia goes down, then wait for a week to see if nitrate goes up

7) then when nitrate goes up, then check if nitrite is presence....

8) if so, should be about 3 weeks liao,,,then about another week (to play safe) add in a couple of livestock like fish... to see if ok..

9) once ok, i add in a bit of coral n live stocks, one by one..

10) lastly, topped up water 2 weekly and check water condition once a month...

Need to ask

1) what light should i get for my corals?

2) monthly check, what should i check? sanity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, Ph, phosprate and ?

3) do i need a calcium reactor? wat is it for?

from my study at the forum,,i managed to gather this info... hopefully i did not read wrong or did not corkup any process... Pls,,, experts and current marine keepers, feel free to quote, advise, crititise or anything, as long can help me maintain a healthy plus beautiful marine tank... will be waiting for all yr guidance...thanks for reading my lenghty mail,.,,

i seldom log in due to work, so,,

may sms me at 90662246 if any advise u guys can give me,,thanks a lot,,happy marine keeping...

regards

Newbie yeo

[hondaker]

think u got the ANN cycle mixed up a bit

it should be Ammonia--->Nitrite--->Nitrate

6mm sounds a bit thin for 3ft?

somemore your are using SA2014, which i believe once filled with water, gonna be quite heavy and if hanging on to the tank, might cause unwanted pressures.

for safety sake, if u really gonna use 6mm, be sure to layout your LRs in a way that it is not touching any side of the tank

lighting wise, what kinda corals are u going for?

T5HO should suffice for most corals, unless you're going for SPS, and the kind of corals you want to keep, u got to adjust the different areas of water flow in your tank as well (Low/Medium/High)

Sandwise, why don't you get new sand? 2nd hand sand might contain unwanted detrius, causing more problems in future

Hope my post helps a bit, still learning here as well

[Tanga]

Bro you have plan your starup well the only thing to worry about is the thickness of the tank. For your sand wash it thoroughly should be OK.

Lightings should get T5

Only add in live stock after the 4th week and make sure change 30% of the water.

[jervismun]

From my experience (quite limited actually) with my new tank:

Before I start to confuse others, just note that I started my tank more than a week ago, new tank, introduced 20kg of LR from another reefer's tank plus some LR transferred from my existing tank.

Also, note that I quickly transfer the LR from his tank to mine within a time frame of 45min. If the LR are already out of water (without proper care) when you collect it, you can regard them as DEAD ROCK already.

1. If you are adding sand from another tank and LR from another reefer's tank, the ANN cycle may not be as straight-forward as planned... ur A -> N -> N. You may even find that an Ammonia spike never happens at all. The conventional ANN cycle (with recommended time frame) is only for new setups with uncured rocks and new sand bed. So do not get crazy over your water condition if there isn't a single trace of Ammonia after running the tank for a while.

2. Now, it really depends on which method you want to follow. For me, since I refuse to throw in a market prawn to rot in my new tank, I follow the advice of an author instead. The book offers great explainations on setup with matured (cured) LR and sand (similar with yours). According to the author, ANN may or may not happen. And any form of disastrous spikes are to be seen as a negative factor to the cured LR inside our tank. BACTERIAS already populated most of the LR you introduced into the tank, so the objective here is to maintain them and create a suitable environment for them to multiply quickly. In order to achieve optimum water quality (even from the start), the author suggested the following:

• Skim, skim, skim. Do not let anything rot in the tank, not needed. Why wipe out all the organisms that comes with the mature LR and start all over again?

• Test, test, test. Make sure all major parameters are up to acceptable range. Test every 2 to 3 days.

• Lights are optional, recommended if your Phosphate is under control (so no major algae bloom). Must have at least 3 to 4 hours of low light (no need MH) to allow for the encrusted coralline to continue growing... that is if the LR comes with it.

• Add some Nitrifying bacteria (tablets or solutions) to speed up the process, especially if you do not have any old media, sponge, etc. to be transferred from an established tank.

3. I also confirmed this with 2 other LFS. Both of them agree that artificially creating Ammonia spike by throwing-in-a-market-prawn-to-rot method is only for new setup with uncured rocks... even then they feel that it is unnessary as there will be plenty of rotting in the uncured rocks. The question is, why create a disaster in the tank? It doesn't happen in nature

I think a lot of us follow the ANN like a text book and taking too much emphasis on the results, so suddenly having high Ammonia is something to brag about during the cycle... lol. I was one of the confused soul... before I decided to listen to an author instead... and just stick to one... coz different authors have different methods...

4. I respect your patience regarding waiting time for the cycling... great! Do stick to that if you can resist the temptation... one thing everybody agree upon is, there's no such thing as too much cycling time.

Just another approach I guess... hope will not change your plan too much. If you ever wonder the title of the book...

Reef Invertebrates: An Essential Guide to Selection, Care and Compatibilty - S$79.00

By Anthony Calfo, Robert Fenner

Bought from Reefdepot.com.sg

All the best to your new tank

[colinsoon]

wah bro, write essay ah.. hahaha..

[KTLK]

bros here already said what I wanted to say,a point to mention here is its good to see you plan everything well & make sure u did the right things b4 proceed...

With these I'm sure your comeback will be a very successful one

Happy reefing

[derrickyeo]

Hi guys

im glad to see u guys helping me with yr advise.. really, appreciate appreciate a lot. Today, added in Live rocks...actually got it from a brudder who is clearing tank... here is what i did today..

1) got the live rocks home,

2) scrup it and removing unwanted 'debris'?

3) i got myself a bag of new sand grade 1, but too little,i agree..

4) wash the sand thorougly by stirring for 7 times

5) spread the sand unevenly, especially the centre portion where i placed the live rocks.

6) i spread the live rocks on top of the sand.. not touching any of the glass except the bottom.

7) fix it a Mh lite that i got from a brudder, and another 4 ft Jebo PL lite ( 4 tubes U-shape, 55 watt each, each stating 10000k daylight..

what i planned to do,,

1) measure the sanity tomolo, today no hydrometer ( actually i dip my finger into the water to taste if it is salty enugh. eeeks. bo bian, hydrometer havent buy

so, since my LR is used in a marine tank b4, should i throw in the prawn for cycling? pls note im using a totally new canister filter...

I think im caught here, can anyone tell me what to do? just wait for a couple of weeks b4 testing the ANN?

regards

appreciating yeo

[jervismun]

Aiyo bro... u should make sure your salinity in the tank is right before adding the LR... now your LR may already be Dead Rock... hopefully your salinity is not too far from 1.020 - 1.025 range. There's no way our tongue can tell... lol

How long were the LR been exposed to air from the bro's tank to yours? You use freshwater to wash and scrub LR?

You can already start testing other parameters, mainly pH and A N N every 3 days. Don't wait one month then only test, lol.

[Qxnviolet]

Maybe you can get this stick on Seachem Ammonia detector, im too lazy to measure the ammonia lever, so just rely on that as an indication. What i did was to wait till the ammonia indicator indicate an unsafe level and then wait for it to fall again to undectable before i did any measurement. Its for lazy people like me... Oh, btw, you should really get a hydrometer.

[jervismun]

Maybe you can get this stick on Seachem Ammonia detector, im too lazy to measure the ammonia lever, so just rely on that as an indication. What i did was to wait till the ammonia indicator indicate an unsafe level and then wait for it to fall again to undectable before i did any measurement. Its for lazy people like me... Oh, btw, you should really get a hydrometer.

So that Seachem thingy really works? Em... wanted to get one for my Nano last time... perhaps can get one... yeah test kits are very time consuming especially when u have 8 differents tests to conduct at one shot.

[barnacle]

u taste the water to check the salinity???

better get the rite equipment first.

for new tank i suggest check water para weekly

rather then monthly.

If possible change water 5% weekly after cycle.

[sky107line]

u taste the water to check the salinity???

better get the rite equipment first.

for new tank i suggest check water para weekly

rather then monthly.

If possible change water 5% weekly after cycle.

You're absolutely right dude! By looking at your avatar I believe it can also change the water parameter to haywire No heart feeling bro.He..he.

[derrickyeo]

hi, bro, me again

hehe, today, add in the salt le,,, wa, machiam nvr ending..the water nvr get salty enugh... finalli after abt an packet or plus,, now managed to get the rite sanity..1.024.

But i discovered, my weipro skimmer, do i need to connect and air tubr to it? coz,, there is a hole for air tube... if i let air go in, the output will be full of small tiny bubbles,,,air.. which i believe is too much for the tank. if i close the hole,, the skimmer like nvr skim anything leh.. no bubbles... or do i need to moniter a few days for the skimmer to see if it produce any dirt?

No foul smell of LR so i think they are quite ok.. wa.. getting impatient le,, but keeping myself, relax relax.....hmm... now i let the tank runs for a few days,,then i measure the A N N? if all if ok,then i put in one or two livestocks? am i rite? thanks a lto for all yr adivse......

regards

[hondaker]

hi, bro, me again

hehe, today, add in the salt le,,, wa, machiam nvr ending..the water nvr get salty enugh... finalli after abt an packet or plus,, now managed to get the rite sanity..1.024.

But i discovered, my weipro skimmer, do i need to connect and air tubr to it? coz,, there is a hole for air tube... if i let air go in, the output will be full of small tiny bubbles,,,air.. which i believe is too much for the tank. if i close the hole,, the skimmer like nvr skim anything leh.. no bubbles... or do i need to moniter a few days for the skimmer to see if it produce any dirt?

No foul smell of LR so i think they are quite ok.. wa.. getting impatient le,, but keeping myself, relax relax.....hmm... now i let the tank runs for a few days,,then i measure the A N N? if all if ok,then i put in one or two livestocks? am i rite? thanks a lto for all yr adivse......

regards

for the weipro skimmer, there should be a hard tubing attached to the air inlet, this will prevent water from leaking out when u turn off the pump to the skimmer, there's no need to connect any air pumps there, the required amount of air will be automatically sucked in if you use a strong enough pump

as for the foul smell, its pretty subjective, i didnt notice any foul smell when i cycled my tank, but rule of thumb is to wait at least a month before adding livestocks, but reefers are putting them in from as fast as 1 wk after start of cycling, so i guess if your water parameters shows signs of nitrate, it would mean that the bacterias required for the nitrifying process have in fact colonized the LRs

from there, slowly, i repeat, slowly add in the livestocks, reason is to let the bacterias to multiply enough to take care of the increase in bio load, at the same time

hope this helps

[derrickyeo]

hi kind brudders

i got myself a set of test kits, for Ca, Ph, NO3, NO4, etc.. it is a multi test kit i got for 60 bucks from the marine lfs in pasir ris fish farm..

Havent try it, coc,,dunw an to waste the thingy yet. hehe... got a few questions... Have already checked,, my water sanity is 1.023, the liverocks quite ok as there is no smell when i lift up to check. I have a serparate sump tank, 2 ft by 1 ft, i think i am going to put next to my tank, will place another power head to direct water into the sump, and place SA2014 venturi driven skimmer hand on filter, onto the new sump. i faced this probelm now..

My SA2014 venturi driven skimmer is driven by ah ahiem pump, but when it is in operation, a lot of air bubbles come out from the output pipe into the tank, causing a lot of tiny small air bubbles into the tank. i just cant get rid of the airbubbles.. when i adjust the valve for the skimmer, to reduce the air bubbles, the water level in the skimmer raises a lot and actualli overflow onto the top of the skimmer. How to adjust this? is it that my ahiem pump is too strong? i dunno the power for the ahiem pump as i got it from a fellow bro last time, and the label has torn off. is there any brudders staying near hougang? can come over to have a look and comment on my setup?

I also plan to diy a phosprate reactor, using acrylic, i have the materials to do it but i need more expert advise to diy it. As for calcium reactor, is it a must to attached CO2 tank to it? and have two outlet at the top of the calcium reactor?" hmm,i planned to start my marine tank operation abt 3 wks later, so need to plan my diy phosprate and calcium reactor. Any advise? thanks a lot brudders for reading my lengthy message.

regards

[hondaker]

weipro skimmers comes with a sponge to fit at the outlet, is it still there?

the sponge will trap the air bubbles before the water is let out into the tank, if it is gone, maybe you could fit a sock over it or something similar

[derrickyeo]

hmm. okie.. i already try to put a sponge at the output but then the water level in the skimmer rises rapidly, to the top.. i think could it be my power head too strong? i cant adjust the valves at the tube b4 the output outlet becoz no matter how hard i try, the level still rises.. i think,,i just get a 2 ft so call sump tank but put the skimmer inside... haiz... hard to make everything perfect.. but,,nvm.. i still one month to play with the equipment.. haha...thanks bro.. anymore kind advise, pls comment..

[hondaker]

haha, since i am using weipro also, can advise on certain issues

when u say you cant adjust the water outlet, does it mean that the knob cannot be turned physically, or that the water output doesnt change no matter how much you turn the knob

for my 2011, i find that the knob can get tough at times, need quite a lot of strength to turn it, maybe something is stuck at the knob mechanisam

i suggest doing monthly maintenence on the skimmer, as in taking it out, and clean away all the algaes, dirt, etc

only the bottom plate i have no idea how to clean

hope this helps

[derrickyeo]

Hi brudders.

...'busy for a whole week le,, just test my parameters;

can anyone tell me the suitable reading for ?

1) PH is 1

2)NH4/NH3 is 0.3

3NO2 is 0.1

4)KH6 degree dKH

5NO3 is 0

6)PO4 0.5

7)Ca is more than 400... after tat i nvr test le,, scare test kit not enugh.

i believe my Ca is very high.. will do the test again next week. mean while, kindly advise.. thanks bro..

thanks man.... browse thru the site,, like nvr spotted any tat says the correct parameters..either i missed it or i pah jiao.. haaha..

[bawater]

Hi derrick,

Your multitest won't really give accurate results- just a gauge.

Apart from the pH (1)? the rest are ok for a 7day old tank. You still haven't begun to cycle. But if you have just made the saltwater - its more like pH 8-8.3

calcium at 400ppm is fine.

After your cycle you may need to bump up your kH.

You can put in livestocks slowly after you reach ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0, In about 20-30 days.

That's also why individual test kits are better, it allows you to monitor just a single parameter to what you like if you dose something.

you need at least a test kit that can test for pH range levels 7-9.

Your ideal would be within 8.0-8.3 or 8.4. (not more than 8.6)

[derrickyeo]

thanks for replying. i did not use the market prawn method. i bought a bottle of bacteria tablets and i had put in the dosage twice.. abt 3 days ago... so,,hmm.. still the same rite? aniway, i certainly will wait for at least 3 to 4 weeks b4 i test the water again. will continue to throw in the tablet bacteria as recommended.. thansk bro